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View Full Version : 44 Special Velocity Potnential in a Lever Rifle



35 Whelen
10-29-2012, 10:45 PM
I'm gearing up for CAS and want to shoot 44 Specials. I already have one of my revolver and am prowling for the next. Fir my rifle I've decided I want either an 1866 or 1873. Has anyone here actually chrono'ed any .44 Spec's out of a rifle?
I'm curious as to what the velocity potential will be and how much gain will be realized out of a carbine length barrel.

Thanks,
35W

I'll Make Mine
10-30-2012, 07:14 AM
How much you gain depends on what powder you load with. Fast powders, like Bullseye or Red Dot, will be fully consumed in a longish revolver barrel (6" or so) and will gain little if anything in a carbine (a Bullseye load might actually lose velocity between, say, a 16" and 20"), but slower powders like H110 or 2400 will pick up significantly more in the longer barrel.

fecmech
10-30-2012, 12:08 PM
I can't speak to .44 special in a carbine but have much experience with .38 spl in a carbine. Bullseye, Unique,Red Dot loads in .38 spl gain approx 200 fps in the carbine over a pistol barrel. Slower powders like 2400,296,4227 gain approx 400 fps in the carbine.

runfiverun
10-30-2012, 12:44 PM
i have seen a 86 in 44-40 and a 73 in 38-40 and 45 colt.
i have never seen either of those actions available for anything with the word magnum in it.
a 73 in 44 special would be rather tempting.

you will generally pick up about 150 fps in a rifle over a revolver, using cowboy loads.

starmac
10-30-2012, 02:20 PM
I never played with them in a lever, but shot a few with me ruger semi carbine. It was single shot only in the ruger, but fun enough to plink with.

FergusonTO35
10-30-2012, 07:13 PM
I would imagine 1,000 fps is doable in a carbine.

35 Whelen
10-30-2012, 11:30 PM
Well, I was just looking for some hands-on experience. I figure if Elmer Keith was pushing a 250 gr. SWC 1200 fps 60 years ago out of a revolver, 1400-1500 wouldn't be unreasonable out of a carbine.

35W

35 Whelen
10-30-2012, 11:55 PM
Yes, I'm aware of their rules. My current rifle runs a .357" 160 gr. SWC a little over 800 fps.
35W

w30wcf
10-31-2012, 11:30 PM
Well, I was just looking for some hands-on experience. I figure if Elmer Keith was pushing a 250 gr. SWC 1200 fps 60 years ago out of a revolver, 1400-1500 wouldn't be unreasonable out of a carbine.
35W

True...but not in a '66 or '73 since the pressure of the Keith load is much higher than the 15,000 psi those rifles are limited to......

In a 20" carbine, 44 Special factory smokeless cartridges averaged just under 900 f.p.s. .44 Special b.p. cartridges, just under 1,000 f.p.s.

w30wcf

35 Whelen
11-01-2012, 01:05 AM
True...but not in a '66 or '73 since the pressure of the Keith load is much higher than the 15,000 psi those rifles are limited to......

In a 20" carbine, 44 Special factory smokeless cartridges averaged just under 900 f.p.s. .44 Special b.p. cartridges, just under 1,000 f.p.s.

w30wcf

I agree with you with regards to the pressure limits of the '66's, but since the modern '73's are chambered in both .357 and 44 Magnums, evidently they are capable of handling much higher pressures.

35W

9.3X62AL
11-01-2012, 03:32 AM
I agree with you with regards to the pressure limits of the '66's, but since the modern '73's are chambered in both .357 and 44 Magnums, evidently they are capable of handling much higher pressures.

35W

Not going to happen at my house. I understand the reloading rationale for using a straight-wall chambering over the necked/shouldered WCF calibers--ease of refills--but after pulling sideplates from my original 73 x 44-40.......and seeing that the components look like they left New Haven last month......there is still no way on earth I would run that knee-action system any hotter than 14K PSI. I know, metallurgy has advanced a lot over the 115 years since my rifle was built, but loads like a 44 Magnum belong in a Win 92 or Marlin 94. JMHO, and worth exactly what you paid for it.

smkummer
11-02-2012, 02:06 PM
In the original post it states gearing up for CASS. If you ever shoot a CASS match, its more of what minimum power will still make a bang and clear the barrel. Factory 44 special 246 grain ammo that is rated at about 750 from a revolver will make about 900 in my marlin and would be a good load for starting a CASS match. Within time you will lean to a 180-200 grain bullet to save lead and load for something in the 7-800 FPS range in the rifle. I only shot one cass match using a 44 special revolver and marlin rifle. I found a cowboy load from a manual that was by all means fine but compaired to the other shooters, it seamed like I was shooting magnums.

