Crooked Caster

[ShootNSteel]

I just got screwed out of a deal I've been working on for 3 days.
Me and a buddy had a lead on a magma bullet master and an auto sizer to go with it, along with a lot of miscellaneous stuff we could really use, really way too much to list. The caster came with molds for 45 38 and 9, and the sizer came with a bunch of star dies and about 50 big sticks of tamarack lube. There was also about 2k lbs of lead, most lino.

The guy and his wife are downsizing and moving into a trailor because of his health, they used to run a cast boolit business back in the day.
Anyway we sorted through everything and made the guy an offer on it all. We didn't have a whole lot of money to deal with, being I was layed off today doesn't help a whole lot. Well we himed and hawed for a good hour or so and we finally setted $200 apart from each other, and he never budged one dollar the whole time stuck at 3k.
He said repeatedly he could wait a few weeks for the extra $200 when we could caugh it up, but would not budge. We said we would have to sleep on it and would get to him the next day and he said we could call at 2 or 5 when he got home. He did get a call for the equipment while we were negotiating...
I made sure before we left to get both his and her word that they would give us the first shot at buying it, and they would hear from us tomarro either way. We shook on it, and left.

The next day.
As I mentioned it was my last day of work and it was very very busy, I said goodbye to about 60 people on the shop floor and then made my way up front for some last minute training as I handed off my position to another engineer. All the while I'm getting bombarded by everyone, and also trying to finish drafting my last machine fixture. By the time I could catch my breath it was 3:45 and I called and left him a message we'd be there at 5 to make the deal.

I hadn't heard from him and we decided to take my buddies truck over there at 5. Well we beat them home and when they pulled in they did not look happy. We got out of the truck to meet them and he said you might be too late. He proceeded to tell us that he decided to give the equipment to his grandson, a 21 year old kid that had all his **** stored in their house anyway that needed to move!!! He said since he didn't hear from us at two then he decided we didn't want it, but just the night before he would of waited weeks for us to scratch up an extra $200!

We said we had called and let him know, he said his phone died and he could not check it and he didn't have a charger in his car. My quick thinking partner dialed him from his pocket right there on the spot and guess who's phone ringed in their front pocket, yes.

There were so many holes in his story I cannot begin to explain them. So not only had he lied to us and not kept his word, he lied about selling the equipment out from under us.

I'm glad I wasn't around greater Cleveland Ohio to shoot Mr.Millers bullets 20 years ago when he was making them, because I'd rather throw money away then give it to a dishonest individual as himself.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Well we himed and hawed for a good hour or so and we finally setted $200 apart from each other, and he never budged one dollar the whole time stuck at 3k.

With all due respect, you fellows weren't screwed, you just need to work on your listening skills. If he was firm at 3K the whole time (3 days)...no doubt he got tired of your " him'in and haw'in " and decided he didn't want to sell it to you. I might have done the same to ya all.

[ShootNSteel]

Let me help clarify then. 2 days of sorting through everything he was willing to sell, moving piles and piles of things, getting lead ready to be loaded, weighing every pound of lead for him, and listing all the items for him he wanted to sell (2 days). On the 2nd night after that we did the negotiating. We agreed that we would sleep on the price, giving me HIS WORD, that he would not sell it without hearing from us. Then LYING about it when confronted. I call that screwed in my book. The deal wasn't standing for more than 18 hours.

And it was not us doing the him hawing, like we wanted to be there another minute after all that work. We were cut and dry, period.

[bruce381]

when deals come up you cannot waver ALWAYS leave with the stuff many times I have been in same situation and next day deal is gone, so i learned always say yes.

[ShootNSteel]

Good advice, I'll take it to heart, this learning experience is painful to say the least.

The biggest thing that irks me is that I've always found the shooting community to be some of the most honest, stand up, candid individuals, and this is the only case out of many to prove that wrong for me. Every time I've made deals similar to this I leave happy with a new friend.

[MikeS]

Sounds to me like he got you guys to do the heavy lifting of inventorying all his stuff for him. Another note for the future, if you're ever in a situation like that, where you have to make a list of stuff, make the list for YOU, and do not share it with the seller. I mean if the seller doesn't already know what he's selling, that's HIS (HER) problem. If after making a complete inventory of the sellers stuff they want a copy of it, offer to sell it to them. I mean labor is never free, so if you have 5 or 6 or however many hours invested in making an inventory, figure out what your time is worth, and explain to the seller, if you buy the stuff then everything is fine, if not, then the seller can either pay you for inventorying their stuff, or not get it, and have to do it themselves. I bet looking at it that way that you would more than make up the $200.00 difference in price.

