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ratboy
10-28-2012, 09:41 PM
i am wondering about large scale processing of 223. i now have an AR to feed. i have a large quantity of military brass and it seems that is the easiest to find. i am planning to deprime with a lee die as it seems to be the best idea for crimped primers. i then plan to swage the primer hole with a dillon tool. tips would be appreciated. i then expect to trim and load into a progressive press. i was planning to use a RCBS lube die in place of the deprime station and proceed as usual. this will be my first foray into large scale processing of military brass and i thought i would ask for some pointers to see if i have a good plan.
i dont know if i will use a case feeder but that is not my first problem. i was thinking about using an old hornady projector for this since they are cheap and i know how to make the priming system work very well.
does this sound like a good plan?

scarry scarney
10-28-2012, 10:08 PM
Nothing against the big red, but if you want to do it in style, check out the dillon 1050. Case collator, automatically stages the primer pocket and everything.

I have no experience on the old projector, but right off the bat, I would suggest a current press. But if you already have the projector, and your other needed tooling, that would save you some cash. But it does sound like your system would work, just a lot of case handling.

ratboy
10-28-2012, 10:31 PM
a dillon 1050 would be nice but it would cost me WAY more than what i have in the rifle. i dont have a extra press yet. if i have to buy new i was leaning more towards a 650 but that is still a good amount of monies.as for case handling, i figured it wouldnt matter a whole lot since i am going to have to swage the primer pockets in the brass so there will be an excess of brass handling that can not be avoided. i did not know a 1050 could be set up to swage the primer pockets.

i just took a look at the dillon site. oh. my. the 1050 is much more than i thought.it is not really an option.

scarry scarney
10-28-2012, 10:37 PM
I live near Oroville, home of RCBS. I took my furnace in for a new power cord, and saw that they have a new swage tool, similar to the Dillon tool. I don't know the price, but if it works as good, and costs less......Might save a dollar or two.

Dan Cash
10-29-2012, 09:40 AM
My 2 cents worth: Decap & resize on your existing single stage. Forget the lube die as you will spend more time monkeying with it than it is worth. Spray lube or lanolin on fingers for lube.

Trim necks and swage primer pockets.

If you are buying a progressive, look hard ad a Dillon 550B. Instal a M die at station one. Don't bother with bullet and case feeders unless you are into production of more than 5000 rounds a month or have lots of money for your toys. If your fingers are reasonably dexterous, you will load 400 rounds per hour with the 550B as it comes out of the box plus an extra set of primer pick up tubes. At the end of the hour you will want a break.

buyobuyo
10-29-2012, 01:16 PM
I would skip the initial depriming step. Just size/deprime and then swage and trim.

wv109323
10-31-2012, 05:21 PM
I agree with Dan. I do all my case preparation on a single stage. (resize deprime) .I also use the RCBS Primer pocket swag to take care of the crimped primers. Of course I use a case trimmer in a separate operation to trim the brass.
For a progressive I may look at the plain Dillon 500. The 500 would allow you to use anyone's powder measure to throw your powder charge. You can mount the powder measure on the press and use thrown powder charges or use a funnel to pour your weighted charge into the case. Dillon supplies the items needed to go either way.
You would be using the Dillon to set primers, Supply the powder( via powder measure or Poured into case), set the bullet and crimp.
I don't know what equipment you already have. The RCBS Primer pocket swag is way cheaper than the Dillon tool. If you already have a powder measure my way is also makes a little more sense.

ratboy
10-31-2012, 06:06 PM
i must admit that i am a bit turned off by the 550's lack of auto index. i am not bench rest competing with this rifle so i would like to load a little faster than i think a 550 will be comfortable with and i really want a case feeder. i sure would like a 1050 because it is awful slick but it is also awful expensive. i think using a 650 to load will be the nicest way. i already have a dillon ss600 that i got a few years ago for dealing with some lake city 308.i like the opinions i am getting. i am in no hurry to buy equipment so for now i am doing all of it on a single stage. when i make the leap i only want to buy once. sure would be nice if someone would just give me lots of monies.[smilie=l:

garandsrus
10-31-2012, 08:42 PM
THe 550 is not really that much slower than the 650. The Caliber conversions are much cheaper for the 550 than the 650. The caliber conversion time for the 550 is much quicker also.

Jailer
10-31-2012, 10:19 PM
You will likely save your most time and effort spending your money on a quality trimmer with a 3 way cutter head. The single most time consuming portion of reloading 223 in quantity is trimming. If you have a large amount of brass to process then you will want to trim/chamfer/deburr all in one step to eliminate handling the brass multiple times.

