Equipment advice

[Rich22]

So I am looking at getting started casting, I am a bit overwhelmed by equipment options here, this makes reloading look extremely easy by comparison so I am looking for a bit of equipment advice specifically

Pot- Don't need anything huge but do need a decent capacity

Mold- The 6 Cavities look like a good idea for production rates

Lubrisizer- No idea on this one, looked at the Star but man that baby is $

Lube- Absolutely no clue on this one

etc


Don't need to be the fastest caster in the world but to make it really worth it I do need to have a fairly good rate of production but I also am not looking to spend tons of money either. At the moment I would just be casting for 9mm Luger but eventually we are probably going to get a .308 or 300 AAC Blackout rifle at some point in the near future. I likely will need to make 1000 9mm per month maybe a bit more than that and eventually 400-500 30 cal for a rifle which if I decide to go totally nuts I may look into swaging jackets.

At this point other than lead and the basic reloading gear I have absolutely nothing so any ideas for other things I would need other than the obvious safety gear I am all ears.

Thanks

Rich

[blikseme300]

Rich,

To quote drag racers. "How fast can you afford to go?"

Many casters get by with minimal investment because they have experience. Example: Judging the temperature of the melt.

Casting, like any other craft, can be pricy depending on how wet you want your feet to get.

I started with the smallest and cheapest but upgraded as soon as I could afford the better tools.

Today I own multiple high end progressive presses and multiple Star sizers. Yep, I am addicted, but not to bad stuff.

Hope this don't scare you.

[runfiverun]

i would get the lee 20 lb pot ,i have two 40 lb pots and still use my 20 lb pot [and a 10 lb one too]
and go with the lee 6 cavity molds.
i wouldn't even look at the 9mm tumble lube mold for the 9mm.
instead look at the 38-125 rnfp mold they make, it will pour to the 358 size you'll want.
you'll have a slightly shorter cartridge oal but this means using a little less powder.
for lube you can use the 45/45/10 lube it's easy to make and requires no lubesizer.
i would however recommend buying a lee 358 push through sizer.

that's the best i can tell you for success with the casting part of what you want to do.
there is a sticky here on the 9m that will help on the loading side of things.

[gmsharps]

I think a 20lb minimum and the Lee would get you there for the least amount of money. There are a ton of good lubes. There is a sticky for Ban's red but Whites lube is good and very reasonably priced. One of the weak links for what you are trying to do is the lubesizer. If you go to the lyman or RCBS you will quickly learn that they are not built for speed. They work great but not fast. The star is the standard that has been set and many things can be done to them for a few more bucks to speed them up. If you keep your eyes open and have money in your pocket you can occasionally run into one at a great price. It seems that when you go the star route you are not happy with just one and when you find a nother one you just grab it also. Look at the group buys offered here at this site and you will find boolit molds that we used to just dream of. We are living in great times as far as great equipment availability, for now at least. This site can educate you more than you will ever know. Most of us have had to learn by trial and error and usually a lot of error. Read the stickys and re read them and then ask for info and you shall receive. Good luck and welcome to the site.

gmsharps

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

For the beginner, I'd suggest tumble lubing boolits.
read and understand this sticky on what is mentioned all the time as
45-45-10
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67654

But some applications require a beeswax based lube.
you can make your own, here are some recipes.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=26524
but before you do, I'd just like to share the conclusion
I came to shortly after I started this hobby.

I wanted to do every part of the process of boolit casting to shooting.
while that's all fine and good, it places so many factors into the end
result (the boolits in the X ring) that it's frustrating when you don't get the
results you hoped for. Each part of "boolit casting to shooting" is a hobby
in it's own wright.
1. Scrounging and smelting scrap Lead into usable alloys.
2. pouring and understanding alloy temp. and mold temp for each mold and application.
3. Applying the Lube and the Lube itself, there is no magic lube that works for each application, (start reading this sticky http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=148746 to begin to understand the complexity)
4. Loading...there are a whole new set of rules to follow loading home cast boolits that are softer than commercial cast and are less forgiving that jacketed bullet.
5. lastly shooting...I guess pulling the trigger isn't much different, but getting the accuracy is more challenging, use of a Chrono seems to be more important to get more data to help understand how to improve accuracy.
Oh, and there is a ton of other stuff, I'm forgetting to mention
So, if you'd rather not make your own lube, see the vendors
randyrat, bullshop, or whitelabel lubes, they have excellent
"tried and true" boolit lube for about the price of the ingrediants.
I make my own, but I recently bought some of randyrat's tak#1
his current sale price is just unreal, and it's about the same
formula that I use when I make my own.

