shooting 30-30 gc bullet w/o gc??

[Walter Laich]

Friend has gotten his old 30-30 out to use in cowboy shooting = wimp loads.

All we can find are gc molds in 150-170 gr range--really haven't looked hard for molds (I'll be the caster for him)

if speed is kept below 1500 fpm can we do without gas check or will we get gas cutting?

thanks
walt

[Harter66]

I think there's a sticky about this.......... short answer yes "gallery"loads can be shot w/o checks. Have you looked at moulds for the 32cal pistols? 310-314 or something for 30 carbine a 100 gr heavy weight? I suggest those for plain base boolits. It also isn't to difficult to remove a GC shoulder leaving a plain based boolit w/a heavy base band,if you need the boolit weight for steel targets.

[Ben]

Here is a plain base .30 cal. mold for the 30-30 ( intended for use in Cowboy Shooting ) :

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/452042/rcbs-2-cavity-cowboy-bullet-mold-30-150-cm-30-caliber-309-diameter-150-grain-flat-nose

You'll get much better accuracy with a plain base bullet than a gas check bullet design with you leaving the g/c off the bullet.

[fcvan]

I would think that a proper fitting boolit, the right powder, lube, and at lower velocity would be fine without a check. I started punching my own with a CheckMaker tool so I don't worry about the need for checks anymore. Even so, the load you are suggesting is similar to the ballistics of the 32-40 Ballard (or Winchester) which if I remember correctly was a plain based lead boolit over black powder. If they could do it then, it can be done today. Frank

[RU shooter]

They can . Best results accuracy wise are found if the speed is about the same as a 22lr in the 900-1100 fps range. Try about 5-6 grs of Bullseye with a 150 gr bullet.

[popper]

A Lee mould and cut out one of the GC bands, leaves you the choice. I had better luck with PB than checkless. Past 50 it was terrible.

[Wayne S]

From what I've seen of the "Cowboy" shooting, all the targets are relitively close so MOA accucary isn't mandatiory and they shoot a lot. Since you are going to be the caster I would look at a multi cavity mold like http://noebulletmolds.com/orders/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=256 this one. or get a GC version for "other" shooting like hunting. OR one of the lighter wt. bullets and if it's a SP design, just use a SWC top punch to flatten the nose for the tube mag.

[Jack Stanley]

Of course you can Walter , I fire a thousand or so every year just not in a 30WCF , though a few hundred are shot using that casing . My gallery load for the aught six is a hundred fifty-five grain bullet sized at .311" with just over eight grains of Unique . No gas check used and very minimal lube and still very accurate at fifty yards and more .

I recently tried eighteen grains of 2400 behind a 311466 without a gas check . The rifle went through over a hundred rounds with no leading .

There is a thread about "mouse fart" loads somewhere around here that is very informative on low velocity lead . Of course you know that fit is king when playing in a yard like this .

Jack

[Walter Laich]

Thanks,
I was starting out on the cheap for him looking at the Lee molds--I know, but with the sizer die, lead, nose punch, mold cost and such I was trying to get him in cheaply.

I've had good luck with Lee 6-gang pistol molds but also use Lyman 4-gang iron and even have a couple of Mihec's in the lot.

Know once we get into it and he trys his hand he'll have enough data to make an informed descision.

walt

[1Shirt]

Was fortunate enough to get one of RD's 30 165 with gascheck/and one without gas check. Both shoot cowboy act loads well including the one for GC but without the check, but the non gascheck has an accuracy edge at 50yds.
1Shirt!

[res45]

Works for me in my old Sav. 30-30 pump gun I use the Lee 170 gr. GC RNFP they drop close to .311 but since I don't apply a GC I don't bother running them through the sizer,I just apply two light coats of Lee Alox/JPW lube and load over 7.0 gr. Alliant Red Dot.

