New to this, what to get

[kragjorgensen]

I'm a new member and I started reloading in the mid 80's after the Army. Lead bullets (and even jacketted) were cheaper than the electricity needed to make them back then so I never took up casting. My last case of "store bought" cast 45 bullets came in at 5.6 cents each, and I remember complaining how I used to pay 3.5 cents each just a few years before that 5.6-cent purchase. Currently they run up to 15 cents each and I wish I'd invested in projectiles instead of stocks and bonds. Jeff Cooper was right when he wrote "Ballistic Wampum" back in the 1970's.

Anyway, I need to get started casting my own. I "mined" about 200lbs of spent pistol bullets over the past few years. A friend with a big iron vat & water heater burner set up helped me melt them down, remove the wastepaper basket full of dirt, rocks, and bullet jackets, and I got 196 ingots, which seem to be 1% tin, 4% antimony, and 95% plumbum - if I trust my measuring equipment.

Right now my only plans are practice ammo for the 45ACP, 180gr or 200gr LSWC at ~700-900fps.

I was hoping for a bit more tin, but my reader method might be underestimating it.

I have no molds, no pot, no lube & sizer, just a bucket of ingots. But Christmas is coming...

Now that my elbow is better I hope to get more practice in. I have some questions.

1. How big a pot, 20lb?

2. Some have a guide for their molds only, others no guide, and some claim to have glommed on a guide. If you bottom pour into a 4-6 cavity mold, do you need a guide?

3. Bevel base or flat? I've purchased and shot both and notice no difference on paper. I get easier seating with the bevel base.

4. What hardness should I strive for for the 45 at moderate velocity? Will my alloy be up to it?

5. Which mold size is best, 4 or 6 cavity? I'm shooting bullseye and would like good accuracy. The gun will shoot 2 inches at 50yds from a ransom rest with the right loads.

6. What kind of lube and what size, 452, 453, etc. works best?

I'm just gathering opinions and advice. Been spoiled by cheap metal prices and a reasonable stockpile. I do have friends in the area who cast and they also recommended this site. One also suggested trading one of my cars for a Hensley & Gibbs 68 mold...

Matt

[glowe]

read this: From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners
Once you have an understanding of how casting works, we can better help you.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=110213

[wv109323]

I will try to answer your questions as to the best of my ability with my experience. First I am a Bullseye shooter and have shot since 1980 and earned a Master card. Two time President 100 and a Distinguished Pistol Shot. I mention those as to give you a level of my experience and not to brag.
I would definitely use a 200 gn. SWC with the H&G 068 or 069 design. The 185 shoot well as a jacketed bullet (Nosler JHP and Winchester 185 SWC) but when it comes to cast it seems harder to get a good group out of them. Also in cast they seem to be less reliable in feeding thru the 1911. If you prefer the BB go with it. Both BB and Flat base are common. I will add one comment. With the flat base it is easier to spot a bullet that came from a less than a completely filled mold due to the rounded edge on the bullet base. You will probably end up visually sorting your bullets for slow fire ammo to be used in competitions. The sharp edge at the base and a good flat bottom on the bullet are essential for 50 yard accuracy. The good flat bottom means the sprue was cut without tearing a chunk out of the bullet base.
I would recommend a 20 pound pot with a 4 to 6 cavity mould. When in the heat of casting you can use up 20 lbs of lead pretty quickly. The 20 lb. also will allow you to add lead without a great fluctuation in lead temperature. Also with 20 lb. your alloy remains more consistent.
I like a mold guide on the pot as it helps with fatigue. Be aware that the Lyman mold guide is designed for Lyman molds. I have a Lyman 20 pot but a lot of my molds will not fit in the "track" of the Lyman guide. I think you will end up with some type of mold guide but just how tough would it be to make your own.
Your lead alloy is probably all right for the .45 ACP with target loads. If you can not get the molds to fill out completely then you may need to add some tin. Think lead solder as a means to up your tin percentage. Hardness is not critical with the .45 ACP. Many people use a swagged bullet and get excellent results. An example was the Star swagged bulet. That company is now out of business. Zero Bullets makes an excellent swagged Target bullet for the .45 ACP. Try the alloy you have now and see what results you get. I think you will be alright.
There are many lubes that fit the bill. I do not like the NRA 50/50 formula because on a hot summer day it turns to a semi- liquid. I would stay away from lubes that need heated to apply. You just don't need a lube that hard for the .45 ACP. Micro lube is an old standard. I will add some other lubes from White Label.
A word about molds. You kinda get what you pay for. A lot of people use and like the Lee 6 cavity. You can get one with handles for about $60.00 or less. If you go that route make sure each cavity of the mold cast a bullet that is within .001" and weighs very close the same. I have a Lee 6 cavity that I just discovered is unacceptable. It is a .44 Mag mold and it throws boolits from .431 to .445. Just a word of caution regardless of brand make sure your mold is doing it's job. There is no difference in a 4 or 6 cavity mold, I think quality is much more important and quantity in this case.
Feel free to PM me with any question you have. I will be glad to help.

