a paypal rant

[5shotbfr]

i sometimes think i may be a slight bit retarded . but for some reason when i see someone selling something and asking for the buyer to use paypal as a payment service .. and then having the nerve to expect the buyer to add an extra 5% 6% or what ever to pay their fee's just realy ticks me off to no end .

if you dont want to pay the dang fee yourself do not use paypal .. its that easy


dang i dont understand why that ticks me off .. but it does .... to top it off i dont even use paypal

[thx997303]

I guess you don't like cash discounts at gas stations either.

[uscra112]

Many of us, if not most of us, avoid Paypal like the plague. Their nasty attitude toward gun-related stuff is just for starters. So the default mode here is mostly checks, Money Orders, or cash, and asking prices reflect that.

[5shotbfr]

thx ... i fail to see any resemblance between the two

[maglvr]

I look at paying the 3% as paying for the convenience and getting what I bought a week sooner.
I have far more important things to worry about, like teens not knowing enough to pull their pants up, cars with stupid spinning hub caps and why road hunters wear orange! ;)

[bubba.50]

what i don't understand is how any gun-owner can use such an anti-gun service to buy/sell anything.

my opinion & yer welcome to it.

have a good'en neighbors, bubba.

[Alvarez Kelly]

I both buy and sell... If I use USPS money orders, as a buyer, I have to stop working, drive to the Post Office, stand in line, fill out MO and the envelope, stamp the envelope, and wait... As a seller, I have to wait.

If I use PayPal, as a buyer, I click a few keys and it's done. No lost work time, no trip to the post Office, no MO fee, and no stamp. I usually get whatever I paid for within a few days... All that is worth something to me. I am saving time and money. I decide whether it is worth paying the 3% or whatever, or mailing a money order...

As a seller, when a buyer uses PayPal, I get paid right now, print a shipping label immediately, without having to rely on my shaky handwriting, pay for the label using PayPal, and usually I save a bit on postage. The buyer gets their purchases quicker.

As for anti-gun, I think they were just cowards. When a mass murderer bought some of his ammo through EBay, they panicked. They are just pro-money. Has anyone else noticed you can buy more and more gun parts on EBay (the owner of PayPal) now? I even managed to buy some brass here a while back.

[L1A1Rocker]

I know what you mean. I once won a forum auction that was to be paid by descrete paypal (ie gift) that had the hidden charge in it that I was not aware of. I know about it now and consider it in my bids.

[Springfield]

I accept Paypal but never ask for the extra percentage. Why? Because it speeds up the transaction, plus I have some sort of record. And making things easier for the customer is almost always good business. I have enough things going on without trying to remember every transaction I do on the 3-4 boards I deal with. As for being anti-gun, I figure if I refused to deal with every company that didn't agree with all my political views I wouldn't be able to function in this society. If and when they come up with a gun loving equivalent to Paypal I will be glad to use it. The last venture of that type ended up ripping everybody off. PLUS everytime I sneak by a restricted transaction on Paypal I feel I stuck it to them just a little bit.

[thx997303]

thx ... i fail to see any resemblance between the two

The similarity is, the seller sets a price for one method of payment, and the price for another method.

With some gas stations, it's one price for cash, and a higher price if paid with other forms of payment.

With some sellers online, it's one price for checks/pmos/etc. and a higher price for paypal.

They set the price, you decide if you are willing to pay.

Honestly, I don't really like it either, but it isn't going away, and honestly appears to be getting more prevalent.

[5shotbfr]

thx ok i gotcha now .. i am a bit slow , here in ohio a retailer cannot charge more for credit transactions versus cash sales so i was a bit baffled .

i dont have a problem with someone wanting their fee's covered if they prefer other forms of payment .

it is the people who only want paypal and nothing else and still want to charge that extra percentage that burn my butt .

it realy shouldnt bother me as i do not, nor do i ever plan on using paypal .

[Wal']

Except when something you've waited years to find & then turns up on a auction site & they only accept PayPal.

Life's a bitch sometimes.................[smilie=b:

[jcwit]

PayPal is as with everything else can not please everyone all of the time.

Use it if you wish, if you wish not to, don't! Simple solution!!