Lastly, for the beginner, if tumble lubing isn't enough.
I suggest looking for a Lyman 45 (yes, I am a bit biased).
they are simple and easy to use. You probably won't lose
any money on a purchase (if it turns out you don't like it
or you want something better and faster) as the Lyman 45 seem to
hold their value. They use all the Lyman dies...Old or New.
Here is a sticky I put together that will help.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=166565

[Roundnoser]

I think the Lee 4-20 pot would be a good choice and at a good price. Same with the Lee 6 cavity molds.

If you are making 1000 + bullets a month I would suggest spending the money and getting a Star lube-sizer.

How will you handle your bullets will determine what kind of lube you use. If you want the convenience of bulk packing your bullets, you will want a hard(er) lube which will prevent it from transfering and making a mess. If you plan handle each bullet carefully and keep them stacked so they don't tumble around together, you could go with a softer lube.
-- There are lots of opinions on lubes, but its a matter of determining what works best for your application. Generally softer lubes lubricate and reduce leading better than hard lubes, but they are often smokey, get runny on hot days/hot guns, and easily transfers to other bullets in the sizing / reloading process.

Hard lubes have the advantage of not transfering, holds together in hot environments, and smoke less. However it can be a less effective lubricant, and require a heat source in the sizing process to apply to the bullet grease groove.

I cast bullets a couple thousand at a time, and size them on Stars. For me, I like to bulk pack them for storage. I use a Magma's commercial hard lube, which is a good balance for how I lube-size and what I shoot.

Good luck! Let us know how you make out.

[Rich22]

A very good point, I'm looking at keeping the starting costs sub 500 approx. I have figured to make it worth my time I need to be able to do about 250 completed bullets an hour on average.



Rich,

To quote drag racers. "How fast can you afford to go?"

Many casters get by with minimal investment because they have experience. Example: Judging the temperature of the melt.

Casting, like any other craft, can be pricy depending on how wet you want your feet to get.

I started with the smallest and cheapest but upgraded as soon as I could afford the better tools.

Today I own multiple high end progressive presses and multiple Star sizers. Yep, I am addicted, but not to bad stuff.

Hope this don't scare you.


[/QUOTE] I think the Lee 4-20 pot would be a good choice and at a good price. Same with the Lee 6 cavity molds.

If you are making 1000 + bullets a month I would suggest spending the money and getting a Star lube-sizer.

How will you handle your bullets will determine what kind of lube you use. If you want the convenience of bulk packing your bullets, you will want a hard(er) lube which will prevent it from transfering and making a mess. If you plan handle each bullet carefully and keep them stacked so they don't tumble around together, you could go with a softer lube.
-- There are lots of opinions on lubes, but its a matter of determining what works best for your application. Generally softer lubes lubricate and reduce leading better than hard lubes, but they are often smokey, get runny on hot days/hot guns, and easily transfers to other bullets in the sizing / reloading process.

Hard lubes have the advantage of not transfering, holds together in hot environments, and smoke less. However it can be a less effective lubricant, and require a heat source in the sizing process to apply to the bullet grease groove.

I cast bullets a couple thousand at a time, and size them on Stars. For me, I like to bulk pack them for storage. I use a Magma's commercial hard lube, which is a good balance for how I lube-size and what I shoot.

