Shooting My Own

[Whitespider]

A little history first.
For years a buddy would custom cast my boolits. At my request, he would vary the alloy or sizing diameter. Because of changes in both our lives I lost that great source, but I learned a lot about shooting cast boolits. My 5½-inch Ruger Redhawk .41 Magnum was the only gun he didn’t have a mold for, and I never got around to picking one up for him. Shooting commercial cast from this gun it leaded badly, I’ve always suspected that the problem was boolit size and/or alloy.

As most of you regulars here know, I recently decided to start casting my own. I’ve started with the .41, ordering a Lee TL design SWC. Using plain WW metal the boolits drop from the mold at +/- .4125 and weigh 215grs, they require some force to push through the cylinder mouths. I pan lubed them with some lube I made, 1 can JPW/1 lb. Beeswax/1 bottle LLA, “cooked” for some time to remove the solvents.

The boolits were cast about three weeks ago. I loaded some over 10grs of SR4756, normally this gives me 1000-1100 fps with cast of this weight. I shot 25 of them at my 10-inch steel plates, offhand, various ranges, hitting the target every time. I checked the barrel, there’s some leading that starts about ¼-inch from the forcing cone and extends about ¾-inch (the threaded area of the barrel), but only in the grooves, the tops of the lands are spotless. The forcing cone and the rest of the bore are also spotless, bright and shiny. There’s no lube star on the crown, but no other evidence that the boolit is short of lube. I would think that the boolit is obliterating at this pressure but it sure looks a lot like flame cutting.

This leading is different than any I’ve dealt with before:confused:. Such a small area, just in the grooves, land tops spotless, forcing cone spotless and the rest of the bore bright and shiny. If there’s a barrel constriction in the threaded area, the leading is in what should be the tightest spot in the barrel. I’m just not sure what to change:???:. Should I increase/decrease pressure, add tin to the alloy or maybe “eye of newt”?

I suppose it’s possible I didn’t get all the lead fouling cleaned from the grooves after shooting the hard cast commercials. What do y’all think?

[leftiye]

I'd do some slugging of the bore, and find out just how much of a restriction there might be (remove lead first of course). Fire lapping might remove the restriction if there is one. Be very careful with fire lapping, and do your homework first.

This may not be the whole problem , or maybe it is just plain not the problem. Are your chamber mouths larger than your groove diameter, or not? ( .001 over bore diameter is prefferred) If not, you need to make this be the case. If the boolits come out of the cylinder smaller than the bore what you are seeing is most likely flame cutting as the gasses would be allowed to get past the boolit. Ruger has a reputation for undersized chamber mouths.

Alloy should not be the problem, my guess. Last but not least, There might be a lube that works better, though what you describe sounds good to me. Tumble lube boolits are not my favorite, though they work for a lot of people, maybe wrap them with teflon plumber's tape?

[**oneshot**]

Are you lubing before or after sizing or both. I pan lube after sizing with beeswax, oliveoil and teaspoon of hoppes gun oil. Making sure that I cover all of the driving bands on the bullet. I did get a slight streaking of lead just ahead of the forcing cone then I switched to 2400 powder and no leading after that. I was told that some powders just shoot cast cast better than others. I know one person on here had a bad leading problem then switched to Herco in their 44mag and the leading went away.

Might be worth a look.

[lathesmith]

I tried Lee's tumble lube design in my Ruger 44mag SBH hunter. Severe leading in only about 6 shots, and this at around 750 fps. However, out of my 44 Ruger 99/44 carbine, no leading, excellent accuracy, same load @900fps.
Next, trying "conventional" bullets with Alox lube at around 750 fps, the 200 grain Lee shoots beautifully accurate and super clean. With the same powder charge, I tried a couple of different 240 grainers; velocity is still over 700, and I do pick up just a bit of leading just as you described in your post, just forward of the forcing cone. However, the gun is still accurate 50-100 shots later, and the leading doesn't get worse.
I am not sure what is going on here, I have studied lots of technical literature and still have not found what I think is a satisfactory explanation. Experimentation is fun though, and I have learned a lot from playing with the different loads.

[Bass Ackward]

I don't think you have a constriction. Just doesn't usually act that way.

I'd say that your lube is not slipery enough to handle the obturation of the base.

You have many options. Slower powder, cut the charge, seat out one more groove at a time until the pressure drops enough, (you should have plenty of cylinder length) add vasoline to the lube or go to a slightly harder bullet.

[Whitespider]

Thanks for the replies guys.

leftiye
I slugged the bore several years ago, I acquired the revolver in 1986. I’ve somehow lost my notes but do remember that it was over .410 inch but less than .411 inch. I also remember that the bullets I used for slugging the bore fell right through the cylinder mouths. I don’t believe the chamber mouths are smaller (if I can trust my memory) than groove diameter.

**oneshot**
I’m not sizing, shooting “as cast”. Another powder may be an option.

Bass
I agree with you, I don’t think barrel constriction is the problem either, but the lube could be. When I first made the lube it turned out too soft and sticky. I figured that I hadn’t “cooked” the JPW long enough to remove the solvents before I added the beeswax and LLA. So I “cooked” the whole mix again for an extended time. I may have “cooked” off some of the oils in the beeswax and/or damaged the LLA. It could be that the lube just ain’t slippery enough when the pressure is at its peak. You’re right, I do have plenty of cylinder length to play with, but I do prefer my “every day” loads somewhere in the 1000-1100 fps range (although I haven’t run these bullets over the chronograph). I really like the firmness of the lube I have so I don’t want to add something that will make it soft of sticky, yet. Think I’ll add a little tin to the WWs and try a slightly slower powder first.

Thanks again

[Dale53]

Overheating lube commonly causes a failure of the lube.

