about pan lubing, what to use for cutters?

[trickyasafox]

So i got a brick of lube (thanks 357 maximum!) and i'm going to try pan lubing some boolits. A quick search tells me that most people try to push them out of the lube while the lube is still soft from heating.

My question is, if i miss that point and dont reheat, what can i use to cut the boolits out?

for .357 diameter bullets, i was going to try a 9mm mak case, but for 45acp, i don't have any cases that are close in diameter. does anyone know if i could go to a home depot and get a short section of tubing that would work?

does anyone know what OD tubing will give me a pretty close ID necessary to cut the bullets free? also, is that mak case a bad idea for the .357 diameter boolits?

thanks!

mike

[Scrounger]

So i got a brick of lube (thanks 357 maximum!) and i'm going to try pan lubing some boolits. A quick search tells me that most people try to push them out of the lube while the lube is still soft from heating.

My question is, if i miss that point and dont reheat, what can i use to cut the boolits out?

for .357 diameter bullets, i was going to try a 9mm mak case, but for 45acp, i don't have any cases that are close in diameter. does anyone know if i could go to a home depot and get a short section of tubing that would work?

does anyone know what OD tubing will give me a pretty close ID necessary to cut the bullets free? also, is that mak case a bad idea for the .357 diameter boolits?

thanks!

mike

.45-70 case? Or .45 Colt or even a fired .45ACP case. Put a spring about as big around as the case and almost as long in it. When you've "cut" the bullet loose, the spring will help move the case up away from the bullet.

[357maximum]

If you miss the magic stage with that lube a kake cutter will not be much use to you, trust me. You'll do just fine, just try it, the "PLASTIC" stage of that lube is a long gradually going away one...you have alot of time with it....experimenting will show you more than I can tell you from afar.......I can get you a cake cutter if you end up needing on in the future, just holler.......theres alot of 35 caliber stuff around here for some reason or another.....

[Scrounger]

So i got a brick of lube (thanks 357 maximum!) and i'm going to try pan lubing some boolits. A quick search tells me that most people try to push them out of the lube while the lube is still soft from heating.

My question is, if i miss that point and dont reheat, what can i use to cut the boolits out?

for .357 diameter bullets, i was going to try a 9mm mak case, but for 45acp, i don't have any cases that are close in diameter. does anyone know if i could go to a home depot and get a short section of tubing that would work?

does anyone know what OD tubing will give me a pretty close ID necessary to cut the bullets free? also, is that mak case a bad idea for the .357 diameter boolits?

thanks!

mike

.45-70 case? Or .45 Colt or even a fired .45ACP case. Put a spring about as big around as the case and almost as long in it. When you've "cut" the bullet loose, the spring will help move the case up away from the bullet. A .357 or .357 Mag case will be easier to work with than the Mak case.

[trickyasafox]

thanks everyone!

[Goatlips]

Hay Trickey,

Try cutting one out of a tapered golf club shaft. They're nearly free. A bit more on cutters here:

http://goatlipstips.cas-town.com/panlubing.html

Goatlips

[ben1025]

Cut the base off a fired case and soder it to a copper pipe. The case is the correct size cutter and the copper pipe makes a reservoir. ben1025

[joeb33050]

So i got a brick of lube (thanks 357 maximum!) and i'm going to try pan lubing some boolits. A quick search tells me that most people try to push them out of the lube while the lube is still soft from heating.

thanks!

mike

Darr lube = 1/2 paraffin and 1/2 Vaseline and maybe a spoon of RCBS case lube; and pan lubes like this: Melt, cool to room temp, to the freezer for ~3 minutes or until the cake of lube and bullets falls out of the pan, warm to room temp, push the bullets out. The cake can be kept at room temp for days/ever, and the bullets push right out.
After buying more-beeswax-than-I'll-ever-use I started mixing and adding, and made some pan lubes that would NEVER come out of the pan after hours in the freezer, and/or that the bullets couldn't be pushed out of while keeping the grooves full.
Summary: Darr pan lubes easily, I haven't found anything else that works as well during the process.
Darr lube works fine for me rifle to ~1600 fps, M29 pistol to where it hurts.
I don't know WHY this pan lubing problem is, I do know that it is, and I don't know another pan lube that works as well-the process-as Darr.
joe brennan

[357maximum]

Do not take this the wrong way but I do not believe he was seeking a lube recipe. He has that, and there is no parraffin in it.

Some other people have done their homework geared towards accurately shooting cast and consistantly shooting cast like most would shoot jacketed rounds:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1559&d=1148836069

Go here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=15906
Pay special attention to post #8 by BaBore, read it and re-read it until it makes sense to you.

A 1lb ball peen hammer may be an EASY tool to use and that is fine, unless you are knocking down a concrete wall, then a better tool would be a 16pound sledge hammer, and even though it may not be as friendly to use, it works a whole lot better. You need to match the "TOOL" to the application at hand, whether it is easy or not...it will always be better.

[joeb33050]

"Do not take this the wrong way but I do not believe he was seeking a lube recipe. He has that, and there is no parraffin in it."

I guess I wasn't clear. The "right" pan lube is easy to use, the bullets easily push out, and the lube works. With the right lube one does not need any Kake Kutter, and accuracy is maintained. I see that you sent the poster the lube. Maybe he would find that Darr lube works equally as well-it does for many of us.


Go here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=15906
Pay special attention to post #8 by BaBore, read it and re-read it until it makes sense to you.

I went there, I read it, I understand it, and I'd like to see people average <1" 3 shot hunting rifle 100 yard groups or <1" 25 yard revolver groups. That's average. Not those "wallet" groups.
BABore says "Every caliber, barrel, and bullet combination will show a preference."; and I heartily disagree. The notion that there is one and only one magic combination yielding accuracy for any given gun is nonsense. This notion has a lot of adherants, is used for an excuse, and seems aimed at making the cast bullet business much more mysterious than it is. I would contend, and I did, that within broad limits the cast bullet lubricant choice does not affect accuracy, and THAT is why there is no agreement on a or even a few common lubes in the CBA match results. Contriving to explain this lack of consistency on that "every gun is different" foolishness merely compounds the error.
If anyone have evidence to the conjtrary, I'd like to see it. I'd suggest that the NRA Alox formula be the "standard", the lube to beat. Let's see the 5 5-shot groups at 100 yards with NRA and the "better" lube, everything else being equal.





"Most lubes are equal"
joe brennan

[Dragoon]

I would much rather pan lube with Darr lube than use a lubrisizer. My problem was the Darr lube wasn't working with my rifle/bullet/load. LBT Blue soft works better for me. I sure hate messing with that sizer though.

[357maximum]

"Most lubes are equal"
joe brennan

OK,then I'll just agree to disagree

[leftiye]

Joe, So you're saying that lubes haven't improved in fifty plus years (maybe we should all use deer lard, and beeswax)? The consensus is that many of the newer lubes are much better than the 50/50 formula, not to put the NRA formula down or anything. This would be especially in the higher velocity area with cast. Things go much faster now than they did 20 years ago even.

[joeb33050]

Joe, So you're saying that lubes haven't improved in fifty plus years (maybe we should all use deer lard, and beeswax)?

Did I say that? Where? Darr lube is a slight modification of a Walnut Hill lube mentioned well over 100 years ago. Still works fine.

The consensus is that many of the newer lubes are much better than the 50/50 formula, not to put the NRA formula down or anything. This would be especially in the higher velocity area with cast. Things go much faster now than they did 20 years ago even.

Consensus? Who consented? Where? I don't knoiw if the NRA formula can be bested by another lube, for accuracy, at higher velocities. And I can't find anyone who's done the testing required to tell me. And I'm not sure that for accuracy shooting, or even for hunting, that we're shooting faster today than 20 or even 40 years ago. I remember Rifleman articles with ?2500 fps? cast GC loads from the 50s.

All I am saying is that I have not seen and can't find any evidence that one lube is "better" than another, and that the CBA equipment lists show a wide variation in lubes used. I'd like to see some testing of, for instance,. Felix lube vs. NRA.
joe brennan

[waksupi]

Sounds like a good summer project for you, Joe.

[BABore]

"Most lubes are equal"
joe brennan


BABore says "Every caliber, barrel, and bullet combination will show a preference."; and I heartily disagree. Does this mean that you've done the testing yourself, or simply parroted other people's notions The notion that there is one and only one magic combination yielding accuracy for any given gun is nonsense. This notion has a lot of adherants,Yes! Those who strive for ultimate accuracy is used for an excuse,for one hole groups and seems aimed at making the cast bullet business much more mysterious than it is. Excuses for what?? I've got the data to back it up, as do most other serious shooters I would contend, and I did, that within broad limits the cast bullet lubricant choice does not affect accuracy,Based on what? and THAT is why there is no agreement on a or even a few common lubes in the CBA match results. Contriving to explain this lack of consistency on that "every gun is different" foolishness merely compounds the error.Especially if you refuse to try it yourself
If anyone have evidence to the conjtrary, I'd like to see it. I'd suggest that the NRA Alox formula be the "standard", the lube to beat. Let's see the 5 5-shot groups at 100 yards with NRA and the "better" lube, everything else being equal.

The cast bullet fraternity doesn't revolve around 1,500-1,600 fps nor the CBA bandwagon. Lube requirements aren't very demanding at that velocity. That's why the older information and manuals all tell you to stay below 1,800 fps for best accuracy. This is pure BS and many here have proven this to themselves. It simply requires more effort than reading the latest match record or equipment list.

[jonk]

I only pan lube for my black powder cartridges as I don't want to try to drain all the smokeless lube from my lube sizer, and LLA doesn't do so well with black powder. I use a once fired case cut off at the base. Before I cut it off I flared the mouth generously in my Lee universal expander die. This works well with longer rifle cases, but for pistol, it would be a tad hard to hold on to that short shaft and keep pushing it through. Some of the ideas listed above look good, but I think personally I'll stick to either my lube sizer or LLA for pistol bullets.

[357maximum]

Bruce, you are wasting your time.


Closed minds will never find the things they do not seek.