Good luck! Let us know how you make out.
[/QUOTE]

Living in florida I am surely going to need something that can handle hot temps Where I will be casting and lubing may reach well over 110 during the summer and shooting well into the 90's

[Rich22]

i would get the lee 20 lb pot ,i have two 40 lb pots and still use my 20 lb pot [and a 10 lb one too]
and go with the lee 6 cavity molds.
i wouldn't even look at the 9mm tumble lube mold for the 9mm.
instead look at the 38-125 rnfp mold they make, it will pour to the 358 size you'll want.
you'll have a slightly shorter cartridge oal but this means using a little less powder.
for lube you can use the 45/45/10 lube it's easy to make and requires no lubesizer.
i would however recommend buying a lee 358 push through sizer.

that's the best i can tell you for success with the casting part of what you want to do.
there is a sticky here on the 9m that will help on the loading side of things.

Thanks for the info there, I had never actually looked at the lee push through sizer, a question, how generally does it differ from something like the RCBS or the Star? I am guessing in that it does not lube the bullet while it is being sized? Also, I am wanting to do a RN bullet since I much prefer those to FP bullets which mold would you choose then? Appreciate the info.

Rich

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Richer,

Answers in red below.


So I am looking at getting started casting, I am a bit overwhelmed by equipment options here, this makes reloading look extremely easy by comparison so I am looking for a bit of equipment advice specifically

Pot- Don't need anything huge but do need a decent capacity
Get the Lee 20 lb bottom pour. Affordable, reasonably large and bottom pour minimizes things you have to buy like a ladle.

I do suggest getting a turkey fryer made with rebar legs and a cast iron pot to smelt your lead in. Other wise, buy cleaned (smelted) lead from someone else and just cast boolits. You can upgrade a turkey fryer for more efficient heating as well.

Mold- The 6 Cavities look like a good idea for production rates
The Lee 6 cavitiy molds are a good place to start. Read up on them here before casting with the first one.One set of handles can fit several molds, so get one set of handles to start and later on, you can add more as you wish.

Lubrisizer- No idea on this one, looked at the Star but man that baby is $
The Star is expensive, yes, but it's very efficient and the one I ended up with after spending money and being dissatisfied with the Lyman 450. Before I spent money on a lube sizer, I suggest using a Lee "push through" sizer on your single stage press and tumble lubing your boolits. You can tumble lube any type of boolit, not just the Lee tumble lube molds.

Lube- Absolutely no clue on this one
Lee tumble lube or go with one of the vendors suggested above if you decide to get a lubersizer right off the bat. Sometimes, it's easier to get going if you don't try to do everything yourself out of the blocks.

etc

Safety equipment to cast with - see below

If you gather your own wheel weights and sources of lead, you'll want to smelt your own lead. This requires the following:

Smelting oven - turkey fryer with cast iron pot
Mold for smelted lead - buy or make, research the board for more information
Set of stainless steel utensils (includes soup dipper) from the Dollar store - you'll use these to dip the lead and various other tasks that pop up.
Safety equipment - hot lead will seriously harm you, so make sure you have enough leather to protect you on your body and hands, use a mask and respirator to protect your face and lungs. Serious harm can come from melted lead, so head this part.


Don't need to be the fastest caster in the world but to make it really worth it I do need to have a fairly good rate of production but I also am not looking to spend tons of money either. At the moment I would just be casting for 9mm Luger but eventually we are probably going to get a .308 or 300 AAC Blackout rifle at some point in the near future. I likely will need to make 1000 9mm per month maybe a bit more than that and eventually 400-500 30 cal for a rifle which if I decide to go totally nuts I may look into swaging jackets.

At this point other than lead and the basic reloading gear I have absolutely nothing so any ideas for other things I would need other than the obvious safety gear I am all ears.

Thanks

Rich

Take care,

Dave

[Wayne Smith]

OK, a couple of questions to further direct our answers. What is your lead/alloy supply? Will you be melting wheel weights or buying pure metals from Rotometals? I assume you want to bottom pour and not fool around with a ladle, but a pot and gas burner is a much cheaper start than buying a bottom pour pot.

Do you have a dedicated location in which to work? Without this I would not recommend you start, it is messy and you need a dedicated place. Are there children around? Lead in it's elemental form does not transfer well, but kids put everything in their mouths.

You are talking about a lot of shooting a month. Are you a competitive shooter? If so you need to read several of the threads on casting for the 9mm. It is not something you pick up and do well the first time. There is a learning curve and success on a competitive level will not come quickly or easily.