I currently use a Forster trimmer and 3 way cutter with a cordless drill. I like this setup but before I run my next large batch I'll be investing in a better/faster trimmer setup. A Dillon 1200 or a Giraud trimmer is what I'm leaning towards. Neither setup is cheap but you get your moneys worth here in time saved.

The Dillon Super Swage 600 is an excellent product and will allow you to process the brass very quickly for swaging primer pockets.

MBuechle
10-31-2012, 10:42 PM
A lot of guys doing what you want with a 550 or 650 will have two heads, one set up for brass prep and one to powder charge & seat. In the prep head, use a Dillon 1200 trimmer so you de-cap, size & trim. Then swage primer pockets and tumble the brass. Then swap heads & load. With a case feeder on a 650 brass prep goes pretty quick. Use 12:1 Isopropal / lanolin to spray lube with then dump brass into the case feeder and start pulling the handle!

runfiverun
10-31-2012, 11:36 PM
i use the dillon size trimmer set up on a lee c-press.
i start with a universal de-primer die.
lube-size trim- tumble-swage.
by the time i get to the swaging i have tossed the junk cases.
then a quick deburr/champher on my rcbs machine thing.
i can hit the primer pockets on my pocket cutter thingy installed on it too, to double check i got the crimp for sure.
then i hit the 550 for a quick push over the expander ball-prime-powder fill [i use aa-2230 for a consistent powder drop]-and two different seaters, the second one does a light crimp.
once the swaging etc is done, the second trip through the machine is lots faster.
i still full length size on the single stage because i don't want lube on my finished rounds.

clodhopper
11-01-2012, 12:18 AM
Primer pocket swage tools work best with sorted brass of uniform web thickness.

For semi auto rifles;
I lightly tumble fired brass in walnut.
Size on single stage.
Clean brass with stainless steel media, water, with dawn, and lemishine.
Trim with RCBS 3 way tool.
Ream primer pocket to depth.
Load on dillon 650 with decaping die in station one
and taper crimp die on station 5
don't think stations 2, 3, and 4 are't busy too!

Reverend Recoil
11-02-2012, 05:49 PM
The Giraud trimmer is the way to go if you wantto load 223 Rem by the 5gal bucket.

Duckiller
11-02-2012, 11:51 PM
I decrimp with RCBS swage tool then finish off with a Hornady reamer. Allow plenty of time and prepare to be bored to tears. Decrimping military brass is the one thing that makes me wonder why I got into reloading. If you need some alone time to get your mind right then dexrimping is a compatible axtivity.

blikseme300
11-03-2012, 10:56 AM
I decrimp with RCBS swage tool then finish off with a Hornady reamer. Allow plenty of time and prepare to be bored to tears. Decrimping military brass is the one thing that makes me wonder why I got into reloading. If you need some alone time to get your mind right then dexrimping is a compatible axtivity.

Being bored to tears or getting your mind off other life things is good therapy. Reloading suddenly becomes so much cheaper as shrink visits are expensive and you will have nothing to show for it. I don't need a shrink but work and life pressures need an outlet.

I like power tools as much as the next guy but preparing once fired mil-spec brass for reuse is either time consuming or expensive. Choose your poison.

I recently started volume rifle reloading as I got bored of handgun reloading and got into the 300 Blackout in AR-15. I traded some unused reloading tools for more than 5000 223/5.56 cases. I quickly found that my single stage press was still relevant as it is used to deprime and used to swage the primer crimped pockets.

Cutting the cases to length is done using a Proxxon cut off saw using a special jig. Rough trimming is done using a WFT trimmer and final trimming is done using a Forster 3-way cutter head in a Forster trimmer.

I built an annealing rig and each case is annealed twice in the conversion from 223 to 300blk. Cleaning is done using STM and a Thumlers mod B tumbler.

Life is good, I have lots of loaded rounds and ready to load components. The length of time taken to do this is inconsequential.



