30-06 Reduced velocity loads

[Centaur 1]

Ok, I know that I'm not using a cast bullet, but you guys are some of the most knowledgeable tinkerers that I've come across. I have a box of Speer .308" 130 grain hot-cor flat nose bullets that I bought to use in my 30-30's. I loaded these bullets using RL-7, I had great success with my Marlin 336, but in my Rossi Rio Grande they'ree only so-so. Now I mostly use cast or FTX in them, so I had the idea of using these 130 grain bullets in my 30-06, unfortunately I can't seem to find data. From my limited experience I believe that RL-7 should work well in a slightly reduced load at around 2400-2500 fps. Everything I'm finding is 3000 fps or better, which is too fast for this bullet. Has anyone done anything similar? I'm not sure where to start my powder charge.

[Blammer]

rl7 no experience sorry.

30gr of IMR3031 works nicely with jwords, not exactly reduced but with that light a bullet it will seem like it.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Try calling Alliant, they may be able to give you the data you need.

[garandsrus]

I use 13gr Red Dot for cast or jacketed in a 30-06. This load has been around for a bunch of years. I mostly shoot 150gr bullets but I would think the lighter ones would be fine also.

[Centaur 1]

I tried contacting Alliant since all of their data uses Speer bullets, but he won't comment on anything other than full power loads. I contacted Speer and he told me to keep the velocity at a 30-30 level with that bullet, again no data. I would have thought that with the recent trend for reduced recoil loads, and since they're sister companies, that they would have played around with this combo. I've seen where several people use powders like 4227, 4759 and 5744. Reloader 7 is right down with those powders on the burn rate chart, and I've used it in my 30-06 with 170 grain cast boolits. Hopefully someone who's tried this will give some input.

[felix]

The larger the company the more runaround you get. It's not intentional per individual employee, but the division of service within the company via efficiency "experts" is now commonplace. Some companies have whole sections for customer service, but you can never count on it every time you make a call. Alliant is now a full "military" company and will be very lawyer oriented via its internal need-to-know rules. RCBS and Dillon, for examples, are rare and are still left autonomous by someone's decree. I typically hang the phone up when I have to go through an automated switchboard. ... felix

[Centaur 1]

Alliant is now a full "military" company and will be very lawyer oriented via its internal need-to-know rules. RCBS and Dillon, for examples, are rare and are still left autonomous by someone's decree. I typically hang the phone up when I have to go through an automated switchboard. ... felix

I know that Alliant is a huge military contractor. When I worked for Lockheed Martin, Alliant manufactured the solid rocket motors we used on our Titan 4 rocket as well as the Shuttle SRB's. Everything we did was governed by ITAR(International Traffic in Arms Regulations) regulations. I wouldn't think that need-to-know rules would extend all the way down to giving out load data, but who knows.

On the other hand, more hunters are realizing the benefits of "managed recoil" ammunition. When it comes to handloading, the only readily available information is using H4895. You'd think a company as large as ATK would combine resources between Alliant, Speer and Federal to create a market for their products.

[single shot jimmy]

The main thing here is a lack of accuracy with the given components with out a lot of testing. Big companies don't want to hear you complain about poor accuracy. Add the fact some reduced loads cause improper burn. That is a lot of variables uncontrollable. Why would they waste time figuring this out for you when this represent a small amount of sales? Any company needs to reduce cost. Been drinking so take this with a happy smiley face.

[Frank46]

Try 40 grains of 4895 for a reduced load. You may have to start about 38 and work up to 40. Years ago I wrote to the NRA about such a load. Something quite similar was used in 300 meter target shooting. The bullet I used was a 125 sierra spitzer flat base and groups out of a smith corona 1903A3 were great. It was suggested that for best accuracy not to go over 40 grains. Frank

[longbow]

Take a look near the bottom of the second paragraph:

"The same 16 grain charge of #2400 is universal for all calibers as a starting load. It is mild and accurate in any larger military case from a 30-40 Krag or .303 British up through a 30-06 or 7.9x57, with standard weight bullets of suitable diameter for the caliber. This is my recommendation for anybody trying cast bullets loads for the first time in a military rifle without prior load development. I say this because #2400 is not "position sensitive", requires no fiber fillers to ensure uniform ignition, and actually groups better when you stripper-clip load the rifle and bang them off, rather than tipping the muzzle up to position the powder charge.

Similar ballistics can be obtained with other powders in any case from 7.62x39 to 30-06 size. If you don't have Hercules #2400, you can freely substitute 17 grains of IMR or H4227, 18 grains of 4198, 21 grains of Reloder 7, 24 grains of IMR 3031, or 25.5 grains of 4895 for comparable results."

You can read the rest here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

If you want a little more poop take a look at the "Deer and Long Range Target Load" near the bottom of the article. I guess even that is a little lighter than you were looking for but should give you a starting point anyway even though the article is about loading for cast boolits.

I have loaded using this info but not with RL7 so no personal experience there.

I hope that helps some.

Longbow

[Marlin Junky]

According to QuickLoad:

COL 3.0", Speer product No. 2007, 36.0 grains Re7, (and I think this Re7 data was before the recent increase of Nitro to the Re7 formula) for 31K PSI and 2458 fps from a 22" barrel. The maximum case capacity is shown as 68.2 grains of H20 (overflow).

MJ

[Centaur 1]

Thanks guy, I appreciate the info. MJ, thanks for looking that up. I've tried from 25 grains to 38 grains with a 170 grain cast boolit with no problems, and at 31K psi there's a room for a lot of error. That's probably very close to the velocity and pressure in a 30-30 with the same combo.

With all the data for H4895, who thinks the same info can be used with IMR4895? They might have started out as two different products, but I can't imagine they still are. I have a bottle of IMR and all the reduced data is for the H variety.