[shotman]

Well its the best out there so get off your computer and start walking . 20 years ago you old farts said a cell phone was useless. THIS is 2012. get your head back under the rock

[GabbyM]

Pay Pal fee is 3% flat.
I’ve also seen many who charge 4% or even more for using pay pal. There is law on the books making such charges illegal. However like most laws they are not enforced. Since no one at “Homeland Security” is interested. As is the way it should be. Only proper way to deal with those add-ons is to refer back to old Hank Williams Jr. songs . “you can just kiss my ***.”

Any business that can’t take a check needs to move to a county that prosecutes check fraud as a felony which it is. Or just keep paying American Express there 9%. SUCKER

[6bg6ga]

i sometimes think i may be a slight bit retarded . but for some reason when i see someone selling something and asking for the buyer to use paypal as a payment service .. and then having the nerve to expect the buyer to add an extra 5% 6% or what ever to pay their fee's just realy ticks me off to no end .

if you dont want to pay the dang fee yourself do not use paypal .. its that easy


dang i dont understand why that ticks me off .. but it does .... to top it off i dont even use paypal

Why worry about it if you don't use it? I personally buy things using Paypal, sell things using Paypal and live with the fact it cost me. I get my money right away when I sell something and I am protected somewhat when I purchase something.
If you don't like it then don't use it...its really simple. No need to rant or open up a useless thread about what you don't like about Paypal. You said it yourself "to top it off i don't even use paypal. Just my .02

[sav300]

Paypal is the quickest and hopefully the safest way many overseas people can buy and pay with.

[FISH4BUGS]

I have always asked if the seller will take a personal check. I tell them they are welcome to hold the item for a week before shipping to make sure the check clears.
In fact, I also tell them that I will email them an image of the check when it clears the bank (both sides of the check - that way they can see their signature on the back of the check to make sure I am not scamming them).
I also tell them to check my feedback to make sure they are comfortable with the request.
I am not in such a rush for the item that I can't wait another week for delivery. Never had a problem with anyone turning me down. I have bought a bunch of Hensley & Gibbs moulds on EBay that way. Bought a bunch of stuff here too.
I avoid PayPal like the plague.

[btroj]

So you are complaining about a policy that doesn't affect you?

I can think of tons of things in life that have no impact on me that drive me nuts but why? I ignore them, I don't have a dog in the fight so why care?

I have used PayPal. If asked to cover the fee it is my choice to decide if that is how I want to pay. Like someone else said, it is far easier to pay an extra 5 dollars than itis to drive to the PO, wait 20 minute sin line, then go home all to get a money order.

Heck, long as you are ranting, why not rant about individuals who won't take a personal check? Who are they to call me a cheat?

Guys, get a life.

[Trey45]

Something i don't quite understand here, the guys telling 5shot to quit complaining and get a life, is someone forcing you to read this thread? What makes your opinion any more important than his?
The way I see it, if you don't like what someone is saying, instead of trying to make them stop saying it, simply move on to another thread that you do like.
As far as paypal goes, if you don't like it, simply don't use it.

This is a small symptom of a much larger problem, too many people think it's their right to tell others what they can and cannot do, say and think because it doesn't adhere to their own core beliefs.

Look at the anti gun crowd, they don't like guns, they don't want to own one and that's fine, but they also don't want YOU to own one and that's not fine. See where I'm heading with this?

[Jim]

If there's a business between you and the other guy, be it a buyer or seller, you can expect the business to want theirs. That's how commerce works.

Janet and I go to estate sales and we clearly understand that we'll be expected to pay a 'buyer's premium'. That's how the auctioneer gets his.

[GRid.1569]

I can agree with much of what's been said here and would add that I avoid leaving a payment method attached to my PP account as I've had a few "Transactions Declined" e-mail for items I never purchased... I simply add details, do transaction and then delete card details.... just don't want the hassle of trying to get fraudulent transactions reversed....

The O.P. has a point about fees... but if it's declared up front then I'm OK I factor it into the "value assessment"... and to PP's credit I have found it to be a very convenient way to pay for overseas items (outside of the Feebay regime)

[pdawg_shooter]

If the seller requires pay-pal I just walk away. I will NOT use it. But that is just me. It is a lost sale for the seller and I just keep on looking.

[jcwit]

It is a lost sale for the seller and I just keep on looking.