Bliksem
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

ratboy
11-03-2012, 11:51 AM
i do like hiding in the basement.
:shock:

FISH4BUGS
11-05-2012, 02:02 PM
I shoot an M16 and 308 full auto guns. I go through a TON of 223 and 308. I size and deprime on the 550 and just pull out each round after sizing. That is the functional equivalent of a single stage press. I use lanolin mix w/ isopropyl alcohol for lube.
I use the Dillon swage tool to remove crimped primers. Trimming is the slow spot. I have Forster Case trimmer hooked to a cordless screw driver that ups the production but still is not as fast as I wished. Chamfer & Debur with an RCBS hand tool. The Dillon case trimmer, while expensive, is the only way to fly. That is next in my purchase.
Loading should be done on the 550. Best bang for the buck. Also their "NO BS" warranty is truuly NO BS. I have had mine for many years. My Dillon customer number is low 4 figures....that's how long I have had my Dillon.
You would be surprised how much brass you can trim by doing 50 here, 75 there, and a hundred here and there. I did over 500 308's in just a few hours here and there.
Not my favorite task in reloading but it does allow you to inspect each and every case very closely.

ratboy
11-05-2012, 09:13 PM
"I use lanolin mix w/ isopropyl alcohol for lube."

tell me more about this if you will. i have been trying to mix this up and seem to be having difficulties getting the lanolin to form a solution.

Mike Hughes
11-05-2012, 11:51 PM
I mix a tube of Lee sizing lube with 16 oz of isopropyl alcohol and use it in a spray bottle. I drilled 200 holes about 1/2" deep into a 3' section of 2x4. I spray the lube from a upward angle to get some on the inside and outside (does not take much) It's fast, cheap, and easy. Never had a stuck case.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/25145509871c64ed8d.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=7308)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/25145509872dfdca79.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=7309)

after they are lubed, I use a little Lee challenger press to decap, resize, and install primer with one pull of the handle (goes really fast)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/25145509872dfe3fa6.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=7311)


At this point, I feed the cases through my Lee Load Master to powder charge, seat bullet, and crimp.

This is my bulk loading procedure using cheap once fired brass. I can steadily net 300 rounds per hour

Mike Hughes
11-06-2012, 12:29 AM
when I receive the brass, I decap, trim and ream the primer pocket. I can usually load them several more times without trimming

I quickly trim the cases with a basic Lee case trimmer chucked up in a small harbor freight drill press (fast and easy)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/25145509872dfe14b0.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=7310)

I ream the military crimp with a rcbs pocket reamer mounted in the drill press (fast and easy)

49358

FISH4BUGS
11-07-2012, 09:08 AM
"I use lanolin mix w/ isopropyl alcohol for lube."

tell me more about this if you will. i have been trying to mix this up and seem to be having difficulties getting the lanolin to form a solution.

99% isopropyl alcohol and pure lanolin. 8:1 ratio. Shake before using.
It is vital that it be 99%. 80% won't work. maybe that is your problem?
You can fudge the 8:1 ratio by experimenting. Make very small batches and spray on the cases, let dry. You might like 9:1 or 10:1 or 7:1 or 6:1. You find what is best for you.
That is what Dillon sells for their case lube.

ratboy
11-07-2012, 07:15 PM
i am using 99% alcohol. in fact, i am using too much. i will try using a little more lanolin. still dont know why it does not want to form a solution. i am going to try heating it just a touch. my bench is in the basement which means everything is a little colder.

guninhand
11-07-2012, 08:48 PM
Before you put whole batches through any particular step, do 100 or so from start to finish and fire them, to check that everything in the various steps along the way is set up correctly. I had done several thousand and everything seemed Ok but then once in a while I would get gas cutting from the primer, so that left an etch on the bolt face. After several thousand it wasn't long before there was etching all around the firing pin on the bolt face.

I was left wondering if I had messed up the primer pocket swaging ( I use a Dillon) and had somehow been off center sometimes when I used it, leaving the primer pocket eccentric thus inviting the gas blowby. Or was the cause clumping in the powder measure ( it was one on an RCBS piggyback), where I was using ball powder, AA2230, and once in a while a case would get an overcharge, and the blowby was from over pressure??

Another thing I was told by someone deep into testing and marketing AR's, and you may take this with however many grains of sands you wish, was to never reload military brass more than twice.

