10mm WNGC too hard or too soft

[cadjak]

I managed to limp wrist my 10mm Glock and had a 200gr WNGC nose dive and stick part way, into the chamber. When I pushed the cartridge out with a wooden dowel, this is what it looked like. I have abused a lot of cast lead bullets, but this one seemed to deform more easily than others. I am a true cast lead novice. From looking at the bullet would you say, 1.) "well that sort stuff happens when you do that, nothing strange about it", 2.)"This bullet might be cast too hard and it's brittle", 3.)"this bullet is too soft." ?
Thanks,
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/cadjak/Misc%20Firearms/10mm%20guns%20and%20ammo/photobucket-30932-1349209469438.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/cadjak/Misc%20Firearms/10mm%20guns%20and%20ammo/photobucket-35359-1349209655408.jpg

[KYCaster]

That boolit was cast in a cold mold.

Its appearance has nothing to do with anything that happened to it after it left the mold.

Jerry

[theperfessor]

Yep, cold mold syndrome.

[cadjak]

The bullet was smooth and unmarred before it hit the barrel. It's appearance was changed by the event. Do you mean that being cast in a cold mold contributed to this happening, or did you mean that you believe it looked like this before anything happened. In that case, I would have noticed it's distorted appearance. This was a factory load from Doubletap.

[MusicMan]

Send it back to Doubletap! They cast it in a cold mold.

[theperfessor]

Got any pictures of an unfired round? it's hard to believe that happened during chambering. Not sure what it would take to make that happen. Did you look at this particular round before loading? Maybe it was a badly cast bullet that contributed to the misfeed and not the other way around.

I've seen a lot of distorted metal, but none that looked like that for any cause other than cold laps from casting.

[KYCaster]

I looked at their web site and the description of your bullet says, "will not deform on impact"........!

There ya go, right from the manufacturer.........couldn't have been damaged in the gun!!! [smilie=1:

It was like that before you put it in the magazine. E-mail the pic to Doubletap and ask them to explain it.

Jerry

[williamwaco]

1+ on cold mold.

[Lloyd Smale]

He said it looked fine before it slamed into the lip of the forcing cone so cold mold isnt it. He didnt say what alloy so its tought to call if it was to soft but in my experinece glocks need hard bullets to do well. they have shallow odd rifling that doesnt do well with soft bullets. If the bhn wasnt at least 15 your not going to get top accuracy. Did it cause the problem? i doubt it. Slam a bullet sideways into a forcing cone and its going to deform.

[cadjak]

I sent the pictures to Doubletap.

I have a hard time believing that I missed seeing a bullet as buggered as this, before loading into the magazine. But,, I guess anything is possible.

I have a habit of checking for uniform length of a factory rounds, as well as checking to see if the bullets are seated correctly, by pressing down on the bullet. Many years back I had some bad ammo from PMC. .44 mag that had cases that split while they were still in the box. (Lousy annealing) and some .45acp that I could push the bullet down into the case with almost no finger pressure.

[cadjak]

I sent the pictures to Doubletap.

I have a hard time believing that I missed seeing a bullet as buggered as this, before loading into the magazine. But,, I guess anything is possible.

I have a habit of checking for uniform length of a factory rounds, as well as checking to see if the bullets are seated correctly, by pressing down on the bullet. Many years back I had some bad ammo from PMC. .44 mag that had cases that split while they were still in the box. (Lousy annealing) and some .45acp that I could push the bullet down into the case with almost no finger pressure.

I have spent the past hour looking for ketchup or hot sauce to make my words taste better as I eat them. You guys are 110% correct. I found several rounds in the box that looked similar.:cast_boolits: Apologies for not checking others in the same box before posting. I guess I'm not as careful as I thought. (Put embarrassed smilie here.)

Thanks to KYCaster, theperfessor, williamwaco, MusicMan, Lloyd Smale for the help.

[theperfessor]

Well, we all try to be helpful. I've run into bad ammo from virtually every manufacturer over the years. Just points out to me again that reloading and shooting is fun but requires care. Look, then look again. We all overlook something from time to time.

A real man knows when to say they were wrong, you've got a lot of character to share it with us.

At least now when you start casting you'll know what your bullet SHOULDN'T look like!

[KYCaster]

...I guess I'm not as careful as I thought....



Looks like Doubletap isn't very careful either! ;-)

When they miss something as obvious as this it makes me wonder what they miss that isn't so obvious.

An excellent argument for loading your own. :castmine:

I hope they make it right for you. Please keep us posted.

Jerry

[cadjak]

Looks like Doubletap isn't very careful either! ;-)

When they miss something as obvious as this it makes me wonder what they miss that isn't so obvious.

An excellent argument for loading your own. :castmine:

I hope they make it right for you. Please keep us posted.

Jerry
I don't load my own because I live in a fairly tiny cabin and I can barely find room for a spare pair of socks. The other reason is that I am compulsive and perfectionistic. (being lazy gets into the mix too.;-)

I have just finished going through all 3 boxes of my 10mm Doubletap. each box had a few of these kinds of bullet problems in it. I'm done with Doubletap. They may want to replace the ammo, but I'm not sure I'd trust their Quality control, or lack of it. I will keep you updated on their response.

[mpmarty]

Good to know, thank you. I was thinking about trying some double tap ammo and this saved me. Thank you.

[cadjak]

I heard back from Doubletap. I asked if they wanted the production numbers for the three boxes that contained the defective rounds. The response was a simple, thanks for calling this to our attention. Sorry for the inconvenience and an offer to send one complimentary box of ammo as token of appreciation for my business. They said the problem has "been taken care of".

Okay, here is my question, can I assume that the bullets that don't look deformed, are going to be up to spec? 10mm hardcast is a "go to" back up woods protection load. I can't pull every bullet and do a hardness test, or weigh and section each bullet to see how uniform they are in weight and density, and then reassemble the ammo.

I want to know that if I stuff one of these up the nose of a black bear, the bear won't just politely ask me for a Kleenex. Last night I was in a busy campground in the Sierras, on my way back from Utah. I had a small mama black bear and cub just walk up to the table I was sitting at. and be curious about what my cell phone was about. Camp bears in California can hardly be called bears any more. Shouting and clapping usually does the trick, at least it has until now. But, I'd feel pretty dumb if my ammo was not up to the task, if it were needed.

I'm not sure what I wanted from Doubletap. Maybe something like, "this should never have happened.", followed by an explanation of how it DID happen, and what they have done to keep it from happening again.

[Three44s]

There is a world of difference between a cold rolled cast bullet such as some of yours and the alloy being out of spec.

My guess is that whatever hardness Double Tap says was there, if it was so .......... is still contained in those wrinkly slugs. A cold mold is just that ......... they are ugly, they still go bang and accuracy issues aside, they will still get a response out of a bear.

I'd take them up on their offer for a box of shells ....... it will more than replace their duds and move on.

As for Double Tap for a bear carry ........... that was where you made your mistake ........ they are more for stopping charges from target frames.

My carry bear loads come from large bore revolvers that are fed from my ammo cupboards.

Best of luck

Three 44s

[2wheelDuke]

I'm surprised to see that. I have a work/hunting buddy that exclusively uses DoubleTap in his handguns when he's in the woods. He and his brother have had nothing but good things to say about them.

I have a Mihec group buy mold on order, I can't wait until I'm pouring my own wfn boolits for the 10mm.

[jmort]

Why spend $$$ with Double Tap when you have Buffalo Bore. Double Tap has been accused over and over of exaggerating their performance data and Buffalo Bore performance data is right on the money, take it to the bank. Underwood looks good, and most of their data seems accurate.

[Sven]

I have spent the past hour looking for ketchup or hot sauce to make my words taste better as I eat them.


BTW, we have a local product called Steve's Pepper Sauce that goes great on words! :-D

[MT Chambers]

Yup, you'd have to play around for a long time to get a pistol to do that to a bullet. You see this with machine cast bullets that aren't inspected as much as when you hand cast them.

[cadjak]

I have been buying from Double Tap for years. Mike McNett seemed to be a good guy trying to turn out a good product, at a fair price, in a very competitive market. Now, I don't know what to think. There have been a lot of comments from folks over the past few months about problems with Double Tap products. He better get it together or he may have to call the company, Tapped Out.
EDIT: Someone who saw the photos of these cartridges, said that it appeared to him that they had been put through a resizing die AFTER being loaded. Does the appearance of the case in my photo suggest that? If so, what would that do to the base of the bullet?

I'm waiting for my replacement box from DT. I asked for a jacketed load, this time. 200gr Nosler jhp. I will go over those VERY carefully.

[cadjak]

I'm waiting for my replacement box from DT. I asked for a jacketed load, this time. 200gr Nosler jhp. I will go over those VERY carefully.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/cadjak/10MM200grNosler.jpg
Double Tap must really like me. The replacement box of 200gr Nosler jhp arrived and the hollow point is full of, what looks like, expensive Russian caviar. The lead doesn't look too hot, but with what I make selling the caviar, I should come out ahead.

Okay, bad jokes aside, this is plain weird! The crud inside the hollow point may be, what a more knowledgeable friend says is,;
I] "wet tumbling media". After the slugs are produced they are tumbled and very often they add a liquid cleaning agent to the media. Usually there should be a mixing time allowed so the media does not stay gooey then the bullets are added. If the media is not semi-dry this is what you get and the hollow point is the collection area. [/I] He added that this was just his best guess at what it might be.
As I said, to my novice eye, the lead doesn't look like right either. Any opinions from you guys?

[Lloyd Smale]

what is it. It doesnt look like any bullet ive ever seen!! whats all the insulation around it?

[40Super]

Where did you find that big worm? It looks crazzzzzyzyyyyyy!!!!!:holysheep

[cadjak]

what is it. It doesnt look like any bullet ive ever seen!! whats all the insulation around it?

The "insulation" is microfiber cloth I had it wrapped in,, to protect the case from the metal clips I used to hold the cartridge while I took the photo.