The Lee sizer does not lube, it sizes only. If you want to get into this cheap I would suggest you look for used equipment, especially a lubesizer. Lots of 45's and 450's appear on eBay, and frequently you will find the RCBS machine which is similar and slightly stronger. They don't really wear out.

[Rich22]

Richer,

Answers in red below.



Take care,

Dave

Dave, thankfully I know and have the vast majority of the safety equipment needed and will get the rest before anything else, wife is a nurse she has told me that if I do this and mess myself up that the stuff is history and I really cannot fault her on that.

I am not at all looking for the cheapest way into this, In fact I do not want to get into this and have to rebuy things because I went too cheap, if the quality justifies the price than so be it. I will definitly look at tumble lube as I have not read about that much.

Wayne

While it is likely that at some point I will be smelting all the sources around here seem to be out of WW or they want simply too much for them. I have found several sources of pre smelted lead for very little more than I would have to pay for WW and factoring in even a small amount for time it is well worth it to simply pay the .90 or 1.00 a pound and not have to do that part. If I can find a good amount of WW or other lead than I will get into the other things needed.

One question I did have, why is it not workable to simply use another pot like the lee to smelt in, I understand not using the one that you will be casting out of due to cleanliness but don't know why I would need to change types. You are correct about not wanting to mess around with a ladle, If I have to spend an extra 50 bucks to not have to do that so be it.

No children at all, dog yes but she would not be in a place to access the equipment and certainly not be anywhere near when it is running, three car garage and large back porch with concrete pad makes for lot of good options.

Not a competitive shooter except for the occassional match but this is my only hobby so between the wife and me, we can shoot a good amount. No issue with good used equipment and I will keep a look out for that.

Appreciate the info guys, keep it coming I am learning quite a bit.

Rich

[Jon]

You can smelt in the electric pot, but it is pretty slow, and tends to gum up the valve with crud. If you are smelting wheel weights, it's not too bad, but trying to smelt range lead isn't worth it.

I have the LEE 10lb pot, and while it's ok, I would go for the 20lb. It's not that much more expensive, and doesn't run out as fast. 10lbs of lead doesn't last long when you're pouring 230gr 45ACP in a 6-cavity mold.

I would highly recommend getting some clean ingots from somewhere to start with. That way you are starting with some known good lead.

The tumble lube works fine for 45 and 38. I haven't tried the 9mm yet. It does tend to be a little tacky, but it's not a big deal. Molds are cheap enough, that if you want to go to regular lube later you can. The expense of a lubrisizer or trouble of pan lubing never interested me. I bought a sizer, but found that they were fine as cast most of the time. I don't even use it anymore since the bad ones are usually pretty obvious.

You don't need that much to get started. If you have a pot and mold, you have most of what you need. I use a candle for flux, and a long spoon to stir with.

[Wayne Smith]

If you are using clean ingots you do not need 'smelting' equipment. That would be down the road for you if ever. I would not invest in less that a 20 lb pot with the amount of casting you are talking about. Both of my lube sizers, one RCBS and one Lyman 450, were bought off eBay. I have bought used equipment from members here as well. I just purchased another set of Lyman 44 dies from eBay, gave one away and the other doesn't have the M die. Most of my die sets are from that source.

With both you and your wife shooting get her involved in the casting and reloading too. It's fascinating to take molten metal and make something useful with it.

[runfiverun]

the lee's are just push through sizers buuuut with the tumble lube you will want something to size with and the lee sizers work with that system.
the mold i mentioned is a rn flat point.
you are thinking of mimicking jaxketed bullets there are some molds that do thiis pretty well [i even have some] however the one that shoots the best for me and several others are molds made for the 38 special. [100-125 rnfp's]
most 9m bbl's i have measured have been closer to 3565/357 rather than the 355 they saami spec[thier bullets to] to.

[Rich22]

Plan on getting nice clean ingots for the start, Here is a question I just thought of. Having not slugged my bores yet I obviously cannot get the mold and sizer but I have several 9mm's to cast for, I read that I need to size .001-.002 over but if there are several barrels with what I am currently assuming different sizes unless I am lucky, how do you do this?