I seriously doubt that bothers the seller to any extent. Why do I feel that way, 50 years in the retail trade, last 20 with my own business.

[blackthorn]

Quote "thx ok i gotcha now .. i am a bit slow , here in ohio a retailer cannot charge more for credit transactions versus cash sales so i was a bit baffled ".

Since retailers pay a "service" cahrge for credit transactions and I can't see any retailer "losing" $, to me, that rule/law is a recipe for the consumer paying the full shot for the most expensive option. As far as pay pal or any other "third party" money service, I won't use them except as a last resort. Most times I can find another way or just forget the item and move on, but to each his own!

[joec]

Well as someone that has a small business credit card charges take 4% using Visa and Master Card. American Express, Diners, Discover and others take up to 6%. Those prices are covered by our rent rates (storage facility) even if you don't use a credit card.

As for PayPal I use it and prefer it on the internet for many things including here. If someone wants 4% more selling used brass if the price is still good not a problem I will pay it and not complain. I much prefer it to using a credit card on line or sending a personal check or money order.

[theperfessor]

As you can see from my sig line I take all forms of payment. I charge the same price no matter how anyone pays. It costs me gas and time to go to the bank and deposit checks or MOs, with Paypal I have the money right away. Probably 95%+ of my sales are through Paypal. It has allowed me to sell to the UK, Australia, and the Phillipines with no currency hassles.

It also speeds up transactions. I ship 99% of my orders within two business days of getting a paid order. Pay me with Paypal on Monday and I'll have your order out by Wednesday and you'll have it by the end of the week. Send me a check or MO and it usually takes two days to get it in my hands. Mail it Monday and you'll probably get your order next Monday at the soonest.

Anti - gun? Everything I sell is for reloaders and shooters, and w/o Paypal I (and many other small vendors) wouldn't have a business. THAT would be a victory for the anti-gun crowd.

I'm not a fan-boy of Paypal, but right now, like it or not, it's the best game in town.

[5shotbfr]

i paid real close attention to springfield and theperfessor as to why and how they use paypal .

i understand perfectly why they and millions of others use paypal its easy its safe it works its a conveniance , yup i get it .

but look they use it without the me me me i want everything for free mentality

is that ethics or morals i dont know but something tells me its the right way to do things .
and expecting someone else to pay to make your life easier isnt .

[45-70bpcr]

It tweaks me a little when the seller expects all the PayPal fees to be covered by the buyer. It is after all a convenience for them also, as the theperfessor points out. But on a $70 or less item is works out as a wash for me if I the buyer has to cover the 3% versus buying a pain in the butt Postal money order and a stamp. What I refuse to do is submit the purchase as a "Gift" to work around PayPal's fees. Lots of sellers ask for this and I won't do it. If you don't want to pay for the service don't use it. Also this is a bad idea because you have no recourse if you never receive your merchandise. How can you contact PayPal and complain if the money was sent as a "Gift"?

[Alvarez Kelly]

Pay Pal fee is 3% flat.


That's not completely accurate. It's 30 cents, plus 3%. The 30 cents isn't a big deal on a high dollar purchase, but it can be on very small purchases.

As a buyer, I will mail a USPS money order to save 3% on a large purchases. I'll probably use PayPal on anything under $100 or so. It's a trade off between the cost of gas to drive the Post Office, the cost of the money order fee, the stamp , and the value of my time, compared to the PayPal fee.

This is not a one size fits all issue. The "correct" answer depends on how much time you have, how much money you are willing to spend, and maybe even how far away the Post Office is.

[Alvarez Kelly]

What I refuse to do is submit the purchase as a "Gift" to work around PayPal's fees. Lots of sellers ask for this and I won't do it. If you don't want to pay for the service don't use it. Also this is a bad idea because you have no recourse if you never receive your merchandise. How can you contact PayPal and complain if the money was sent as a "Gift"?

I couldn't agree more. In addition, if someone pays me with a "gift", I can't ship using PayPal, so all the convenience to ME goes out the window.