10 shots at about 40 yds.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/rhsikes/res45/scan0001-1-1.jpg

[geargnasher]

Whether or not you get gas-cutting depends a lot on chamber neck clearance and how far the boolit has to move before it is able to obturate (cork-up) the bore.

There's a good thread on this in the levergun section regarding .30-30 without checks, and there are some extremely good suggestions for getting good, clean, accurate, mid-velocity loads with GC-designed boolits.

Gear

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Works for me in my old Sav. 30-30 pump gun I use the Lee 170 gr. GC RNFP they drop close to .311 but since I don't apply a GC I don't bother running them through the sizer,I just apply two light coats of Lee Alox/JPW lube and load over 7.0 gr. Alliant Red Dot.



10 shots at about 40 yds.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/rhsikes/res45/scan0001-1-1.jpg

I do the same as cast they drop .310 i lube 2 light coats and load

i have done it with about 17-19 gr h4895 results like above but i am working on power pistol loads for it now , when i find the right charge for my gun i expect they will be like the unique load maybe a touch less powder

the pistol powder is burning much cleaner than the reduced rifle loads , and i load on a turret so the powder drops and it indexes past and i seat the bullet

[popper]

1shirt - non gascheck has an accuracy edge at 50yds - what was your load and alloy? This is my next trial. I've tried 2400, Unique and H4895 with sorry accuracy, even @ 50.

[1Shirt]

Potter, I cast the plain base w/air drop wheel weights, BH about 14 on average I think. I size and lube at .311, and do it in a lube sizer. Trail boss works well, to about 11-1200, and small charges of unique, say starting with maybe 5 gr. and working up a grain at a time till you get accuracy. Be careful of the small charges however. I weigh all cast loads that are less than half a case full of powder on a dig. scale to prevent double charges, and highly recommend the practice. Takes a bit more time, but better safe than sorry.
1Shirt!

[1Shirt]

Sorry about that Popper! I guess being a potter made me do it bassackward.
1Shirt!

[popper]

No problem. I have to play guitar and bass to keep my fingers working so I can type.

[fcvan]

Popper, I hear you on that. I got carpal tunnel in my left wrist years ago. I stopped doing what caused it and played guitar every day for 5-15 minutes, basically did scales and riffs. 14 years later and the carpal tunnel is gone. That and my Clapton, BB King, and collection of other great blues players has enlarged considerably :)

[popper]

BB King Gave up on trying to do bends like he does.

[fcvan]

Wow, we got 180 degrees from the original question regarding gas check boolit without the check. Probably ought to keep things gun related instead of guitars . . . Or meld the two . . . I think I need to cut down a .50 BMG case down for a little slide guitar action :)

[Rayc384]

Is the rifle going to be used in long range cowboy shooting? If it is a SASS club doing the shooting the .30-30 cannot be used in the regular matches.

Make sure of the rules, it can save a lot of frustration.

[geargnasher]

Is the rifle going to be used in long range cowboy shooting? If it is a SASS club doing the shooting the .30-30 cannot be used in the regular matches.

Make sure of the rules, it can save a lot of frustration.

Good point, I was going to bring it up but Walter has a SASS number in his sig line so I figured he'd know. They won't let us use smaller than .32 caliber here in regular matches, but occasionally there are some side matches and unsanctioned, impromptu fun matches involving everything from .22 Derringers to buffalo rifles so those that have them can break up the five pistol, five pistol, ten levergun, four coach gun routine.

Gear

[Centaur 1]

Thanks,
I was starting out on the cheap for him looking at the Lee molds--I know, but with the sizer die, lead, nose punch, mold cost and such I was trying to get him in cheaply.

I've had good luck with Lee 6-gang pistol molds but also use Lyman 4-gang iron and even have a couple of Mihec's in the lot.

Know once we get into it and he trys his hand he'll have enough data to make an informed descision.

walt

To keep things cheap, you could get a Lee 2-cavity and ream out the gas check step with a 5/16" reamer. With mine I stopped just short of removing the entire gas check step, this creates one more lube groove.

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