Size(r) does matter

[tnv]

One trusts I'm not asking a question that many others have asked, but I can't find the question listed. If I'm sizing and lubing in two separate operations, is the Lee "pass thru" resizer a viable option? It seems to be simple and economical, and you can't drop the bullets. The only problem I see is that you need a separate unit for each caliber...but at less then $13.00 dollar each...that doesn't seem to be much of a problem. I have several single stage presses that I'm not using, so that's not a problem either. I'm going to try they're liquid lube anyways, and you get a "free" bottle when you order the sizer. That means the sizer cost about $9.50... rather cheap if the sizer works as claimed. thanks...tnv

[Ben]

I'm a big fan of the Lee " Push Thru " sizers.

No chance for a bullet to be sized more on one side than the other. The bullet will always center itself in the die. An extremely important point when it comes to accurate bullets. In conventional Lube / Sizers there is always the change that the top punch isn't perfectly centered with the sizing die. When that happens you won't be getting bullets that are sized concentrically.

Lee Liquid Alox will work just fine.

Ben

[Bass Ackward]

I size everything through push through sizers. It's slow, it's two extra steps, but then I'm slow.

If you are shooting at the top end for pressure for the hardness of your bullet and your accuracy depends on the hydraulic action to maintain bullet shape in the base area, then a full lube groove is stronger than one with trapped air in it. So fliers are less especially at higher velocities.

I used to lube after sizing with a larger die. And you still have to do this if you are using HT bullets. I seldom do, so I lube before and then nose through size. I get bullets that are more consistent in weight and the velocity potential is higher than bullets sized the other way.

[jonk]

I actually prefer Lee sizers to those I use in my Lubrisizer. Much more consistent I find; no chance of running the bullet in slightly off center and ruining concentricity. I often actually seat the gas check and size in the Lee die, then lube in the lubrisizer. Though Lee's liquid alox works as well as anything else, and better than many- and I use it *almost* exclusively on pistol bullets.

[44man]

With the boolits, calibers and loads I shoot, LLA just doesn't work. I don't like most any lube with Alox but Lar 45 makes good stuff for my lighter, plinking loads.
For my hunting loads, I just rub the lube in the grooves by hand and push them through the Lee sizers, normally a little larger then my boolits so I don't size them. The Lee dies work great to remove excess lube. If a boolit NEEDS sized, the Lee is still the best and keeps boolits evenly sized.
I still think Alox burns in the bore because of the smoke and stink. Not my idea of a bore lube. It leaves residue and a dry bore that picks up lead. Every slow powder load I use leads the bore and loses accuracy with Alox. Fast powders do not seem as bad. If powder is burning the length of the barrel and there is alox lube left in the bore, it burns with the powder. My opinion anyway.
Felix lube, LBT lubes and Lar's carnauba red does not do that and if I find a few flakes of lead, it never builds up. A few flakes for 5 shots or 200 shots never changes.
I don't think LLA is any better then spraying boolits with graphite or moly. Bare boolits might do as good. Plain old wax works better. Case sizing lube on the boolit before sizing might even work better then Alox. Try Hornady Unique, Imperial, paste wax or Young Country case sizing lube. Bet they work better!
OK, feel free to hammer me, I am used to it. Just never expect me to say Alox is good!

[Freightman]

Do what works! if I hammered everyone who didn't agree with me my hammer would be wore out.
I use LLA and do not have any leading, but then I forgot to lube on bunch of 308 boolits and had no leading. Go figure. I also use other lubes, I just like to play.
consider yourself hammered, see that didn't hurt much did it.

[Old Ironsights]

I use my Lee "cheapo"/Anniversary press for push-through GC/Sizing .358s and doing .223 Factory Crimp - and that's about it. Stays busy enough on those two as it is.

So far I've only used LLA, but I'm open to options - though pan lubing doesn't sound particularly fun...

[44man]

Thanks for the hammer!
Anyway, I have never really figured out what lube does---actually---. I know a lube change can make groups twice as large or twice as small. Some leave leading in the bore and some don't.
I know in the BPCR, the fouling has to be kept soft so the next shot will remove it. You don't wan't the boolit running over hard fouling. Does the same thing happen with smokeless? Do some lubes allow a buildup of hard fouling that ruins the next shots? Does hard fouling ruin the bore seal and or, cause leading when a boolit runs over the fouling instead of pushing it out? Will a certain powder allow unlubed boolits because it burns so clean, nothing to speak of is left in the bore?
So many questions, so few real answers, only speculation.
I only know changing lubes can make or break groups and bore conditions real fast. If what you use for the loads you shoot works, don't change anything. But how do you know the gun won't shoot twice as good with another lube unless you try it?
My biggest gripe is when someone swears by one lube only for all of their guns. It's like using Bullseye all the way to a .460 Weatherby for elephant.
A lot of guys love LLA but I can't see why. It has shot the worst groups for me and caused the worst leading. I throw it away or give it away when I get a bottle with a die. I can only blame results on all of the different ways some of you shoot and the loads and distances you shoot. It boils down to what each one expects from the gun. Maybe a 9mm or .38 will love LLA but I don't and will never own one. I am a nut and shoot to 500 meters with revolvers. Then I am a hunter and the same long range loads are used for that purpose. I love BIG revolvers and don't even have an ACP. Don't get me wrong, all guns are fun to shoot, but I won't buy a gun just to make noise. They must have a purpose that I need them for.
Same-o, same-o, same-o! Work lube like you do loads. Never get stuck on one because it does just fine in that .38 special.

[leftiye]

44 Man, This is why I read this forum, and what I love to read! Most of my questions are calculated to get someone to put forth their knowledge, or their theory, or best guess on some facet of cast boolit making/shooting. Often I must goof because I get told that it doesn't matter, or someone just finds fault with me. Nevertheless I am still making progress. Thanks to you, and all the other guys here who don't mind risking the gauntlet and still provide information, and concepts. I'm really hoping to have others help us all to a more complete understanding of how lubes work too.