35 Whelen
11-02-2012, 10:26 PM
In the original post it states gearing up for CASS. If you ever shoot a CASS match, its more of what minimum power will still make a bang and clear the barrel. Factory 44 special 246 grain ammo that is rated at about 750 from a revolver will make about 900 in my marlin and would be a good load for starting a CASS match. Within time you will lean to a 180-200 grain bullet to save lead and load for something in the 7-800 FPS range in the rifle. I only shot one cass match using a 44 special revolver and marlin rifle. I found a cowboy load from a manual that was by all means fine but compaired to the other shooters, it seamed like I was shooting magnums.

I've already shoot CAS and am currently using my wifes stuff (38 Spec/357). I'm gearing up to get my own equipment. For her I load a 160 gr. SWC over 2.6 grs. of Clays. It chrono's 835 out of her 20" Rossi...never bothered chronographing the pistols. Just received a .358" Lee mould that drops 'em at about 130 grs. that I'll be casting for her to save a little lead.

Regarding bullets for the .44 I've ordered a mould from Accurate Moulds that drop a 165 gr. bullet. I think will be just right.

35W

Izzoquazzo
11-17-2012, 09:16 PM
I shoot CAS with a pair of .44 SPL Ruger Vaqueros with 4 5/8" barrels and a Marlin 1894 in .44 Mag. My round is a 200gr RNFP and 7 grains of Unique for all 3 guns. The book says this gives me about 850fps. I don't have a chronograph.

McLintock
11-17-2012, 09:45 PM
I had a Uberti '73 rifle with 24" barrel, in 44 Special for a number of years for shooting CAS and shot both smokeless and BP out of it a lot. BP is the funnest, but you're asking about smokeless loads and I used Titegroup in it, 5.0 grs with a 200 gr'er and it did pretty well, I think it was around 850-900 fps or so according to the loading manuals, never chrono'd it. Used 4.5 grs for my pistol loads. As said, wouldn't want to shoot magnum load s in one; still a toggle link action.
McLintock

Larry Gibson
11-17-2012, 11:43 PM
Test guns; 5 1/2" SAA revolver & M94 AE w/16" barrel, WW cases with Fed 150 primers.


Magtech 200 gr Cowboy Action factory load; 628 fps out of SAA & 745 fps out of M94

205 RF over 4.6 gr N32C Tin Star 643 fps out of SAA & 792 fps out of M94

205 RF over 6 gr N32C Tn Star 697 fps out of SAA & 890 fps out of M94

Larry Gibson

35 Whelen
11-18-2012, 12:07 AM
I shoot CAS with a pair of .44 SPL Ruger Vaqueros with 4 5/8" barrels and a Marlin 1894 in .44 Mag. My round is a 200gr RNFP and 7 grains of Unique for all 3 guns. The book says this gives me about 850fps. I don't have a chronograph.

I've had the chance to chronograph some loads, both rifle and handgun, since my original post.

Here's what I found all w/Lyman 429421 ACWW, 248 gr. @ .430" :

Uberti 1873 SAA 4 3/4"

Unique, 6.0 grs., CCI-300- 697 fps
Unique, 6.5 grs., CCI-300- 806 fps
Unique, 7.0 grs., CCI-300- 845 fps
Red Dot, 4.7 grs., CCI-300- 689 fps

Cimarron1873 SAA 5 1/2"

Unique, 7.0 grs., CCI-300- 870 fps

Red Dot, 4.7 grs., CCI-300- 745 fps

AL2400, 13.2 grs., FED-155- 933 fps (Max. load in Lyman 49th Ed.)

Cimarron 1873 Carbine, 20" bbl:

Unique, 6.5 grs., CCI-300- 1069 fps
Unique, 7.0 grs., CCI-300- 1119 fps
Unique, 7.5 grs., CCI-300- 1150 fps (Skeeter Skelton load)

AL2400, 13.2 grs., FED-155-1235 fps (Max. load in Lyman 49th Ed.)

I have a match tomorrow, the first with the .44's, and I'll be using rhe Red Dot load.

35W

PS- Wouldn't it be neat if as Stickies in all the forums we could post the results of our chronograph data?