Economy of casting vs commercial lead bullets?

[Jtarm]

I am just starting to get back into reloading handgun ammo after a 15-year hiatus.

I used to cast, but got too time-challenged and sold off all my equipment. I hadn't planned to start casting again cause the time factor has only gotten worse, but after pricing commercial bullets, I might have to make time.

So anyone got a SWAG at how much you're save on average by casting your own? I know there's many factors involved. Let's assume .430 handgun bullets with commercial alloy vs smelting scrap. And yes, I know the start-up costs are a factor, but I just priced the Hornady swaged .430s on Midway and they came out to 13-cents apiece. IIRC, I calculated about 2-cents apiece for my cast bullets back in the 90s.

Much thanks!

James

[Lizard333]

I get my lead for free. I still don't have any problems getting WW's, so I trade for stuff I need. This only incurs the cost of shipping. I can load 100 44 mag rounds for $4.50.

Sounds like you answered your own question earlier. 2 cents is cheaper than paying full price for commercial cast.

This all depends on how you are going to get your lead. Even paying for lead is cheaper than buy commercial cast. Free lead makes it even better.

[reloader28]

Most of my molds average about $70 apiece.
Thats about how much 500 commercial boolits cost.
I got my lead for free. I figure that after 500 boolits, they are basically free.

[gray wolf]

No question it's cheaper and it's fun and relaxing, did I say rewarding ?
BUT, if time is a factor and your always rushed it could add unwanted pressure to doing
the casting and there goes the fun. BUT,BUT, even if you can put aside a few hours and say " This time is mine " "I own it and I am going to cast" As long as you plan to shoot enough to make it worth while.
Bottom line--go for it, If after a short time it doesn't work out the equipment will still be like new and you can get most of the cost back.
Your not getting younger Eh.

[MT Chambers]

Don't forget that you can cast to whatever hardness that YOU want, and of a design that YOU want, most commercial cast are too hard and of a design that may not suit your gun or your requirements. I'd cast my own even if it cost as much as commercial.

[41 mag fan]

Just the hobby alone is worth te price if it cost more than commercial

[btreanor]

I believe that the main attraction to casting is the quality of the product. My experience is that most of the commercial cast boolits are too hard and a bit undersized. By controlling the casting and sizing process, I can be sure of a quality product that is more accurate and won't lead my barrels.

[root]

I cast and load 45 acp for about 70 a 1000.

My friend buys his 45 acp @ 239.99 plus shipping.

Like the one guy said after about 500 casts it's just your time.

I too get my lead for free.

I buy those cheap lee 6 cavity molds I know alot ofguys bash them but I do volume casting.
Anything not worthy gets re melted as they get many inspections from the casting to the loading. so a good amount may or may not get culled.
Also I run all my molds @ once so I have lead to size lube and load with only one or two lead castings a year.

[Wolfer]

I believe that the main attraction to casting is the quality of the product. My experience is that most of the commercial cast boolits are too hard and a bit undersized. By controlling the casting and sizing process, I can be sure of a quality product that is more accurate and won't lead my barrels.

My thoughts exactly.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I used to cast, but got too time-challenged and sold off all my equipment. I hadn't planned to start casting again cause the time factor has only gotten worse, but after pricing commercial bullets, I might have to make time.

If ya ain't got the time, ya probably got the money.
Don't buy the hard commercial cast bullets when
there are a few vendors here that sell cast bullets,
that are alloyed, sized, and lubed to your specification,
They will give you much better performance than the
hard cast from the likes of Midway.

My rule of thumb for value of my castboolits.
base value is $5 per hundred for labor and capital equipment.
add $1 per hundred for each 50 grains of alloy per boolit.

SO I value my 44 cal boolit 240 gr. at 10¢ each.
Jon

[cbrick]

James, many people cast for the simple reason it's cheaper and no doubt it is.

But there is another reason for casting and it's not cost. I would still shoot nothing but my own cast even if I could get jacketed bullets for free. When I cast for any of my guns I get exactly what I want/need. Bullet style, BHN, size . . .Everything, not what someone else wants to sell me.

But there is yet another reason I cast. For good or bad, whether it works or even if it doesn't and I have to start all over from scratch there is the fact that I made it with my own two hands. I have won State Championships in long range revolver and that is nice, a good feeling but by far the best and longest lasting feeling is the fact that I did it with my cast bullets. I made them myself and they beat the very best jacketed bullets that money can buy.

There's other reasons too, time I get to spend casting is very relaxing even therapeutic. I enjoy using my tools and equipment. I've been known to get to the range just so I would need to cast more.

If you spend $100.00 on a mold for a certain gun you can have bullets for that gun for the rest of your life, your not subject to any mfg dropping your favorite bullet or changing it or when they decide to do another run of that bullet. That in itself makes the cost of a good mold sound kinda cheap. As long as you have powder & primers you can have as many loaded rounds as you want for the cost of the powder & primers.

