S. L, LR concept applied to 45/70?

[Elkins45]

So you know how many .22 lever, pump and bolt guns will feed shorts, longs or long rifles interchangeably? I was wondering if anybody had ever applied the same concept to a 45/70 lever gun to increase magazine capacity by shortening the cases? Would the gun need to be modified?

Just curious.

[Bullshop]

45/60 ?
Would likely have to modify the lifter.

[Jim]

If you shorten the case to make a .45 'shorty', you're going to have a problem with bullet jump.

[Lonegun1894]

I can think of another problem. The .45-70 case is tapered, so gets thicker as you get closer to the base. I think you would end up with one of three possibilities. Either a boolit that is too big and creates some interesting pressures as it swages down to bore size, a case that is too loose and doesn't line up in the chamber, or (if you were to custom make some extra thick walled cases in order to keep the case lined up, a boolit with some serious gas blow by in the time between when it leaves the case and reaches the rifling. However, I like the way you think. Is the .444 an actual straight walled case to allow .444/.44mag/.44spl, or is there another case that you could do this with that would work like that? There has to be something that could make your idea work without going to a wildcat round, or at least I would think there's some option.

[I'll Make Mine]

The .444 Marlin isn't much straighter than the .45-70 -- I see .017" of taper from the head to the mouth, where .45-70 has .025" taper. I think the closest you'll get to this kind of gun in a big bore is a .445 Super Mag (also shoots .44 Mag, .44 Special, .43 Russian) or a .454 Cassull (also shoots .45 Long Colt and .45 Short Colt); both of those are true straight wall cases in all lengths. The same would apply to .357 Max, .357 Mag, and .38 Special, or .327 Federal, .32 H&R Mag, and .32 S&W Long and Short.

With any of these, you'd need a lifter designed to accommodate the full range of COAL from the shortest case with a wadcutter, to the longest with the longest bullet that will fit a standard revolver cylinder (as a minimum maximum, so to speak; you might want to allow for bullets that couldn't be loaded in a revolver), and you'll have the issues with bullet jump from the shorter cases in all (not to mention a little blowby as the bullet traverses the distance from shorter case mouth to chamber throat located for longest case).

[Bullshop]

"""" I was wondering if anybody had ever applied the same concept to a 45/70 lever gun to increase magazine capacity by shortening the cases""""

Maybe if all you want is more rounds in the mag it would be simpler to go with a full length mag tube and rifle length barrel.
I have an 1886 Win rifle 50 cal with full length mag tube and it holds lots of ammo.
With the tube full its too heavy to carry.

[Box13]

.22s,l and lr are heeled boolits as such the space ahead of the brass case is filled with lead.45/70s are a standard design where the lead fits inside the case and is held close to the rifling.If you shorten the case the boolit will have to travel that extra distance without a tight fit.This will cause gas leakage and likely allow the boolit to cant inside the chamber just before entering the rifling this will in turn distort the boolit.A distorted boolit cant be good for accuracy.This does however give rise to the idea of "Heeled 45/70 boolits" in short cases...hmmm...Robin

[W.R.Buchanan]

Or you could just buy a Marlin 1894 in either .44 mag or .45 LC and get about the same preformance. They hold 10-12 rounds,

How many do you need to carry?

Randy

[bearcove]

My version is a rossi 92 in 454. Almost 45-70 power, 10 rds in mag tube.

The 16" barreled ones still hold 8 rds.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Suck it and see as my Grandfather used to say. Trim a couple of cases and start with a low pressure load with Trailboss maybe? I'd be making up a couple of dummy short rounds and see if they feed ok then pull the boolits with a kinetic hammer and load and try. Worst comes to the worst, you are just going to loase a couple of cases and have to clean up a messy chamber of blow by.

I think I'd start by measuring the case along it's length and actually seeing how big it is where you want to cut it, then cut where you reckon and measure the new neck's inside diameter.

You will end up with a cheap blackpowder measure at least, lol

[Elkins45]

Suck it and see as my Grandfather used to say.

????? That doesn't sound like something my Grandfather would ever have said.

I don't actually own a 45/70 lever gun. I was just thinking out loud.

[Four Fingers of Death]

????? That doesn't sound like something my Grandfather would ever have said.

I don't actually own a 45/70 lever gun. I was just thinking out loud.

'Suck it and see' is an old English expression. It basically means try it out.

I have a H&R Big Horn Commemorative Trapdoor Carbine. I have some well worn brass, I might dig them out and have a tinker.

Success or failure would depend a lot on how much of a step there is at the end of the chamber where the case normally ends. If there was any sort of a shoulder there, it would shave lead.

This is apart from any case size factors.

At least I won't have any feeding problems with my Trapdoor, :D

[MT Chambers]

My 45/70 Cowboy holds 9 rounds I believe, but you really shouldn't need many shots from such a big gun, one with such recoil, and the 45/70 is very receptive to reduced loads. Best bet would prolly be the .45 Colt's in a .454 Casull.

[runfiverun]

i thought it was valid enough of an idea to try some 375 supermag rounds in my 375 winchester.
three rounds somewhere on the back board [maybe?] was enough to stop that.
that was with jaxketed rounds,maybe cast would work better...