I prefer NOT to get "gifts." Unless you really just want to send me some free money. :-)

[jonas302]

I have seen some really high percentages for paypal asked for here in the swapping section I don't mind paying the fee for a good deal between freinds Every card I swipe at the shop costs money thats part of bussiness

I pretty much hate going to get money orders and it has to be a very very good deal for me to go get one

As far as paypal being antigun pretty much the entire computor world and internet are Obamas anti gun but I don't move out of the USA

[Alvarez Kelly]

I pretty much hate going to get money orders and it has to be a very very good deal for me to go get one


I'm with you there. I pass on stuff sold on Gunbroker all the time, precisely because the seller only takes USPS money orders.

I still buy from forum members who request USPS money orders, but that is just like keepng it in the family. Somehow, it's not as annoying. :-)

[Recluse]

I accept Paypal but never ask for the extra percentage. Why? Because it speeds up the transaction, plus I have some sort of record. And making things easier for the customer is almost always good business. I have enough things going on without trying to remember every transaction I do on the 3-4 boards I deal with. As for being anti-gun, I figure if I refused to deal with every company that didn't agree with all my political views I wouldn't be able to function in this society. If and when they come up with a gun loving equivalent to Paypal I will be glad to use it. The last venture of that type ended up ripping everybody off. PLUS everytime I sneak by a restricted transaction on Paypal I feel I stuck it to them just a little bit.

Sums it up for me.

I accept Paypal for my signed books but do not add a percentage or transaction fee. That strikes me as kind of chicken-sierra to add three percent cost for something you're wanting to sell.

Sellers can factor in the transaction fee into their selling price and nobody would ever be the wiser--but having a buyer "add" that percentage into the price? I generally pass those kinds of sellers right on by and never look twice.

And like Springfield, I thoroughly enjoy selling a resoundingly PRO-GUN novel via a payment service that is afraid of guns.

Gives ME a tingle up my leg. :)


Paypal is the quickest and hopefully the safest way many overseas people can buy and pay with.

I've sent out signed copies of my book to countries where they couldn't order via Borders or Barnes & Noble or even Amazon. And while the shipping and customs fee often exceed the cover price of the book, the only viable way to exchange funds is Paypal.

It's a business decision and if you want to succeed in business, one of the first things you learn is the more you restrict the way a customer can pay, the less likely you are to do business with that customer.

:coffee:

[frkelly74]

I have toyed with the idea of going back to p-p but have not yet. I may now be persuaded to do so. The tingle factor is interesting I must say, And I know it's a hassle to get USPS money orders, but they are pretty secure, At least they always ask me to ID myself when I cash them, but still they cost people money and time to get. So I guess I'm almost convinced.

[DLCTEX]

Sums it up for me.

I accept Paypal for my signed books but do not add a percentage or transaction fee. That strikes me as kind of chicken-sierra to add three percent cost for something you're wanting to sell.

Sellers can factor in the transaction fee into their selling price and nobody would ever be the wiser--but having a buyer "add" that percentage into the price? I generally pass those kinds of sellers right on by and never look twice.

And like Springfield, I thoroughly enjoy selling a resoundingly PRO-GUN novel via a payment service that is afraid of guns.

Gives ME a tingle up my leg. :)



I've sent out signed copies of my book to countries where they couldn't order via Borders or Barnes & Noble or even Amazon. And while the shipping and customs fee often exceed the cover price of the book, the only viable way to exchange funds is Paypal.

It's a business decision and if you want to succeed in business, one of the first things you learn is the more you restrict the way a customer can pay, the less likely you are to do business with that customer.

:coffee:

I agree, let the seller add the cost of pay pal to the price as part of the price without trying to fool the buyer that he is getting a better deal than he is.

[bearcove]

You don't have to send as a gift. You can send it as money owed. If you want you can add the 3%. I'd rather not give anymore than I have to to the Ebay/Paypal anti gun billionaires.

[runfiverun]

we used to have to eat 6 boxes of cereal,save the tops,and save up the 48 cents plus bum a stamp off our mom.
then put all that in the mail and wait 4 to 6 weeks to get x-ray glasses or some sea monkeys.
now, we whine about waiting over a week for a two way transaction to go through.
yeah this country has nothing to worry about with leaders such as us out front.

