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Saint
10-04-2012, 01:33 PM
I am finding it hard to get the right size roundball for some of my guns and was wondering if anyone here has ever tried casting them from WW and if so what where your results. I have a hard time getting them in 32 caliber so I am thinking of getting a mold and making them. The other thing I could do if need be is buy commercial roundballs in a caliber I can find and melt them down for the lead. Any thoughts?

Boerrancher
10-04-2012, 02:23 PM
I have shot a lot of PRBs made from WWs. My favorite alloy is a 50/50 mix of WW and Pure, I use it for everything including round balls. The only thing I have noticed with ones cast of of WW is that may drop a bit larger than pure lead will. Just use a thinner patch if they drop larger than you would like. My little 32cal Crockett love the 50/50 blend for it's fodder, out of my Lee .311 mold it drops .312. I use a .012 thick ticking for a patch and consistently cut bullet holes at 25 yards with it. I found nothing wrong with WW RBs but liked the bit softer 50/50 it wouldn't splatter on a squirrels head like a pure lead one would, and wouldn't just punch a hole through the ribs. It will actually expand to about a 35 cal.

Best wishes,

Joe

Blammer
10-04-2012, 02:45 PM
I use straight WW's for my 50 cal's, they are lighter and fly faster , as a result they shoot a bit flatter. :) They are the same dia as my pure lead RB's.

waksupi
10-04-2012, 03:20 PM
I've been shooting WW's for about 40 years. I've managed to win a couple world championships and a few other little shoots with them. I think they may work okay.

Maven
10-04-2012, 03:25 PM
On Waksupi's recommendation, I too tried them and found they were as accurate as the pure Pb ones I used. To be sure, they were a trifle lighter (3 - 4grs. in a .490" RB) and a tiny bit larger (maybe .001") than their lead brethren, but accuracy was unaffected, at least between 25- and 50 yds. With a smaller ball, the weight loss and size increase should be even smaller.

oldracer
10-04-2012, 03:39 PM
I cast several hundred this past week as I finally ran out of my store bought ones. The commercial ones were 0.490 and mine turned out at 0.495 even though the mold said 0.490. So I tried them last weekend in preps for a match this coming Sunday the while a tad harder to start, the accuracy was a bit better. The commercial ones are supposed to be pure lead and mine are 20-1, the same as my 500gr 45-70 bullets so it seems that will be okay. I also had some with little wrinkles and such and found they shot just as good at 50 yds (our match distance) as perfect ones? If I was going out to longer ranges that would probably not be the case?

gunseller
10-05-2012, 06:03 PM
As stated they cast larger in dia. than pure lead. They load harder in my ML and shoot higher. Think this is beacuse they are tighter in the bore and a little lighter. For me they shoot just as tight of groups as pure lead. Out of my 58 they are about 1 foot flatter shooting at 200 yards. Spind a deer not hit it in the sholder.
Steve

gon2shoot
10-05-2012, 07:49 PM
I've used a lot of 50/50 WW/pure with good results. Helps to streach out my stash of pure.

bob208
10-06-2012, 09:05 AM
if you are going to shoot them in a rifle and like pounding them down the barrel you will do fine. but if you are going to be loading them in a cap and ball pistol. expect the loading leaver to break in a short time. and if it is a brass frame colt type you will also pull the arbor out of the frame.

gnoahhh
10-06-2012, 11:04 AM
After over 40 years of messing with lead CF projectiles, and shooting ML's too, I realized that not once did I ever try casting RB's out of anything but pure lead. I guess that's something I need to add to the 'bucket list'!

(My late father was a tool and die grinder at a major automotive factory, and brought home all the old soft lead centers from broken/worn out grinding wheels in his department. Every day for 30 years, a pocketful of the things made it home into the 'lead tub'. Add to that a sister who is a radiologist who scavenged all the soft isotope lead she could manage means that I have never had to buy soft lead, and don't expect to for the rest of my life. I often wished those two had worked in a tire shop instead, for the daily ration of wheel weights!)

Hanshi
10-06-2012, 03:03 PM
I prefer pure WW, or even WW hardened up just a tad, to pure lead in my smoothbore. The slight increase in dia and the slight decrease in weight are so negligible as to be totally irrelevant for loading and shooting. I have yet to try WW in my rifle but do think it would be a fine performer in my .36 and .40. This would be for small game as I want expansion from the .40 if I use it on deer.

5shotbfr
10-06-2012, 03:10 PM
bob 208
i am not a expert on muzzleloaders by any means .. but why in the heck would a properly fitting ball and patch need pounded down the barrel .
i admit i dont shoot my m/l a lot 6-7 times a year is about it . but i have used w w for round ball they go down the tube just the same as pure does .

a couple taps with the palm on the starter and a smooth steady push on the ram rod till seated .. i never noticed any differance in loading .

I'll Make Mine
10-06-2012, 03:32 PM
Worst case, a WW round ball in a muzzle loading rifle might require adjusting the patch thickness to account for a thousandth or two difference in diameter. Loading in a C&B revolver, as noted above, is another story; the combination of harder and larger is a bad one, because both significantly increase the effort required to shave that little ring of lead (or swage down the ball, if your chambers are chamfered). One possible solution for C&B might be to presize the balls to .001 over chamber size; that'll minimize the shaving required, hence the force needed. Whether that's enough to preserve the loading lever and bushing is a question I can't answer...

bob208
10-09-2012, 08:35 AM
you must fully understand how a patch works. the weave of the patch gites into the soft lead. now if you are using a harder ball it takes more effort to get that fit and get it down the barrel. yes i do not beleive in using ww for round ball.

waksupi
10-09-2012, 11:20 AM
The weave of the patch does not need to get into a ball. The ball is surrounded by the patch, and will spin just fine as it goes up the bore. Yes, you do need a tight fit, but this idea just isn't correct. The patch is more of a gas check then anything.