Lot's of reasons to cast, even that it's cheaper.

Rick

[Bigslug]

The hardware (molds and pot) will eventually pay for itself, and the software (lead) can be obtained for little or nothing with the right connections. TIME is going to be the real expense. At the very least, I would be looking at molds with at least four cavities for pistol applications, and possibly run them two at a time. A pot with a generous capacity is also worth thinking about as a time-saver if you're wanting to work in serious volume, as I've found that twenty pounds goes pretty fast when running 600 to 1000 grains a pour.

Then there is the time involved with lubing them up and loading them.

Then there is the time involved with figuring out what each of your guns needs. Once this is figured out, you're done, but if you have to do it for lots of guns, you could be looking at a serious ordeal. On the one hand, gas checks add a couple cents per slug, but on the other, they might reduce the time you spend fiddling around with hardness and sizing die diameters.

It comes down to how much you feel your time is worth and how much you like the casting/loading process.

[SlippShodd]

If ya ain't got the time, ya probably got the money. Jon

Several years ago, that was exactly my line of thinking. I was making great money, the equipment and lead supply were taking up valuable space in my shop, I still enjoyed the reloading... I figured I could afford to buy all the bullets I needed to satisfy my needs and I would sell off all my casting gear. I walked into a LGS and looked at the price of my baseline bullet, the 200 gr. .45 SWC, made by the most prominent local supplier, Oregon Trail/Laser-Cast. The sticker shock made me realize that no matter how much I thought I could afford to buy commercial cast, I was too inherently cheap to pay that price (currently $64.25/500). At some point when I wasn't paying attention, the price of lead had doubled and commercial cast (as well as other consumer goods using lead) were no longer economical. I decided to find the time to continue casting for my needs; the equipment had long since paid for itself in the quarter century I had been casting, the lead supply had always been free (still is) aside from solder or pewter for tinning.
Now several years later, having walked away from the moneyed stress that prevented me from playing with all the toys I'd acquired, more interested in my mental and physical health than the filthy lucre, I find those decisions to have been far more advantageous than I could have imagined. Not only do I produce quality ammo on the cheap, I've found new satisfaction in other aspects of the hobby, including some justification for hanging out around here. :) The cost savings are significant, but not the only reason to keep on pouring your own.

mike

[MT Gianni]

If you paid a dollar per lb for lead. 250 gr boolits = 28 to the lb or 4 cents each [7000 gr per lb]. Only you can figure in your time.

[odis]

So far I have been casting for just a couple of years. My lead source is WWs free. I have cast enough boolits from that source to pay for all of my casting equipment. I also enjoy it and I'm casting slugs that would be hard to buy plus they perform great. Win win for me.

[Reloader06]

Do we sound like a bunch of "Enablers" or what? Come on in the water is fine!!! Seriously, a not so good day casting is better than a good day at work.

Matt

[PS Paul]

Some great answers. Like Lizard posted, I too get most of my lead AND some linotype for free. A mutually beneficial business arrangement I worked out some time ago..... I get powder and primers at less than wholesale, another business arrangement, so not factoring my time, after the cost of molds and the initial outlay for brass, I can load .357, .45 Colt and .38/9mm for about .04 per round. Great deal!

[40Super]

By casting my own now, I have been able to eliminate cleaning the leading out of several gun because I couldn't get big enough cast boolits from the commercial guys, plus they were mostly too hard to seal good. Now that I have my boolits sized plenty oversized for all my guns I don't have to clean much, just a wipe down + oil, I hated removing leading so I shot less, now I can have more fun shooting.

As long as you can get your lead for a normal price(or free) you will cast your own for at least 1/2 price of buying( most likely closer to 1/4 cost). Equipment pays for itself pretty quick, even if you only shoot 1 or 2 calibers.

[Centaur 1]

I don't agree with putting a price on my time. Casting is a hobby that I enjoy just as much as shooting. Nobody seems to put a value on their time when they come home with a stringer of catfish, or put a deer in the freezer. Casting is a cheap hobby compared to buying a boat or paying for a hunting lease.

[fcvan]

James, I sent you a private message. Frank

[762 shooter]

To the OP's question:

Mt Gianni has established a base metal cost of $0.04 per 250 grain boolit, and that is at retail $1/lb cost. Less metal costs, the numbers get better.

Electricity is probably a nonstarter at an average $0.12/ kwh.

Molds, furnaces, propane cookers, pots, lubers, sizers and all that other junk amortizes out to zero because you will be casting for life. You might throw in a little for propane but not much.

Now for the "your time" costs.