[RobS]

I've asked for different forms of payment as a seller and I've used paypal gift as well as USPS money order and the occasional a personal check if I know the forum member. Since it doesn't mean a hoot to me, I often leave the payment details to the buyer. Lower end transactions, the cost is about the same as a paypal payment with 3% by the time a person purchases the money order and then mails it out. When I purchase something that a seller requires a money order for I will send it out with some sort of tracking or insurance (larger MO's for insurance) so in case of the occasional lost mail everyone is on the same page. Of course if a paypal is used with the gift option it's less expense on the buyer.

Simply put it's up to the seller's terms and if the buyer doesn't like set terms then there isn't a transaction. It's really not that difficult and to each his own.

[Fishman]

I don't charge any extra for a buyer using Paypal because it's convenient for me too and I get my money sooner. Pretty much what Theperfessor said. I also don't use the gift option any more because I think it is cheating. It matters not if you hate Paypal or love it, stealing their service is wrong. I also don't have a problem with sellers charging me the Paypal fees as a buyer. If that's the approach they want to take it is their choice. I've got plenty of more important things to worry about.

I did see an ad on here the other day that requested an 8% fee for Paypal purchases. I have to admit that that one made me pause. Since it's a free country (so far), I just moved right along.

[montana_charlie]

It tweaks me a little when the seller expects all the PayPal fees to be covered by the buyer. It is after all a convenience for them also,
Yeah, and it tweaks me when a store owner puts pricing on his goods that makes me pay for his lights and heating ... and maintenance of his silly parking lot.

After all, those are just conveniences for him and his employees ...

[scb]

It is after all a convenience for them also, as the theperfessor points out.

How so? I'm selling something you want. You say you want to buy it and we come to an agreement on price. You have to pay for it. I doesn't matter to me if I ship it the next day because you paid for it with Paypal, or ship it the day your certified payment arrives, or ship it 2 weeks after your personal check clears. The "work" on my end is all the same. The only difference is YOU get it sooner.

[frkelly74]

I think ol Montana might have had his tongue in his cheek possibly. But i could be wrong.

[alrighty]

As you can see from my sig line I take all forms of payment. I charge the same price no matter how anyone pays. It costs me gas and time to go to the bank and deposit checks or MOs, with Paypal I have the money right away. Probably 95%+ of my sales are through Paypal. It has allowed me to sell to the UK, Australia, and the Phillipines with no currency hassles.

It also speeds up transactions. I ship 99% of my orders within two business days of getting a paid order. Pay me with Paypal on Monday and I'll have your order out by Wednesday and you'll have it by the end of the week. Send me a check or MO and it usually takes two days to get it in my hands. Mail it Monday and you'll probably get your order next Monday at the soonest.

Anti - gun? Everything I sell is for reloaders and shooters, and w/o Paypal I (and many other small vendors) wouldn't have a business. THAT would be a victory for the anti-gun crowd.

I'm not a fan-boy of Paypal, but right now, like it or not, it's the best game in town.
That is the bottom line , they are the best game in town right now.It irks me to pay a fee but it is my choice when I do as a buyer.I would hate it worst if they only accepted USPS money orders.It irks me to have to kill 20 minutes getting a money order as well , but again it is my choice.If I was to type everything that burns my butt my fingers would be bleeding.:bigsmyl2:

[rbuck351]

I don't like it when the seller only takes PP and requires the buyer to pay for it. I don't have a PP card, account or what ever it is and have no intention of ever getting one. If I can't pay with either cash, MO, check or debit card then I will buy from someone else. Also if you can't or won't send it postal flat rate, I'll buy local as any other form of shipping is brutally expensive. I quit using ebay a few years back as well. Life is to short to do business with folks I DON'T LIKE. There's even a local gun shop I won't enter because I don't like the folks there. But, you can do as you wish. Isn't America great?

[500MAG]

i sometimes think i may be a slight bit retarded . but for some reason when i see someone selling something and asking for the buyer to use paypal as a payment service .. and then having the nerve to expect the buyer to add an extra 5% 6% or what ever to pay their fee's just realy ticks me off to no end .

if you dont want to pay the dang fee yourself do not use paypal .. its that easy


dang i dont understand why that ticks me off .. but it does .... to top it off i dont even use paypal

As far as this forum goes, I totally disagree with you. As a long time ebayer, I love paypals convenience. Forum members, in the swapping section, normally prefer a MO, if you choose the convenience some ask you to pay the fee. If you have a problem with that, buy your reloading stuff on ebay. Forum member asking prices have saved me a fortune. Why do you think most items are snapped up out of the swapping section so quickly?

