Need fatter boolits -- add more tin?

[ghh3rd]

I'm using WW +2% tin, and getting .459 - 4595 with a mold. I need .460 or more.

I understand that increasing the tin to 5% (like Lyman #2) should increase the diameter somewhat. Besides lapping or beagling, is there any way to get fatter boolits other than spending a fortune on tin?

Thanks,

Randy

[Catshooter]

Randy,

It's the lead that does alot of the shrinking, so anything you can do to lessen that amount in the alloy will give you less shrinkage.


Cat

[geargnasher]

I have better results with equal or less tin to antimony. Just adding tin way over the antimony content causes it's own problems. Look at getting some Rotometal's Superhard lead/antimony mix, or some CERTIFIED linotype, and add that to your WW. You can also do a good bit of size manipulation by adjusting alloy and mould temperature.

And then sometimes, you have to punt. Beagling works in some instances, especially with pistol boolits. Might work with your big .45s if the boolit nose is the right shape.

Gear

[runfiverun]

pressure pouring might gain you a little diameter too.
but antimony and tin combined will get you size pretty easily.
you can also lap a mold out .001 easily.

[Iron Mike Golf]

Use the minimum mold and melt temprature that gives you complete fill-out. The lower the temp of the boolit when it sets up, the less it will shrink as it cools to ambient temp.

Adding more tin (and/or antimony) may help a bit, but not as much as going from pure lead to #5. Adding more tin wil lower the melting point of the melt, letting you run the melt at a lower temp and maintain it as liquid.

I can't tell you how much help you can get this way from your starting point. Lyman Casting #3 might have some info. Mine is an hour away at my son's house.

Sounds like you don't really know how much more you need to increase the diameter, though.

[Lefty SRH]

"Beagle" tape, aluminum duct work tape worked wonders for my RCBS 35-200 mold. Suprisingly easy to do aswell.

[cbrick]

Just adding tin way over the antimony content causes it's own problems. Look at getting some Rotometal's Superhard lead/antimony mix, or some CERTIFIED linotype, and add that to your WW. Gear

Gear as usual is correct.

Far easier to gain the needed .001"+ with antimony. If you get some Super Hard it should take very little to gain your needed increase which means that it would be cost effective, much more so than the cost of Sn and running the Sn percentage way over the Sb percentage.

Add 1% Super Hard (by weight) to your WW+ 2% Sn alloy and see what they cast at, if a bit more is needed increase to 2% SH. Adding 1% SH to 20 pounds of your alloy is 0.2 pounds so only one pound of SH would treat 100 pounds of alloy or at 2% 50 pounds of your alloy.

As a side note Super Hard is 100% virgin foundry metals, not scrap or recycled so you know exactly what your adding to your alloy.

Rick

[cajun shooter]

Try adding some magnum shotshell pellets to your mix. A little at at a time will go a long way.

[grouch]

Try 20:1 alloy - it won't be fatter, but may bump up enough to work for you. The "putty plug" from F.W. Mann.
Grouch

[243winxb]

Add linotype, its high in antimony content.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I'm using WW +2% tin, and getting .459 - 4595 with a mold. I need .460 or more.

I understand that increasing the tin to 5% (like Lyman #2) should increase the diameter somewhat. Besides lapping or beagling, is there any way to get fatter boolits other than spending a fortune on tin? Thanks, Randy

How are you planning to size them ?
how about bumping them up ?
I've never tried it, but have read about it.
there must be some info out there somewhere.
Jon

[runfiverun]

push and squeeze. that's about it.
you will change the shape a little when doing it though.
i can squeeze a 379 sized boolit all the way up to 430 and add a gas check/hollow point easy nuff.
it just don't look quite the same when it comes out of the die.

[Cadillo]

Some very sage advice has already been given. I'll just relate my personal experience.

Basically I have found that the more tin(mine comes from adding monotype) I use, the lower I can run my melt and mould temp, and the cooler I run them, the larger my bullets drop from the mould. Using this approach, I can easily get my Lyman .45 bullets to size perfectly at 0.453". I like to cast at 625 F with my iron Lymans. I have to run a bit hotter with my brass Mihecs, but they drop large enough anyway.

Before I learned this, I did well to get them (Lymans)to drop at 0.4515".

Keep an eye out on the forum for monotype or linotype. I bought some here for $1.00 per lb.

Great stuff at a great price!

[ghh3rd]

Thanks for all of the replies. The antimony solution sounds interesting, but I have a question, before I order superhard.


Add 1% Super Hard (by weight) to your WW+ 2% Sn alloy and see what they cast at, if a bit more is needed increase to 2% SH.

I know that antimony levels in WW fluctuate, but assuming that WW contain 3% antimony, adding 1% Superhard to WW would bring the antimony up to 3.3% and adding 2% superhard would bring the antimony up to 3.6% (or a little less, since there is also a small amount of tin and arsenic in WW, and lead ibeing added to the WEW from the superhard).

The increase in antimony seem relatively small - do small increases in antimony make significant increases in boolit diameter?

Randy

[ghh3rd]

Cadillo - I see what you are saying -- more tin = lower possible casting temperature with good fill = less shrinkage. That combined with increased antimony is sounding like Lyman #2... wish the mold makers used something with a little less less tin and antimony as a baseline for boolit size though :-)

[cbrick]

The antimony solution sounds interesting, but I have a question, before I order superhard.

The increase in antimony seem relatively small - do small increases in antimony make significant increases in boolit diameter? Randy

Antimony shrinks far less than lead when cooling. According to your initial post your not looking for significant increases in diameter, your looking for .001" to .0015". Adding a small amount of Sb should get you that much.

I assume 2% Sb in WW because of the variability of WW. The reality is that it could be a bit more or less depending on your batch of weights. Because of this, like you I add 2% Sn. Try adding 1% SH and if needed add another 1%.

See this page for an average shrinkage rate of various alloys with different calibers. About the middle of the page on the left side. Should give you a good idea of what to expect.

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

Rick

[243winxb]

Quote:
The bullet diameters and weights presented in this list
are based on the use of Taracorp’s Lawrence Magnum
bullet alloy (2% tin, 6% antimony, 1/4% arsenic,
91.75% lead).
Bullet diameters and weights will vary considerably
depending on the lead casting alloy used. This variation
can be as much as 1/2% on the diameter, and 8% on
the weight among the most commonly used casting
alloys. For example, a .358-158 grain bullet might
show a diameter variation of .002", and a 13 grain difference
in weight.
Of the most commonly used alloys, wheel weights (.5%
tin, 4% antimony, 95% lead) will produce bullets having
the smallest diameter and heaviest weight, with
such bullets running approximately .3% smaller in
diameter and 3% heavier than bullets cast with
Taracorp's metal. Linotype will produce bullets with the
largest diameter and lightest weights. This alloy will
produce bullets approximately 1/10% larger and 3%
lighter than Taracorp. Other alloys of tin and antimony,
with antimony content above 5%, will produce bullets
with diameters and weights falling between those cast
from wheel weights and linotype.
Alloys containing little or no antimony will cast considerably
smaller than wheel weights and in some cases
will produce bullets too small for adequate sizing.
Within the limitations given above, the weight and
diameter of a cast bullet can be adjusted by varying the
alloy’s antimony content.
The size and weight of bullets of a given alloy will also
vary according to casting temperature. Higher temperatures
will result in greater shrinkage as the bullet
cools, thereby producing a slightly smaller and lighter
bullet than one cast of the same alloy at a lower temperature.