I read a sticky about tumble lube on here, if it is as simple as it looks why on earth would people do it any other way?

My only issue with the Lee sizer is that after the purchase of a press to put it on since I doubt it would work in my LNL AP from what I have seen, I nearly may as well get a lubesizer depending how much the die's are for those.

Thanks for the info guys

Rich


You can smelt in the electric pot, but it is pretty slow, and tends to gum up the valve with crud. If you are smelting wheel weights, it's not too bad, but trying to smelt range lead isn't worth it.

I have the LEE 10lb pot, and while it's ok, I would go for the 20lb. It's not that much more expensive, and doesn't run out as fast. 10lbs of lead doesn't last long when you're pouring 230gr 45ACP in a 6-cavity mold.

I would highly recommend getting some clean ingots from somewhere to start with. That way you are starting with some known good lead.

The tumble lube works fine for 45 and 38. I haven't tried the 9mm yet. It does tend to be a little tacky, but it's not a big deal. Molds are cheap enough, that if you want to go to regular lube later you can. The expense of a lubrisizer or trouble of pan lubing never interested me. I bought a sizer, but found that they were fine as cast most of the time. I don't even use it anymore since the bad ones are usually pretty obvious.

You don't need that much to get started. If you have a pot and mold, you have most of what you need. I use a candle for flux, and a long spoon to stir with.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have several 9mm's to cast for, I read that I need to size .001-.002 over but if there are several barrels with what I am currently assuming different sizes unless I am lucky, how do you do this?

I read a sticky about tumble lube on here, if it is as simple as it looks why on earth would people do it any other way?
I cast boolits for 9mm and size to .357 and lube with a beeswax based Lube (randyrat's Tak#1) and I have good luck with all the 9mm's in my stable.
I like the Lee 358125 RF mold, mine drops at .359 so sizing down to .357 in a no brainer. I also use the Ranchdog TL356135, this is a tumble lube boolit with Ranchdogs larger lube grooves, I use 45-45-10 to tumble lube them and I also don't load them very hot...just above what it takes to reliably cycle my Ruger P89.

9mm Luger and 40 S&W are High pressure cartridges and can be troublesome when using tumble lube...meaning a high likelihood of Lead fouling in the barrel.
Jon

[Wayne Smith]

You can do a search on slugging a barrel and you will get lots of info, especially on how not to do it. Essentially you need pure lead, usually an oval fishing sinker with a hole through it. Remove the barrel from your gun, oil it well, and tap the sinker into the barrel, creating a ring of lead that won't go through. Take a piece of brass rod and push this though, you can put another rod in from the other end and make sure it is squished tight in the bore, push it through and measure with a micrometer, not a caliper.

[Rich22]

You can do a search on slugging a barrel and you will get lots of info, especially on how not to do it. Essentially you need pure lead, usually an oval fishing sinker with a hole through it. Remove the barrel from your gun, oil it well, and tap the sinker into the barrel, creating a ring of lead that won't go through. Take a piece of brass rod and push this though, you can put another rod in from the other end and make sure it is squished tight in the bore, push it through and measure with a micrometer, not a caliper.

I did a thread on that a week or so ago so I am good to go there with how to do it. just wondering what to do if they come back all as significantly different.

[I'll Make Mine]

I did a thread on that a week or so ago so I am good to go there with how to do it. just wondering what to do if they come back all as significantly different.

Often, you can just size your boolits for the largest -- if the resulting rounds will chamber in all the guns, you're good to go (unless you load right up to the absolute limit, the pressure rise from swaging down an oversize boolit isn't a big deal).

[MT Chambers]

waage pot
Lyman 4 cav. molds, or molds from NOE, Accurate..stay away from HP molds at first.
RCBS lubesizer
Don't cheap out.

[Wayne Smith]

As long as you can chamber it, you can shoot it if it's cast. Your issue usually isn't a boolit too big, it's one too small. I'm shooting an old group buy 314440 in my 30-30's. It takes a little effort to close the bolt because the nose is engraving as the cartridge chambers. No problem with the boolit pulling, but this is a big boolit. It is also very accurate.