You may only count your time as worth in two instances:

1. If you are not earning money as a result of your casting time.

2. You are casting as a business.

Sitting in front of a TV or Computer does nothing for you. I submit that you should count your time casting as negative cost because you are doing something you enjoy, is therapeutic and it has real end value. None of this "My time is worth $50.00/hr because otherwise I would be sitting on my fat patoutie" garbage.

Don't even count all the advantages such as; custom alloy, custom lube, custom bullet designs, custom sizing, and pride of accomplishment.

Just my perspective.

762

[dverna]

I understand completely. At one point in my life I flew over 100,000 miles a year and ran two companies. I barely had time to shoot. I stopped casting for many many years.

I am now retired (retarded??) and am getting back into casting. The economics are there - plus there is the pride of making your own. I am also a prepper so I believe in being self-sufficient. Molds will last for as long as I will live and as others have shown will be paid for in short order.

I still have 10's of thousand of commercial cast bullets. Most are for the pistols but I am really excited about casting for a new .308 tactical gun I am building.

My advice is to cast your own. But unlike a previous poster, if I could get free commercial bullets that is all I would shoot. I do not see any huge advantage to a cast bullet besides cost. I must be lazy I guess - but I am cheap. I can shoot a lot more with cast reloads

There are a ton of good people on this site that will help us along.

[Cherokee]

Go for it, I doubt you'll regret it.

[fredj338]

If you use commercial alloy, you don't save anything IMO. At $2.30/# for commercial alloy, 200gr 45acp will run you $67 in alloy, throw in another $2 for lube, call it $70/K. Bought in 2K quantities, I can have them delivered to my door for $77/K. SO to save $7, I am not spending 3-4hrs fo casting & sizing/lubing. Casting only makes sens for me if I can get alloy around $1/# or for bullets I can not purchase.
I don't put a time/cost element on my relaoding or casting, just like I don't for my shooting. It's a hobby that can save me money so I can shoot more or shoot more expensive calibers. I wouldn't shoot enough 44mag to be really good with one if I had to buy factory ammo. My cast bullets fit my guns better than most commercial, but I am not buying commercial alloy anytime soon.

[Fathersalt]

I have a feeling I am going to be the odd man out here. There is nothing and I do mean no thing that I do involving time that I dont equate directly to a monetary value.
Not to sound whiney but here it is. After my son was born I realized that the most valuablething I could give him as a father was my time. To be honest, its because my father didnt.
Now, I had to say that to say this. When I am casting bullets or smelting all I see is dollar signs. That is my goal, to make money. Because, simply it is the only way I can justify doing it. Afterall, it is costing me irreplaceable, invaluable time with my son and wife.
On the back side, is the fun part. It is, just like hunting, fishing, shooting, geocaching,reloading or camping very therapeutic in too many ways to address. Most importantly as my son gets older all the gear and equipment and guns and rods and STUFF, along with the know how and skill sets get passed along. That cant be bought. So, I fully intend on making money in exchange for spending something that cant be bought, time.
Watch me buy a case of wolf steel case .45 ammo but sell my cast boolits at a net net profit.
I am a really poor writer, I hope I have made sense.

[Jtarm]

Awesome, thanks for all the replies, folks!

[Harter66]

I'm disappointed, not 1 of us said " nope it ain't 1 cent cheaper because you're going to end up shooting a lot more."

For me it is time vs money also. My kids are grown and scattered to the winds. I am raising 2 granddaughters. I will agree that time is everything. I learned today that I may get layed off, that letter will soon be out,so I'll have an extra 20-30 hrs a week for a while but no money. So here's the deal those 2 lil'girls hang out while I prep brass and sort range scrap. I shoo them out when I'm loading, casting or doing big melts. They go along on range trips too and even "help" w/the berm sifting . The GF is into it too. So when I'm casting ,melting,prepping,loading or scrounging,I'm gaining that Quality time w/family . Just like when my kids were little and I loaded w/them and did all the hunting and camping.

I loaded 45 Colts,38s,357s,9s for real close to $5.50/box,vs 35 for Colts,20/357, 15 for 38s an 9s.

[youngda9]

It's a hobby that I enjoy. I like to shoot a lot and the only way I'll be able to shoot as much as I want is to shoot my cheap cast rounds. Win-Win all around.

A man's got to have his hobbies.

[fcvan]

I always figured my time was worth time and a half as extra hours were generally available at work. Now, I'm retired and my time is priceless AND I have lots more of it! So, if I'm doing something that takes me away from casting loading and shooting I feel robbed. What's that dear? Yes, I'll get the trash to the curb. Sorry, honey do list, then casting loading and shooting. The misses likes to shoot, gotta get her into reloading. Right now, she's the darnedest brass picker upper I know, usually getting 1000 pieces picked up before we start shooting. Now that's what I call making money with this hobby!