Shyoldman
10-09-2012, 01:59 PM
I have a 32cal Traditions,both F/L and percussion,2- 36 cal T/C seneca's,a 45 cal T/C Hawkin, A 50 cal T/c Hawkin,2 Traditions Hawkins one flint one perc, and have never shot anything but ww lead balls out of any of them, never haveing a problem with any of them since 1970. I have played with patch material to control the tightness.

Shyoldman
10-09-2012, 02:01 PM
Forgot I picked up a 54 cal T/C hawkin last week , it loves the ww balls too. :)

Maven
10-09-2012, 04:06 PM
All, As has been mentioned above, one reason to use WW's is to conserve your Pb supply. Another is to give a slight increase in RB diameter (very slight in fact) when using what turns out to be an undersized mold (more common than the reverse in my experience). You can compensate for a too tight WW ball by using a slightly thinner patch. Two of my RB rifles loved the WWRB's, but my inline and smoothie don't.

bob208
10-10-2012, 03:26 PM
the patch does more then just a gas check. it is more like a jacket. but i will not argue about it it will not change your mind. so do it the way you want.

Boerrancher
10-12-2012, 09:06 AM
The one thing I discovered years ago, is that a patched round ball does not need to be tight to shoot well. In my 32cal I start the patched ball with my thumb, followed by the ramrod. It shoots well enough to take a squirrel's head off every time out to 35 yards. My 50cals if I want to shoot tooth picks into with them I will use a patch and ball tight enough to require a short starter, but if I want a hunting load that will shoot inside of 3 inches at 100 yards it is one that I start with my thumb and leave the short starter at home. If your load is so tight that you can't easily seat it with out beating on the ball it is too tight. If you think you have to have a tight load for accuracy, and have to deform the ball by pounding it in, the deformation to the ball will cause more accuracy problems than a loose patch and ball combo.

Best wishes,

Joe

waksupi
10-12-2012, 11:46 AM
A friend did some experiments with his 20 bore, seeing what he could use for substitutes for projectiles. He worked down to a combination of a .530 round ball, and a piece of blanket for patching. Accuracy was still acceptable. And definitely not a tight load.
As long as I keep winning matches occasionally, and killing meat, I guess I can live with WW balls, and no engraving of the ball.
I would like an explanation how a patch works like a jacket? If you are going to throw something like that out, you better tell people why you think that.

majg1234
10-13-2012, 07:18 AM
There's a guy on another forum shooting brass balls out of a 58 flinter with excellant results.....this was just an expiriment but seemed to show that the hardness and lack of weave imprinting didn't matter.I shoot WW lead in my SB with nary a problem and even have resorted @ times to it in my rifles.It alway shot well infact very litle different than the pure lead.I did change patchthickness just a little though for easy loading

Boerrancher
10-13-2012, 09:23 AM
I would like an explanation how a patch works like a jacket? If you are going to throw something like that out, you better tell people why you think that.

I would as well since in my SB, I oft times load it with an over the powder wad, and then an over the ball wad to hold it against the charge. No patch required and it shoots with acceptable accuracy out to 50 yards. I have been told that some smoothies shoot better with out a patch on the ball.

Best wishes,

Joe

Hanshi
10-13-2012, 03:47 PM
I've gotten consistent groups under 6" at 50 yards with bare ball. I mostly patch, now but could easily get by without them.

Hanshi
10-13-2012, 03:50 PM
Meant to say that in rifles the patch imparts the spin to the ball. That and the lesser job of a gas check is the purpose of the greased patch.

Maven
10-14-2012, 04:16 PM
"A friend did some experiments with his 20 bore, seeing what he could use for substitutes for projectiles. He worked down to a combination of a .530 round ball, and a piece of blanket for patching. Accuracy was still acceptable. And definitely not a tight load." ...Waksupi

I've been reading Osborne Russell's "Journal of a Trapper," which mentions the use of blanket patches in fusils (smootbore trade guns in this instance) by an attacking band of Blackfoot Indians.

Also, I just returned from a trailwalk where a .60cal. smoothrifle shooter did quite well. Apparently he does so regularly. He certainly beat me and I was using a rifle.

waksupi
10-14-2012, 05:55 PM
He must not believe in what he said, as he didn't come back.

Boerrancher
10-15-2012, 08:43 AM
Also, I just returned from a trailwalk where a .60cal. smoothrifle shooter did quite well. Apparently he does so regularly. He certainly beat me and I was using a rifle.

As I stated in an earlier thread, at the last rendezvous and shooting match I was at, I took 4th with my NW Trade gun, out of over a dozen shooters with rifles. My patching is NOT tight. I discovered a while back that the tighter the patch on that smoothie, the larger the group.

Best wishes,

Joe

Maven
10-18-2012, 06:39 PM
Take a look at Hokie Flinter's post and target: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=23742.15