[Mk42gunner]

1. How big a pot, 20lb? A Lee 4-20 is a lot more comfortable for me to use than the ten pound version; it is easier to ladle from also, if you decide to try that. The Lee twenty pounder also isn't much more money than the ten pounder. The RCBS Promelt is a better pot, but costs 3-4 times as much as the Lee. I have no experience with the Lyman or any other pot.

2. Some have a guide for their molds only, others no guide, and some claim to have glommed on a guide. If you bottom pour into a 4-6 cavity mold, do you need a guide? The Lee has a sort of guide, the RCBS does too. Even if you don't rest the mold on it, it is nice to have it close.
3. Bevel base or flat? I've purchased and shot both and notice no difference on paper. I get easier seating with the bevel base.Flat bases run through a lubrisizer with less issues.

4. What hardness should I strive for for the 45 at moderate velocity? Will my alloy be up to it? I am using air cooled wheelweights, but my understanding is that just about anything can be made to work in the .45 ACP.

5. Which mold size is best, 4 or 6 cavity? I'm shooting bullseye and would like good accuracy. The gun will shoot 2 inches at 50yds from a ransom rest with the right loads. It depends. The two most often recommended designs seem to be the H&G 068 and the Lyman 452460. I have the Lyman in both two and four cavity molds. An iron four cavity mold is a lot heavier than a six cavity aluminum mold.

6. What kind of lube and what size, 452, 453, etc. works best? Ask ten casters and you will get about 17 diffent answers on lube, I am currently using FWFL and sizing to .452". ZYou really need to slug your barrel first, but most .45's I have seen do well with .452".

Welcome aboard, hope this helps.

Robert

[wv109323]

I'm back.
Lubes that I would recommend from White Label Lube is X-lox or BAC. Their lube is $1.90 or 1.60 per tube. You can get up to 14 tubes for $6.00 postage. For $30.00 you can get enough lube to last you a number of years. You may want to order a small quanity of each to find your preference. They are sponsors of this site and have excellent prices and service.
I forgot about bullet size. Ninety nine per cent of the shooters size their bullets to .452. I know Kart and Colt barrels will shoot .452. If you get leading you may need to size differently but start with .452.

[kragjorgensen]

Thanks for the advice. My M1911's have the KART barrels.

I'll probably ask more later.

Matt

[DRNurse1]

Wow. Excellent advice in short order. Also check with Dave C, he is a 2600 Bulls eye shooter. I know you are asking casting questions but I want to address your 2 inch ransom rest groups: check or have a bullseye pistol smith check the fit of your barrel to collet and collet to slide, as well as the rear of the slide to the frame. The over all cartridge length and the leade are accuracy factors as well.

I hope you have measuring and weighing tools to monitor the boolits you cast, too.

Welcome back and have fun unloading those cartridges.

[David2011]

Matt,

Lots of good advice here. Agreeing almost completely with wv109323. My favorite 1911 is probably not quite as tight as his but it shoots pretty well.

I've never had any feeding problems with cast, even in a gun that shoots very light loads with an 8 lb recoil spring. I shoot a 200 gr SWC (RCBS 45-201 SWC) and Lyman 429374 which is very close to John Browning's profile for the original FMJ. I prefer BY FAR cast iron or steel molds to aluminum like the Lee 6 cavity molds. I only have one 6 cavity Lee.

The steel and cast iron molds produce about the same number of boolits in an hour with a 4 cavity mold as a 6 cavity aluminum mold because I spend less time trying to get boolits out of the mold. It cools off slightly while I dink with the stuck boolits. (I have Lee-mented it.) It has to get back up to temp to make good boolits again. You have to keep a very fast pace with aluminum molds to keep them hot enough. I don't have this problem with my iron and steel molds, regardless of caliber and design.

David

[Echo]

Lots of good advice for you, KJ. A 2" group @ 50 is an X-ring group - I made the 2600 Club using an AF Premium Grade 45, and their criterium was 3" @ 50 (10-ring accuracy). Your gun will do you well.
Re you original questions: The Lee 20 pounder sounds good to me, but if you do any eBay work, you will find SAECO and Lyman 10 pounders for reasonable prices. Still, the Lee 20 sounds good.
Mold guides - I don't use them. I build stages from scrap 1by to rest my molds on, and either screw them to the furnace base, or not.
BB vs FB - your argument in favor of the BB is cogent, but my experience is that they are a pain going through the lube/sizer, and FB's are easier to spot incomplete fill, as someone else said. I don't use BB boolits.
Hardness - hardly a factor with the 45, except on the high side. Must have obturation. Your alloy should do just fine - but might need a percent more of Sn for fill-out.
4 vs 6 - you pays your money and takes your choice. I have several 6-bangers, and have never had the size problem mentioned by one of the responders above (sounds like a closing problem). With a stage under the nozzle weight is of little issue. For my 45's I use a Lyman 452460 4-banger and a MH 4-banger.
Lube - I use NRA, and am careful NOT to leave the ammo box out in the AZ sun! No drama there. I have also used TL with good results, but continue to use NRA through my Star. Actually, for the 45, I think ANYTHING would work, even Family Salve (K-Y)!