Iowa Fox
11-07-2012, 10:09 PM
Lee makes two different styles of de-cappers, I'm going to assume you are talking about the hammer and anvil style which is the one I use for crimped military brass. I use mine with the 1 ton Harbor Freight arbor press as some primers were so hard to remove I was mushrooming the decapping rod from hitting it. I use the RCBS 7/8x14 die tool with a couple mods to make it a little easier to get the rod free of the primer pocket after swagging. I use a little Lee sizing wax on a Que-tip in the primer pocket before sizing and it makes things run much smoother I have found. If you measure the over-all length of the cases before you size you will see just how much the expander ball is stretching the cases. I like to work in milk jugs of 50 or so which helps with quality control, you will go mad if you wade into a 5 gallon bucket full. Some of the Lake City is top notch brass which is very durable in the AR. After all the work I put into the cases I have one of those mesh bags on my AR to collect the brass so it isn't flung out on the rocks or concrete. Forgot to say I give them a good wash in LemiShine after the primers are out and before I start anything else with the cases.

fredj338
11-08-2012, 03:53 PM
A 1050 is the easiest as you don't have to do anything w/ the primer pocket. You can moutn a Dillon pwoer trimmer in one station & away you go. Sure, you have more into it than the gun, so what? After shooting 5K factory rds, you will have spent more on ammo than the gun in most instances.
The other approach is a 650 w/ case feeder & RCBS X-dies & a cheap ss press. Deprime all your brass then trim & do primer pockets. Now use OneShot & reload on the 650. The OS doesn't have to come off & you only trim once w/ the X-die. I do this on my 550B. You'll want to mark the cases in some fashion so when you pick them up, you knwo they have all been processed & then you just clean & load.

eck0313
11-08-2012, 04:18 PM
Another option is to have someone process the brass for you that is already set up to do large quantities. A highpower shooter over in WV did several thousand for me awhile back, and they were tumbled, sized, trimmed, primer pockets swaged, and ready to shoot. (He has a Dillon 1050 with all the trimmings)

PM me if you are interested in his contact info.

ratboy
11-08-2012, 09:39 PM
it looks like i will be buying equipment and a couple of local high power shooters will be having me do exactly that. just saving up right now, selling a few things and doing some side work. hope to buy a press by the end of the month. until then i am loading single stage which is ok, i need to work out what the rifle likes anyway. there has been many good ideas presented in this thread and i appreciate all the help. i plan on getting a 650 and case feeder. later i plan to get a power trimmer but i have 4-5k of brass to work through. i cant justify the 1050 as i dont shoot quite that much.

David2011
11-08-2012, 10:08 PM
i must admit that i am a bit turned off by the 550's lack of auto index.

I have a 550 and a 650. IMO, the lack of auto-indexing has little or no effect on the speed of the press since you index, set a boolit on a case and insert a fresh case all in one fluid motion. Since I don't have case feeder this is speculation but it seems like one would probably speed up a 550 considerably.

Working alone, I can load 400-450/hr with the 550 and 800 with the 650. A helper keeping the primer tubes loaded and boolits close and handy increases that by about 20% on either press.

David

David2011
11-09-2012, 12:54 PM
I was left wondering if I had messed up the primer pocket swaging ( I use a Dillon) and had somehow been off center sometimes when I used it, leaving the primer pocket eccentric thus inviting the gas blowby.

I had the same problem with the Dillon swager getting off center. I fixed it by mixing some epoxy with milled glass fibers (adds lots of strength) and some black pigment, just for appearance. I put a piece of plastic grocery bag, the thin kind like WalMart uses, in the bottom of the swager. A dollop of epoxy went on top of the plastic bag followed by another piece of plastic bag. Then I put a cartridge in place and closed the swaging lever to center the case up.

When cured the plastic (which is polypropylene) peels off easily and leaves a perfectly fitted insert to position the case. A little cleaning up of the rough edges and it was ready to use. It stays in place with no adhesive yet comes out easily when I want to swage other cartridges. As long as the cartridge is all the way down in the insert the pocket will not be smeared by an off-center punch.

David

SMCCORD
11-09-2012, 02:58 PM
I keep several 3-5 gallon buckets with 223 brass at different stages.
One bucket with once fired.
Next bucket with sized, deprimed and cleaned.
Next bucket primer pocket reamed.
Another for trimmed and chamfered brass.
Final bucket ready to load.
I may polish the brass in a tumbler for a few hours if I want really pretty loaded rounds but most get loaded as is.

I do most of my brass prep while I'm waiting for the pot/mold to warm.I use a RCBS rockchucker for size/deprime, and a small woodworking lathe with a 4 jaw chuck to hold the Lee case trimmer and the primer pocket reamer. I have started using a RCBS powered case trimmer with 3 way cutter. It's amazing how much brass you can process if you do a little at a time. I just move it from bucket to bucket. If i don't want to trim any, I'll grab the once fired and size some.

It works for me until I can afford a Super 1050 with the Ponsness-Warren Auto Drive, Dillion RT1200 press mounted case trimmer and bullet/case feeders. :bigsmyl2: