Pan lube first then push-thru size?

[moptop]

I'm venturing into uncharted waters here and thought I would ask the pros. I'm going to try a different boolet type for 9mm, one that has a lube groove rather than the tumble lube style that I have been using. I don't have a lube-sizer so I'll have to try my hand at pan lubing and I'll be using a Lee push-thru sizer. Should I lube first then size or should I go about this the other way around by sizing first then lubing? The mould I'm going to try is Lee's 125 grain RF in .358" as shown below. I've read several posts from folks who have have very good results shooting this one out of a BHP. Any suggestions of seating length would be helpful. Of course, I can use it for .38spl as well.

I've tried several suggestions to get the 125 grain tumble lube style to shoot without leading but it just refused to cooperate. It's a shame because it is a very accurate boolet for me.

Also, I read here that some mix the Liquid ALOX with Johnsons Paste Wax and have better results. I take it that they are still using it as a tumble lube? If so I thought I would try that as a last resort before throwing in the towel and trying the other style boolet I mentioned above.

Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated. Thanks

[trying2learn]

I have used the jpw and the allox together without issues. As for sizing I can't answer yet as I am lucky enough the non tumble lubes drop cloe enough to use.

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[ukrifleman]

Hi moptop,
It is good practice to lube your bullets BEFORE you pass them through the sizing die, this prevents the die from leading up. I have found that Lee Liquid Alox is fine on its own and will virtually stop leading in the bore.
I would suggest that you tumble lube your bullets with Lee Liquid Alox, then pass them through the sizing die, then lube them again before loading them.
I load 14 calibres, 11 rifle and 3 pistol and I use LLA with no problems.
Hope this helps.
ukrifleman.

[gofastman]

I've tried several suggestions to get the 125 grain tumble lube style to shoot without leading but it just refused to cooperate. It's a shame because it is a very accurate boolet for me.

I have found my .358" lee sizer squeezes them down to about .356"
I wonder if that .355 sizer you are using is making them too small for your barrel.
Have you measured your sized bullets? have you slugged your barrel?

if the size is correct, perhaps try a PBCheckmaker from PatMarlin
you swage a gas check made from a disk punched out of a soda can onto the base, i use(ed) it in my (sold) .44mag with 240gr TL SWC bullets and you could push them hard as hell with no leading

[williamwaco]

I use that exact bullet tumbled in LLA with no problems.

I find it very nice to shoot in .38 special.

I size it to .358 before lubing then tumble in straight LLA. I do NOT cut it. Used to cut it but found it works better for me if I use it straight. It doesn't spread as easily so it takes more time to tumble a uniform coating.

You can tumble before sizing but if you do you MUST tumble AGAIN after sizing.


.

[bigboredad]

I think what williamwaco has you headed in the right direction. I had problem with tumble lube style bullets but before buying a new bullet I pan lube my tumble lube bullet. It helped the leading but was a pia. I now have a lubri sizer but I still use a push thru sizer one to save wear and tear on the lubri sizer and also lots have suggested that sizing base first is a better way to go. I'm not sure if it does or not but it does make me feel special when I do

[moptop]

Thanks to all for your replies!


I have found my .358" lee sizer squeezes them down to about .356"
I wonder if that .355 sizer you are using is making them too small for your barrel.
Have you measured your sized bullets? have you slugged your barrel?

Gofastman; I am using the .358" sizer not the .356" for my 9mm. I'm shooting these thru a pair of Browing Hi-Powers and the barrel slugs out a .357+" so I am trying to match my boolet size to the bore. I am going to measure the sizer and see what it actually measures. Your right, that could be one of the problems but it doesn't make any sense since I'm using the same sizer for .38 and not having any leading problems with it.


It is good practice to lube your bullets BEFORE you pass them through the sizing die, this prevents the die from leading up. I have found that Lee Liquid Alox is fine on its own and will virtually stop leading in the bore.


UKrifleman; That's how I've been doing it. I also cast for .45acp and .38spl, using the same style tumble lube boolet for those calibers with NO leading problems at all. The boolet is very accurate in those cals as well. It's just the
9mm that is being hard to get along with. I have even invested in a .358" Lyman "M" die as suggested by folks on this forum to make sure that the case is sized large enough for a .358" slug and not swaging it down by being too small.
I will say that it did help reduce the amount of leading but it's still much more than is should be.

I have been water dropping, I'll try air cooled on the next go round. I cast from straight COWW. Maybe I'll add 50% pure pb to the mix and see if a softer alloy will help any.

Thanks again for the help!

[FergusonTO35]

I use that boolit in .38 and 9mm with good success. I size to .357 and pan lube with alox/beeswax or dip lube in LLA.

[runfiverun]

just use the boolit you show at 358.
you'll have to use a shorter oal,and lower your load to compensate for the reduced case capacity.
but pan lubing and using the push through will be perfect for what you wanna do.

[gcsteve]

Alloy can make a difference too. If your bore is .357+, and you are sizing at .358, and your alloy is on the hard side, you could be getting leading. Maybe try a softer alloy or a bigger boolit.

[rintinglen]

Pan lubing is not necessary for conventional boolits that are going to be tumble lubed.

I have cast and TL'd many thousands of boolits ranging from 90 grain 311-245's up to 480 grain457-406"s. My 9mm's get a regular diet of Lyman 358-242 122 grainers sized .357 (which actually results in a bigger boolit than those sized in my .358-marked sizer die--go figure.) I recommend two light coats, one pre and one post sizing. I use the Recluse, 45/45/10 formula these days, but straight LLA worked for years for me.
I have run 311-291"s up to 2300 fps in my 30-40 with good accuracy and little leading. Almost all my silhouette shooting has been done with boolits lubed this way.

[mdi]

As a matter of fact, I just did 150-200 of the same bullet yesterday. I pan lube then size, excess lube on the bullets is removed when run through the sizer. While I haven't used 45-45-10 (yep alox, JPW is still a tumble lube) as a lube for this bullet yet, it does work on T/L style and regular lube groove bullets. Last bunch was shot from my .44 magnum..

[292]

The 358-125-RF lubed with LLA before and after sizing works great in my M&P Shield. I size with a .356 push through, the boolits actually measure almost .357 after sizing.