air drop vs water drop.

[Sax.45]

Question... I cast some range lead that tested 8.5 to 9.0 . After casting some boolits the air cooled boolits measured obviously 8.5 to 9.0. Water cooled were 13.0 to 14.0. Does that sound about right? About how much more will they harden if oven heat treated?

The reason I'm asking is I just started casting my own. I bought my casting equiptment from a friend and about 800 pounds of ingots came with the deal,plus I have an unlimited supply or range scrap. The ingots were of unknown alloy but measure about 12.0 I tested about 20 ingots randomly.

I know 13.0 to 14.0 bhn would be good for mid range loads is pistol calibers. I always slug my cylinders and bores cause I know fit is paramount. I used to help an old gent back in the 70's but just helped him out and didn't get into the alloy part of casting.

Thanks. Sax.45

[snuffy]

I did a search for you, here's a good discussion.;


http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=152556&highlight=water-dropping

[captaint]

Shooting mostly pistols & lower velocity rifle boolits, water dropping never enters the equation. Just don't find it necessary. I just drop em on a dry cotton towel. They're perfectly happy that way. enjoy Mike

[williamwaco]

13 is fine for handgun loads but it is NOT BETTER than 8 or 9.

If you want to cool them quick so you can handle them faster, water dropping is ok,
If you are not in a hurry, it is neither necessary or desirable.

Yes. You can get them harder with heat treating than with water dropping.


.

[RobS]

When did you check the hardness??? Considering an alloy with antimony, just hours after vs a week or two makes a difference. What you are stating could be misinterpreted and you will likely get many responses if the facts are not straight.

[runfiverun]

rob beat me to it.
wait a couple of weeks and try measuring them both again.

[Sax.45]

Sorry about that, They were aged for 2 weeks. I loaded 25 of each and shot them today, Both shot pretty much the same, 2-2 1/2" at 10 yds off hand. So I guess I'll just drop them on a towel until I cast them for magnum loads. These are plain base boolits from a Lee 255 gr rf mold. It was just a mouse fart load. Rem cases, 6 gr unique, CCI lp primers. Not to bad for the first time for the gun. I just bought it.....Oh the lube was Alox ACCU-Lube that came along when I bought everything from my friend. Still pretty soft, it ran good thru my 450. Nice lube star on the muzzle, also on the target you can see lube around the boolit hole. So I guess not to bad for my first casting sesson. If anyone has any other tips for me I'm all ears. I know I have a lot to learn.Oh, this is a .45 colt load, from a 1873 colt clone.

Thanks, Sax.45

[MtGun44]

Harder is not needed, even for magnum loads. I find no significant difference between 8 BHN
and 14 BHN when casting Keith designs for .357 Magnum, loaded pretty hot, like 16.3gr
of H110 under a 173 gr 358429. Hornady reports this at something like 1500 fps from
their 8" test bbl, I'd bet more like 1350-1400 or so from my 6" revolvers, but have not
chrono'ed it.

Hardness is a third level variable, much overrated. Get the design, fit and lube right and you
can shoot some pretty soft alloys just fine, even at magnum velocities.

Bill

[RobS]

Should be just fine with air cooled and lower end loads for your clone as well as mid loads. I personally use tougher alloy hardness for my upper end "Ruger Only" 30K loads as well as my 454 Casull loads.

[Sax.45]

Harder is not needed, even for magnum loads. I find no significant difference between 8 BHN
and 14 BHN when casting Keith designs for .357 Magnum, loaded pretty hot, like 16.3gr
of H110 under a 173 gr 358429. Hornady reports this at something like 1500 fps from
their 8" test bbl, I'd bet more like 1350-1400 or so from my 6" revolvers, but have not
chrono'ed it.

Hardness is a third level variable, much overrated. Get the design, fit and lube right and you
can shoot some pretty soft alloys just fine, even at magnum velocities.

Bill

Thanks you Sir, Thats good to know. Like I said in my post, I have quite a bit of alloy that I got when I purchased everything. I also smelted a lot of range scrap, Got about 150 pounds of ingots. Thats the stuff I used for these boolits 8-9 bhn. cylinders measured .454. barrel .452. Boolits .453.