[Geraldo]

If you transfer money there usually isn't a charge. If you use a credit card there is. The seller gets charged based on how the buyer funds the purchase, so I ask for 3% on credit card deals. If I don't get charged I don't ask for fees.

[sav300]

Paypal for me is quick and to use an international money order to the states is a $35 charge on top of the amount.

[Wal']

Yeah, but PayPal get us International buyers as well, their exchange rate from AUD to USD is always at least 2 cents below the going rate.

But then, thats free enterprise, every one makes an extra buck.

[cajun shooter]

As far as using Pay Pal it's up to the person that is buying or selling but the actual fee is 4%. That is .04 cents on a dollar. If you are selling a item for $50 and say you only take USPS MO then I will pass on that item. The reason for me is that Pay Pal does two positive things where I'm concered. I'm disabled and we only have one vehicle for my wife and I. To go to the USPS it cost me fuel, the price of the MO and fuel back home. I then have to wait for the MO to arrive which is normally 5 days. Then I wait for the seller to go and send the package.
I have made many purchases that are close to 21 days from start to finish using this method.
Now if I use Pay Pal and let's just say I pay the 4% , that comes to a total of a whopping $2.00 extra.
I will bet you that my cost for fuel and the price of a money order is more than that plus the time delay in receiving the item I can't do with out.
When I buy anything I want it now, not some 15 or more days down the road.
My daddy always told me when my strong mind got me into trouble; son your cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Pay Pal may not be the most favorite group of people in town. But when I can use a service that saves me money and time and has that item being mailed out the very same day I made my purchase , I all in.
Make your stand against them if you wish, that is why we are America but don't put me down when I decide it's right for me.
When you die, they will not have a single soul there who gives you credit for refusing to save money by not paying a extra $2 for a item on sale.

[jcwit]

Exactly how I feel. They have their rules, "I may not totally agree with them" but they offer a service and it works very well and fast.

[Wal']

The seller should just include the Paypal fee within his listed price & no more be said of it.

If the buyer doesn't like the price, nobody's twisting his arm. :smile:

:cbpour:

[Alvarez Kelly]

The seller should just include the Paypal fee within his listed price & no more be said of it.

If the buyer doesn't like the price, nobody's twisting his arm. :smile:

:cbpour:

I'm not a dealer, but I do use the Swappin n Sellin section a lot, going both ways... I guess what I mean is I don't have anything with a "suggested retail price" to market. I will offer my goods at a fair price, often under market value just to pass on stuff I can't use. I'm not going to loose another 3% for the privilege.

So.. I'll continue to charge 3% for folks who choose to use PayPal.

You are asking me to discontinue, what is in effect, a "cash"discount to folks who don't care to use PayPal. Doesn't seem fair to me.

But like you said, nobody's twisting anybody's arm. :-)

[Wal']

Well maybe I should have put it another way & suggest you give a discount to buyers not using Paypal.

Comes across better than a listing showing an extra charge for a Paypal user.

Everyone is happier getting a discount than an extra charge. :-)

:cbpour:

[Frozone]

Exactly.

Many credit card services have a clause in the contract that you can't boost the price by the CC company fee.
Many gun shops get around this by giving a 'cash' discount.

I take Paypal, and I prefer it
I use the invoicing system to keep orders straight,
I pay for many of the supplies by Paypal,

Overseas orders can be very costly. Many times the shipping/payment costs have equaled the costs of the product!! It can cost $50 just for a 'wiretransfer' of money to an overseas vendor. That's a considerable addition to a $250 - $500 order! then add $100 shipping on top of that.

In fact, out of all the sales so far, only ~ 5% have been 'money order's.
So it would seem that those who are Paypal paranoid are in the vast minority.

BTW Paypal fees are 2.9% + $0.30.
As long as you're selling $100+ items then 3% works, and is comparable to a CC company fee without the monthly usage fee (~$50 - $75) for the CC unit.
But sell $2 items and the fees add up quick!

[montana_charlie]

So it would seem that those who are Paypal paranoid are in the vast minority.
I never use smilies, but that comment deserves one. :lol:

CM