[A pause for the COZ]

Even if you buy your lead it comes out cheaper.
Figure 45 acp. Cost about $45 for 500 bullets. 45/500=0.09 each

I buy WW ingots for about $1.10 a pound shipped. Some times a little more some times a little less.
There are 7000 gr in a pound. 225 gr in a 45 acp bullet. 7000/225= 31 bullets per pound. 1.10/31=0.035 each or $17.5 for a box of 500.

[Dragoon454]

I had the same question initially and then got to doing some research. My motive was pure economics as I have gotten to the point I almost could not afford to shoot anymore due to layoffs and having a significant decrease in income. I shoot a lot of 9mm and always shot the copper colored bullets. I was paying about $0.08/bullet for the J-word kind and most commercial cast I was finding was about the same price so why bother. I started looking into casting and called in some favors and got some really good deals on wheel weights. With the current WW I have on hand my cost per 125gr .358 bullet is less than a half cent. Well luck and favors can't last forever, and most local tire shops already save their WW for others so I checked with a local metal recycler. They sell WW for $0.75 per lb. Figuring 20% waste with clips, zinc/steel, etc. my cost for a 125gr .357 bullets still comes out to less than 2 cents, plus I think its a fun hobby in itself.

[Jtarm]

Well, as if all these replies weren't enough, I was digging through my shed last night and found small supplies of these LBT boolits I cast years ago.
Left is the .431 280 gn WFN. Two on the right are .431 230 gn Ogival Wadcutters. I got a bit misty-eyed.
Like I said, I sold off all my equipment, so my first mold purchase will be the .431 Ogival Wadcutter in 4-cavity. Not cheap, but like they say, buy quality and you only cry once.

55487

[Shiloh]

Most of my molds average about $70 apiece.
Thats about how much 500 commercial boolits cost.
I got my lead for free. I figure that after 500 boolits, they are basically free.

I Agree.
Free boolits are very appealing to me. WHile recovering from new knee surgery, I went to the range a lot. This after balance, confidence and mobility improved. The cost of 1000 factory boolits would have been around $80 shipped. This is just in .38 boolits alone. Went through the better part of a pound of Unique.

The savings paid for powder, primers, and subsidized gas money to the range. I enjoy casting my own boolits

SHiloh

[gwilliams2]

I cast and load 45 acp for about 70 a 1000.

My friend buys his 45 acp @ 239.99 plus shipping.

Like the one guy said after about 500 casts it's just your time.

I too get my lead for free.

I buy those cheap lee 6 cavity molds I know alot ofguys bash them but I do volume casting.
Anything not worthy gets re melted as they get many inspections from the casting to the loading. so a good amount may or may not get culled.
Also I run all my molds @ once so I have lead to size lube and load with only one or two lead castings a year.

I just want to know where all of the free lead is... I did manage to get a 5 gallon bucket the other day in trade for a 12 pack of dos equis beer on ice in a 5 gallon bucket... Traded my bucket for thiers. Funny thing is that this same place has turned down $20 a bucket several times before...

[Shiloh]

My suggestion is to use a currency they can relate to. Sounds like you did.

Shiloh

[Roosters]

A story once of a man that smoked . Lady ask how long , packs per day and what they cost. He told her.
She added it up and told him the total . Then she told him if he hadn’t bought cigarettes with that money you could buy a new Ferrari now.
The man then ask her if she smoked . She replied no.
He then asked where’s your Ferrari. :shock:

It’s something about sticking a wheel weight in the end of a piece of brass that I cant get from store bought. And like the story the money will be spent anyway.
These 30-30s cost around 15 cents each. The time is like the money it also will be spent on something so I don’t count it in.



http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r600/threescrew3/S6300019.jpg

[prs]

I enjoy shooting. I know for sure that I shoot more as a hand loader than I did as a retail consumer. A whole big lot more!

prs

[David2011]

OK, I read through this a little faster than my usual pace but didn't notice any mention of the other benefits of casting. What about the stress relief, total escape from everything else while you're casting, fewer ulcers, replaces therapists, maybe even less medication because you're more content? That is the priceless side of "going to your room."

David

[jaysouth]

For me, reloading and casting are addtictions that got my soul and kept me from messing with cocaine or crack.

I really don't have any idea of how much money I am saving, if any. It's just an expression of self-dependence for me

On the other hand, cocaine might be cheaper than a gun/reloading/casting/hunting addiction.

[Digger]

OK, I read through this a little faster than my usual pace but didn't notice any mention of the other benefits of casting. What about the stress relief, total escape from everything else while you're casting, fewer ulcers, replaces therapists, maybe even less medication because you're more content? That is the priceless side of "going to your room."

David

Big agreement on that ..... "are you going out to the shed again ?" .... "yes dear !" ..:rolleyes: