Are Ballisti-Cast moulds true Keith bullet?

[inFALable]

Does anyone have a definitive answer as to whether Ballisticasts are true Keith?

Thanks


Oops, that title should say boolit. Long time caster, first time poster.

[Lloyd Smale]

There are so many swcs listed on ballistic casts sight that its hard to answer that one. I know that the 41 mag mold i have from them is about identical to the lyman 41 kieth bullet and ive got a custom mold made by them thats a .512 kieth designed bullet. Alot of people dont realize that ballistic cast will work with you on custom designs too. I think there was a 25 dollar charge over there standard mold price to do it.

[Sundogg1911]

I recently purchased a few ballisti-cast molds for use in a machine (in my case a Magma Master Caster) the .44 mould looks like a Keith design and really casts some nice boolits. My Lyman mold is almost identical. Is there any way to tell if it's a true "Keith" mold?

[Shuz]

I'm curious about all the "fuss" or concern about whether a .44 swc that "looks like a Keith design" is really a Keith design. I've been shooting and casting with various 429421 moulds for over 40 years and I've come to the conclusion that if, in the case of Lyman, the mould is stamped 429421, it will shoot as well as any other 429421, as long as the dimensions, fit the gun being used. I will say that the round lube groove designs drop from the moulds easier than the square designs and I find myself utilizing my round groove designs much more than the square groove as a result. The square groove design holds about .2g more lube, but I've never noticed that it either detracted or added to anything. Perhaps the "fuss" is all about nostalgia and wanting to use exactly what ol Elmer used.

[felix]

Ray, I agree wholeheartedly. Round grooves kick **** because they drop from the mold most easily and shoot better because of this. Boolits are more consistent across the board. Naturally, exceptions often exist. On the other hand, I like nose profiles that never hiccup upon loading in any kind of gun, and sometimes that leaves the Keith design, or any kind of wadcutter, out into the cold. ... felix

[Sundogg1911]

In my case I'm just saying that it looks like one, and shoots like one, so I don't know how you would tell or why you would care. They don't come with a Certificate of Authenticity [smilie=1: When I bought mine, it was advertised as a Keith mould, but I only take that to mean Keith style mould, not necessarily as Designed by Elmer Himself.

[inFALable]

Thanks guys. I already cast RCBS's version of Keith's design. I don't think it is exactly the same as Elmer's. As someone else said I just want it exactly like Elmer's for the sake of tradition. I certainly agree that round grooves drop easier and that a boolit that drops easy in theory has had a less stressful life than one that has been "knocked" out of the mould therefore more round.

Thanks again.

[Firebird]

I believe that BallistiCast bought out H&G, who were making Keith's designs after Lyman changed what Keith had originally designed, getting Keith pretty mad at Lyman. Not just the round versus flat lube groove, but decreasing the diameter of the front driving band so the bullet wouldn't cause loading problems in a gun with a tight chamber throat. Of course this also meant the bullet didn't fit any gun anymore, which is what Keith got so mad about. So BallistiCast does have the genuine Keith designs, I'm just not sure if they changed anything with them like Lyman did or not.

[45r]

I read somewhere that ELMER would have made his mold drop boolits around 20 grains heavier if he did a remake of his classic mold.I think a 275 grain boolit like the 270 saa 45 colt would be perfect.

[inFALable]

45r, I read that too. I too, like a 270-ish boolit in the .44 Mag and Spl. I've almost convinced myself many times to get a .45 Mtn gun just to shoot Scovill's 270 SAA.

[GLL]

I have six 4-cavity Ballisti-Cast moulds in SWC style. Three of these are"Original Keith designs" according to the company and they certainly look it .

Ballisti-Cast #1103 250gr. Keith (= H&G # 503) .44

Ballisti-Cast #926 270gr. (no H&G equivalent) .44

Ballisti-Cast #643 173gr. Keith (= H&G #43) .38

Ballisti-Cast #651 160gr. (= H&G #51) .38

Ballisti-Cast #1101 260gr. Keith (= H&G #501) .45

Ballisti-Cast #1102 240gr. (= H&G #502) .45

All six of these are some of my very favorite moulds. Outstanding craftsmanship and customer service. Each drops beautiful bullets with ease ! A dab of Bullshop Lube and I was making perfect bullets by the bucket full ! :) :)

Not cheap but certainly priced close to several other makers such as NEI.

NOTE 45r ***: The #926 is a 270gr. .44 ! :) :) Drop me a note if you would like a batch to play with !

Jerry

[GLynn41]

Veral Smith is now claiming He is making true Keiths--it seems that a Keith is more in the eye of the be holder

[LAH]

I use both the 1101 & 1103 moulds from Ballisti Cast. They are great bullets. But your question: Are Ballisti-Cast moulds true Keith bullet? That may never be answered. I will however add the below.

What is a real Keith bullet? We had this discussion sometime back. The link is below. I spoke to Mr. Taffin and asked if he thought the email I received was true. While he couldn't say for sure, like me, he had no reason to think it not. Anyway enjoy the read.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=1954&highlight=Real+Keith+Bullets

[Lloyd Smale]

thats about it. I dont know if anyone can really claim to make a true keith bullet. You can only go on what he wrote on it but to be exact to the design is pretty much a matter of what you call it. As to the 421429 i have both molds and have shot both extensively out of many 44s and i mean extensively. My take on it is that it can be made to shoot well but personaly i prefer the rcbs design as its shot better in most guns and shoots better at low velocity in every gun. The 421429 has allways seemed to do a little better when cast on the hard side and pushed hard. Every gun i have with no exception prefers the square lubed grove version to the round lube grove version. To the point that i dont even bother casting the round lube grove bullet anymore and i just hold on the 4 cavity mold hoping figureing someday i might find a gun that prefers it but im not holding my breath.