Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook

[Gtek]

I have owned it for a couple and to be honest never looked at very well. I pulled the other day looking for a mold number and noticed something. Does everyone that has this book see that every bullet is sized to bore diameter? - "30-30 (sized to .308" dia.)" How many people do you think go down this road ? Just curious, most of us know better. Gtek

[largom]

The handbook is a good basic guide to get started casting and then you have this forum for the rest.

Larry

[runfiverun]

i have several rifles that i size to bore size and no larger.
why do you need a boolit bigger than your barell is?

[Gtek]

Larry to Larry- Been pouring a whole lot longer than I have had the book. I guess I was leaning into how many people have tried this after having THE BOOK and lead string the pipe or cannot hit the paper. We all know that a .30 cal. is always .308" and so on. Mr. RFR-my hat is off to you sir, I have not been able to secure that talent. Other than the Schuetzen stuffing I do, I kind of push it up in there to bore size. I have never had anything but bad/ugly out of (supposed) bore size at any speed over throwing it at them. I live in the world of 1600-2200 with hunting alloy mixture. My apologies if I have shown ignorance or offended anyone. Gtek

[HARRYMPOPE]

I know what you mean Gtek.its a data book not an accuracy book.My best shooting 30 BR i ever owned had a 1deg taper starting a .314 and i tapered the bullets to fit it in a bump die.It breech seating fit with no breech seating.A late buddy who held about every cast bullet record in CBA UNR BR class told me to "forget bore dimensions and fit as big a bullet as will chamber and fit the throat" I haven't found him wrong yet!


"The handbook is a good basic guide to get started casting and then you have this forum for the rest"

So far as i know the CBA-ASSRA and ISSA are the only registered cast bullet matches and are at a different level .Those competitors don't chat on forms much.Most of what i learned 20+ years ago from those guys is looked at as cutting edge on current 'net forums.This is a hobby forum and good fun but not where most competitors hang out.

[runfiverun]

once you have the angle of the throat covered and the base of the nose is touching the leade area the drive bands don't need to be grossly oversized.
there are other things like the thickness of the brass that will take up the extra room in the neck portion of the chamber.

[Bob Krack]

i have several rifles that i size to bore size and no larger.
why do you need a boolit bigger than your barell is?

Lamar,

Am I reading this wrong or am I missing something?

Whenever I DO size to fit a particular boolit to a particular firearm, I size to groove size or slightly larger. Bore sized nearly always results in leading to one degree or another for me.

Bob

[curator]

My success with cast boolits in most rifles came when I put away the Lyman book and joined the Cast Bullet Association. It is not bad for pistol cartridges (with the exception of .357 and .44 Magnum) but in most cases very poor for rifle cartridge data. Mostly their loads are too high velocity/pressure to work well. Their advise on bullet diameters is mostly undersize (like their molds). It has been a puzzle to me why Lyman over-simplifies the loading of cast bullets when this inevitably leads to poor performance for their customers. A large percentage of the reloaders at my gun club went down the Lyman road at some time in the past and gave up on cast bullets due to lack of success.

[Larry Gibson]

Agree with runfiverun; I have several rifles I also size at groove diameter or just slightly larger because hat size fits the throat. It is the throat size that is important. .311 is my "go to" size for .30 cals if I've not slugged the throats as many are that big. I will size .308, .309, .310 or .311. With a proper alloy and lube and a bullet sized to the throat I've not had leading upards of 2800+ fps.

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

yeah i wrote it wrong.
groove is what i meant.
i just can't see why you need a 360 sized boolit to obdurate a 358 diameter barell.

now if i were using black powder or seating the boolit into the rifling by hand then a groove diameter boolit would be appropriate.
it, of course ,would still need a small area at the base that filled the leade area.

[Bob Krack]

yeah i wrote it wrong.
groove is what i meant.
Whew, Lamar.....

I thought for a minute I was loosing my marbles (and I don't got many left as it is!).