Years ago when I was in the leather working machinery business, we often got calls from guys that wanted to sell a bunch of stuff, but didn't know what they had, and so wanted us to come in, make a list of what they had, then make an offer. We learned real quick that many of those folks just wanted to get a listing of what they had, sometimes just to get a value for insurance, or whatever. That's why auctioneers always charge to give an appraisal, normally with the stipulation that if they buy it, then there's no charge. But if there's no deal right then, they get the appraisal fee, and refund it IF they buy it. (or if they sell it in their auction house).

And as has already been said, when a deal presents itself, either take it, or leave it, as more often than not, if you come back to it, it'll be gone. And also, if you take a deal, make sure you leave with it at the same time, or some of it might disappear.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

forgive my comments in post #2
But that was the conclusion I came to after reading post #1
from what you've added in post #3 ...it sounds like you were taken advantage of.
again, Sorry.
Jon

[DHurtig]

I have met some really great people in the shooting industry. That being said, I have also met some who are crooked, lyin' thievin' SOB's too. The trick is to know which is which. Dale

[376Steyr]

I'd suggest knocking on the grandson's door next week and offering him fifteen hundred and you'll haul all that heavy junk away for him. Maybe it runs in the family...

[x101airborne]

I'd suggest knocking on the grandson's door next week and offering him fifteen hundred and you'll haul all that heavy junk away for him. Maybe it runs in the family...

Now THAT is using your noodle.

[popper]

He who hesitates is lost. If you had inventoried the stuff into the back of your truck you would be happy. Cash in pocket, equipment to haul, estimate the value, make the deal. Nah, the GS probably told him he could get more. You got snaked, shake it off, learn.

[edler7]

Talk to the grandson. He probably doesn't want to invest that much time and work into something like this...he'd rather chase tail and hang with his buddies.

You might get it cheaper than from his granddad.

[mdi]

Like I always tell my wife; we're only getting one side of the story. No offence, but we can't really agree with you nor judge anyone's actions. Mebbe you were threatening to the old feller, and he told you a story 'cause you "backed him in a corner". Mebbe you were wearing thin on his patience. Mebbe you were being too agressive insisting on "heming/hawing" for 2 days and being stubborn about the last $200.00. From your story, he took the equipment off the market to give to his grandson (I may have done the same for a young family member) and didn't sell it out from underneath you. Personally when I sell something I know what I want for it, and continually arguing and being "pushy" about price just turns me off from any deal.

Posting your experience/disappointment allowed you to get it off yer chest, so, just chalk it up as a learning erxperience...

[PS Paul]

Good advice, I'll take it to heart, this learning experience is painful to say the least.

The biggest thing that irks me is that I've always found the shooting community to be some of the most honest, stand up, candid individuals, and this is the only case out of many to prove that wrong for me. Every time I've made deals similar to this I leave happy with a new friend.

Yep, my feelings are pretty much the same: mostly standup folks whom you can trust. Bummer on the deal, but perhaps it was meant to be?

Another deal will come your way, I'm sure. Just maybe not as "sweet" as this one?

Of course, I would not have the same "lighthearted" attitude if it were me that it happened to (ha-ha)!!!

[montana_charlie]

The biggest thing that irks me is that I've always found the shooting community to be some of the most honest, stand up, candid individuals, and this is the only case out of many to prove that wrong for me.
I've seen it proven wrong, too.
One of those 'disappointments' is the reason I don't own a Shiloh Sharps today.

CM

[ShootNSteel]

Like I always tell my wife; we're only getting one side of the story...
Posting your experience/disappointment allowed you to get it off yer chest, so, just chalk it up as a learning erxperience...

Your right, we do only have one side of the story, and quite possible he did feel threatened. Also thanks John for your second post. I'm not saying I'm 100% right, I could be in the wrong from the sellers point I don't know. Just from where I stand and what I saw did and heard, this is what happened to me, that is all I know.

One of the reasons we didn't take the deal that night is that we only had 2/3rds of the money, it was raining so all the machines would get a good soaking and probably rust, and there was one ton of lead to haul away. My buddy only had a half ton pickup and we would have to make 2 trips minimum. This all is negligible though because the guy reassured us that he could wait for the money as long as a month.

I did ask him to ask his grandson if he would sell it and he said he would ask him when he would see him. But I really don't think he gave it to him, for one out of many particular reasons, he needed the money from the equipment for medical bills. I've tried to call him and talk to him, and so has my friend, but he will not answer our calls or messages.

[9.3X62AL]

When one door closes, another often opens up. Not being there, I can't assess the seller's representations......but there's certainly room to doubt his motives given the outcome.