This could be your problem.

You might want to try another batch of lube. Perhaps try a good commercial lube to see if that solves the problem.

Lars has some great lubes at very attractive prices. Bullshops lube is known to be good, also.

Dale53

[Bass Ackward]

Think I’ll add a little tin to the WWs and try a slightly slower powder first. Thanks again


Well .... I am a believer in tin. But not for these situations.

In fact, if friction is actually your problem, you might be better off with pure lead. This is because the more stuff you add to the mix, the lower the temperature that the surface is going to melt.

So my guess is that leading will increase. But at least while you are cleaning you will have the piece of mind that you are on the right track. :grin:

And soft lube gets to the bore surface a lot easier at pistol acceleration rates and velocities.

[Whitespider]

Bass

Upon further reflection, I gotta’ agree, tin is probably not an answer. But I’ve only got about 25 bullets left that were cast with strait WW and about 400 cast with about 1% tin added.

Did an aggressive cleaning of the barrel tonight, and a careful inspection of the bore. The revolver has fired well over 7000 rounds, 1500 or so were jacketed bullets. The forcing cone is “checked” and eroded, part of it looks as though it was blown away with a cutting torch (flame cutting of the steel). But the cone stays clean and the gun was capable of 1½-inch groups at 25 yards the last time I “rested” it. I did find some minor pitting in the grooves, next to the lands in the area where the leading happens. I would guess that I was lazy a few too many times, didn’t get that area clean enough and the fouling caused the pitting. And there’s the issue of normal wear and erosion in the first inch or two with any barrel that’s fired 7000+ rounds.

My gut feeling is that the barrel condition is a big contributing factor. I might “paint” a little LLA over the top of the lube I have now and try that. If I play around long enough I might find the right balance. A harder alloy might work, I could try water dropping or heat treating, but that might be too hard for 1000-1100 fps loads. Or, I may have to “settle” for loads under 1000 fps and put up with a little leading. What do y’all think?

Maybe I should have “started” with a .44 or .45 caliber mold, I’ve got several guns for those and some of the barrels are almost new. I choose the .41 because I’ve never shot anything but commercial cast in it, I wanted to see what it’d do with bullets tailored for it. Oh yea, and I was clean out of .41 caliber bullets[smilie=1:.

:castmine: NOW

[Bass Ackward]

My gut feeling is that the barrel condition is a big contributing factor. I might “paint” a little LLA over the top of the lube I have now and try that. If I play around long enough I might find the right balance. A harder alloy might work, I could try water dropping or heat treating, but that might be too hard for 1000-1100 fps loads. Or, I may have to “settle” for loads under 1000 fps and put up with a little leading. What do y’all think? :castmine: NOW


WS,

Bottom line is that you gotta do what you gotta do based on the cards you are dealt.

Then it may still take accepting a little leading based on how much effort you want to put into this or change that. But your other bullets are going to be slightly harder too. Could be a wasted thread. Won't know until you pull the trigger.

[Whitespider]

.....lube is not slipery enough to handle the obturation.....add vasoline to the lube.....

Well Bass, you had it nailed. I “painted” a generous amount of LLA over the top of the already lubed boolits, almost no leading. Just a trace of lead that dry-brushed out of the barrel.

So, my homemade lube needs a little work (should have made Felix lube). Wish I’d not used JPW in it because I’ve since learned that it’s mostly paraffin. I’ve got about $20.00 invested in the lube (JPW $6, beeswax $10, LLA $4) so I don’t want to throw it out. Might add Vaseline (as Bass has suggested), but I’d like to use a non-petroleum product. Anybody have a slippery idea?

Oh ya, we can’t trust my memory. I slugged the barrel just to make sure. It’s not between .410-.411 as I “remembered”, it measured .4114 inch. I didn’t slug the cylinders but the two bullets I use in the barrel fall almost all the way through, requiring the slightest push.

[Bullshop]

Whitespider
A slippery idea, Bull Plate. A simple lube, Speed Green.
On that 41 I too have a Ruger that has about the same over size barrel at about .4115" and the cylinder throats were .410". Not a good araingment! Got some tools from Brownells to open the cylinder to .412", and cut an 11% angle to the forcing cone. Am now shooting .413" diameter boolits with much improved results. The problem there is most production molds seem to shoot for about .410" diameter as cast. Watch the group buys and jump on one of the fat ones. Thats what I did for a 250gn WFN/GC and that did the trick. I have that Lee 175 TL I see mentioned here but it barely makes .410" diameter so is worse than worthless in my Ruger. I also have had the Lee 240 swc for many years and it drops larger at close to .412" but I would like a .001" or so fatter. It will do OK though when cast in a very soft alloy. I also have a 300gn WFN/GC that was made for the 405 Win that drops at about .415" diameter. It is also a most excelent boolit for the 41 mag and most definately a hand full when loaded to full potencial. There is load data for 300's in the 41 mag in the older Hodgdens manual, the hard cover red and black volume.
BIC/BS

[Misfire99]

If it was me I would try using some trewax on the barrel before shooting. It is mostly carnauba wax and should give good protection to the bore and fill up any micro pits that could be causing your leading problem. It's cheap and easy to do so that would be the first thing I would try.

[Mohillbilly]

Whitespider, you might take a small portion of your "original" batch of lube and dilute it with different amounts of LLA.You will find the mix by going 50-50 and then up or down from that....

[crabo]

You might try cleaning your bore really well. Then take a hair dryer or heat gun and heat your barrel from one end to the other until it is pretty hot to touch. Using a new bore mop, soak up a bunch of Tetra Gun fluoropolymer lubricant and bore conditioner. Give it about a 100 strokes, replenishing a couple of times. Then go shoot.

Crabo