Bob

[HangFireW8]

I have owned it for a couple and to be honest never looked at very well. I pulled the other day looking for a mold number and noticed something. Does everyone that has this book see that every bullet is sized to bore diameter? - "30-30 (sized to .308" dia.)" How many people do you think go down this road ? Just curious, most of us know better. Gtek

Some decades back the NRA published a bunch of research, serious research on cast boolit accuracy. They came to the conclusions: the more sizing the more possibility of decreased accuracy, and NRA 50/50 was the best all-around lube they could find at that time.

As a result Lyman started making molds at groove diameter or .001" larger.

Never mind that there are so many bores out there over specified size.

HF

[fouronesix]

I must be losing my mind! Even after multiple posts on this thread, the terms "bore diameter" and "groove diameter" keep being thrown around as if they were interchangeable. :veryconfu

I'm with the size-to-groove-diameter or slightly larger for smokeless crowd. Many older guns (no, not just older like an "antique" 1967 manufactured guns!) but old originals many times have very large simple throats and/or over-sized bore/groove dimensions. Those are the ones that require special attention to detail and may require over-sized bullets. Most modern chambers/throats/bore/groove dimensions are within fairly tight specs and don't require a .003-.004" over groove diameter sized bullets. In my experience that recipe for in-spec guns is problematic and does not yield magic accuracy and in some cases causes poorer accuracy and increased leading.

[beagle]

Kind of interesting on the reduced diameters. I started loading back in the late 50s and then Lyman's recommendation for most .30s was .311". Being as I was using a 310 tong tool and neck resizing, this caused me no end of hair pulling with difficult to chamber .30/06 rounds. In fact, it caused me to go into hock for a press that would FL resize and a#45 sizer. I've been all over the spectrum from .308-.311 sizing for the .30s and have found that .310" bullets work best for me in the .30s and that's where I stayed.

I know the NRA is probably right that bullets cast to the correct diameter are best with a minimum of sizing but unfortunately, we can't have moulds like that and have to take what we can get.

My druthers run to oversize moulds with the bullets sized to my diameter and checked for the correct sizing.

Guess I'm wrong but that's what works for me./beagle

[HangFireW8]

I must be losing my mind! Even after multiple posts on this thread, the terms "bore diameter" and "groove diameter" keep being thrown around as if they were interchangeable. :veryconfu

Sorry, I guess I was part of the problem there. I corrected my post.

In my little mind, there is a groove diameter and a land diameter, and together they make up a larger thing called a "bore". I realize that the term "bore" means the smaller diameter to most Americans... and the larger to most British.... except where it doesn't... [smilie=b:

[M-Tecs]

I know what you mean Gtek.its a data book not an accuracy book.My best shooting 30 BR i ever owned had a 1deg taper starting a .314 and i tapered the bullets to fit it in a bump die.It breech seating fit with no breech seating.A late buddy who held about every cast bullet record in CBA UNR BR class told me to "forget bore dimensions and fit as big a bullet as will chamber and fit the throat" I haven't found him wrong yet!


"The handbook is a good basic guide to get started casting and then you have this forum for the rest"

So far as i know the CBA-ASSRA and ISSA are the only registered cast bullet matches and are at a different level .Those competitors don't chat on forms much.Most of what i learned 20+ years ago from those guys is looked at as cutting edge on current 'net forums.This is a hobby forum and good fun but not where most competitors hang out.

That's the best information I have read in a while. Where do most of the competitors or gun builders hang out?

I am a Toolmaker by trade. I do barrel work on the side for NRA Highpower and Long Range shooter. I have all my reamers ground to my specs. I have a very good handle on what I want in a match rifle chamber but when it comes to cast bullet chambers I am basically clueless.

I am going to have Dave Kiff make me a 45/70, 45/100 and possibly a 33/47 or 38/55 reamer after I figure out what I what works the best for throats. I am looking for expert advice on throat design for cast bullet accuracy.

[1Shirt]

Like Bob Krack, I also am missing a few, so don't confuse me please!
1Shirt!