Thanks. Sax.45

[Sax.45]

Should be just fine with air cooled and lower end loads for your clone as well as mid loads. I personally use tougher alloy hardness for my upper end "Ruger Only" 30K loads as well as my 454 Casull loads.

I also load for .44 Ruger only loads, .480 Ruger, .454 Casull also.But I don't think I will have time to work up any new loads for them before hunting season. I have tin and Antimony(spelling?). But I don't know how much to use to harden my existing alloy. That will be in the future...

Thanks, Sax.45

[RobS]

I also load for .44 Ruger only loads, .480 Ruger, .454 Casull also.But I don't think I will have time to work up any new loads for them before hunting season. I have tin and Antimony(spelling?). But I don't know how much to use to harden my existing alloy. That will be in the future...

Thanks, Sax.45

I use WW alloyed boolits or similar with a pinch of tin often times and water quench from the mold. The tin probably isn't all that necessary but I use it to bring down the alloy temp when I cast.

[Wolfer]

I don't know much about high pressure loads but I shot a lot of 8,9,10 bhn thru 45 colt and 44 spl at just under 1100 fps with no problems.
I believe William Waco did some testing on AC versus WD and if I recall correctly they will all be at the same bhn givin enough time. I don't know about other people but I sometimes shoot boolits that have been cast a year or better.

[williamwaco]

Harder is not needed, even for magnum loads. I find no significant difference between 8 BHN
and 14 BHN when casting Keith designs for .357 Magnum, loaded pretty hot, like 16.3gr
of H110 under a 173 gr 358429. Hornady reports this at something like 1500 fps from
their 8" test bbl, I'd bet more like 1350-1400 or so from my 6" revolvers, but have not
chrono'ed it.

Hardness is a third level variable, much overrated. Get the design, fit and lube right and you
can shoot some pretty soft alloys just fine, even at magnum velocities.

Bill

DITTO!

On every word!

[oldfart1956]

Question... I cast some range lead that tested 8.5 to 9.0 . After casting some boolits the air cooled boolits measured obviously 8.5 to 9.0. Water cooled were 13.0 to 14.0. Does that sound about right? About how much more will they harden if oven heat treated?



Thanks. Sax.45 Sax just to answer this part of the question...it depends. I have some lead of unknown parantage that tests very similar to yours when air-cooled and water dropped and when oven heat treated tested 20/22 bhn. I'm not saying yours will or that you need that. I'm just saying. My range time showed a decrease in performance but yours might not. Audie..the Oldfart. (south-central Pa.!)

[Sax.45]

Thanks guys, I think I will air cool them. I shot them in a Colt clone, They shot pretty good for my first castings. I had them chugging along at a whole 600 fps :grin:

[RobS]

I don't know much about high pressure loads but I shot a lot of 8,9,10 bhn thru 45 colt and 44 spl at just under 1100 fps with no problems.
I believe William Waco did some testing on AC versus WD and if I recall correctly they will all be at the same bhn givin enough time. I don't know about other people but I sometimes shoot boolits that have been cast a year or better.

A very long time for a water quenched WW boolit. They do stabilize out at around 18 BHN or so but will remain there for years and years. Cast Performance and Beartooth bullets heat treat their hunting bullets so they are not fragile (fragment). If alloyed to such hardness for an air cooled bullet they would be brittle and not a very good hunting bullet.

Read the section "about our bullets"
http://www.grizzlycartridge.com/store/index.php?app=cms&ns=display&ref=aboutus

and then take note to the second FAQ on this weblink
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/faq/index.htm

[MikeS]

When you air cool them, if you want to be able to handle them faster, after you drop them out of the mould, you can place them in front of a small fan sitting by the drop area. I do this, and I've never noticed it to make a difference in the hardness, although I do recall reading (I think in the Lee manual) that it might cause them to harden slightly more than plain air cooling, but not as hard as water dropping them. I've only ever water dropped one boolit, and it was a rifle boolit for 7.62x39, for pistol boolits it's totally unnecessary.

[Sax.45]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all the replies. I know I'll be asking a lot more questions :smile::smile::smile:

Sax.45