Problems with Contender...

[ShooterAZ]

Guys,

I'm struggling with a few issues with my 7x30 Waters barrel and cast boolits. I bought the Lee C285-130-1R mold, and cast up some boolits. My barrel slugs at .284 so I'm sizing to .285 with RCBS Lam2... Here is what is going on:

1) Some of the gas checks are not crimping very firmly onto the shank. I can twist some of them with my fingers. The boolits are cast of 2/6/92, so they are fairly hard, but seem to be sizing and lubing fine. Is there anything I can I do to tighten the crimp up some?

2) My 7x30 barrel must have a really tight neck, because a dummy round will only chamber when crimped. I'm not having to do that with j-bullets. Yes this boolit is .001 larger...but stops a full 1/2" from chambering without the crimp. Is this going to be detrimental? Am I missing something? Any tips/tricks? I have been loading for 30 Cal rifles with no problems...this Tender is giving me fits.[smilie=b:

Thanks...Shooter

[Larry Gibson]

Are you using commercial crimp on GCs?

'Tenders generally have tight chambers and some "crimping" to remove the case mouth bell is needed for chambering.

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

for the gas checks.
you could try annealing them.
or you can look at the gas check shank if it's only some of them you need to determine what is wrong with the some it could be just the boolits bases.

now the stopping a full 1/2" short should tell you the boolit is hitting the rifling.
the crimping is just allowing you something to push against the boolit to push the nose into the rifling.
the crimp would really only affect the last couple of thousandths of the chambering.
look at the engraving on the nose from the rifling.
if your neck is really that tight [you'll have to measure this area] you could turn the necks down for a better case fit.
this isn't a bad thing, but i'd look at the nose of the boolit.
you can manipulate the nose diameter some by adding more soft lead to your alloy.

[Wayne S]

Have you slugged the chamber THROAT, most T/C 7MM chambering go about .2855-.286.
Are you using an "M" die to bell the case mouth ? IF so, try chambering a case w/o a bullet. If the case will not chamber you are over belling the case mouth. Try seating a bullet as usual, then remove the decaping stem and running the case/bullet into the sizing die till the top of the case neck has been sized. Marking with a "Majic marker will show when this happens and when to stop. You are only trying to remove the excess bell.
I suggest checking the NOE catalog for 7 Hunter molds.
Crimping is a bad thing and should only be considered on lever action weapon, and then neck tension should be relied on first.
Just my $0.02

[captaint]

Shooter - Just a couple of ideas... First, clean the daylights out of that chamber/neck area. You probably already did that. Second, you might try to lightly turn the outside of the case necks. Just take off the "thick"side of the neck brass. Most all rifle brass is thicker on one side than the other. That might do it. I'd hate to see you size your boolits smaller to get them to chamber. How about a light crimp ?? Does your boolit have a crimp groove ??
Just some thoughts. These are the things I would do first... enjoy Mike

[ShooterAZ]

Larry,

Yes, I am using Hornady gas checks...

R5R,

I will go through all the boolits and check the bases. Also, I am seating to the crimp groove...the boolit is not hitting the rifling. The cases drop in freely once they are crimped. How does one go about annealing gas checks?

Yup, I realize that crimping may not be the best thing. I may have to invest in a neck turning tool if my crimped boolits don't work out. I will try reducing the belling just a tad also. I belled just enough for the gas check to completely enter the case mouth.

I have some things to work on. Thanks guys.

[Shooter]

Are you using 7-30 brass, or necked down 30-30?

[ShooterAZ]

I am using necked down and fire formed 30-30 brass. I thought this might have been part of the problem so I tried some Federal 7x30 brass I have, with the exact same results.

[Larry Gibson]

I'd drop back to wayne S suggestion and slug or do a cast of the chamber neck and throat and then compare the measurements between them.

With the Hornady CO GCs that do not stay on I would look at opening the shank part of the mould to make the bullet shank cast slightly larger, shouldn't take much opening to do it.

Stopping 1/2" short with uncrimped case mouths still tells me the case mouth, when not crimped, is belled too much for the chamber neck. My 30-30 TC Contender carbine barrel does the very same thing. You can adjust the seat/crimping die to crimp just enough to take the bell off the case mouth. That's what you need to do or get a taper crimp die and use it. I use the Lee FCD to just remove the case mouth bell on my 30-30 cases and they now chamber freely.

Larry Gibson

[ShooterAZ]

Thanks Larry, I will mess with some more tonight after work.

[Rocky Raab]

I suspect it's a belling issue, also. My 7-30 Waters Contender barrel doesn't have that problem, but I rely on chamferring the case mouth rather than belling.

Do NOT run a round with seated bullet into a sizing die EVER. The neck of the sizer is cut a LOT smaller than bullet diameter - that's why you need an expander button. At best, you'll size the bullet down four or five thousandths too small, and at worst you are essentially chambering a loaded round into that die. You can imagine what might happen!

[ShooterAZ]

Do NOT run a round with seated bullet into a sizing die EVER. The neck of the sizer is cut a LOT smaller than bullet diameter - that's why you need an expander button. At best, you'll size the bullet down four or five thousandths too small, and at worst you are essentially chambering a loaded round into that die. You can imagine what might happen!

In my 30+ years of reloading experience, I have never done this. How did you arrive at this misunderstanding?:-P

[runfiverun]

so the mouth of the case is hitting the end of the chamber where the neck starts.
and squishing it down makes it go in.
you definatly need to home in on what's happening there.
i'd say necking down the cases is causing you to have too thick brass right there.
now this isn't a bad thing it actually gives you the opportunity to tailor the brass thickness to your rifle.

if you need to anneal gas checks there is a couple of way's to do it.
threaded metal pipe some end caps and a fire.
your smelting set-up.
an empty lee casting pot.
the important thing is to get them over 700-f.

[ShooterAZ]

Thanks R5R. I'm going to dive into this tonight after work.

[canyon-ghost]

Run five is right, the contender will probably take a good chamfering tool to cut the outside edge off the case. Being tight is good, it means your barrel is fairly new. I had this issue with a Custom Shop barrel. I use an inside/outside chamfer tool on all my new brass to keep it from scraping the sides of the chamber. I'm not going to recommend this but, I have used some wet-or-dry 600 rolled up to gently buff the chamber. Followed that with 0000 steel wool. Mind you, I did it very sparingly just to take out machine marks (maybe half their depth). Only a very light touch of that followed by mineral spirits and patches.

I should hope with the contender you can use a light taper crimp to solve the problem. Some barrels I've had would come closer to fitting spire points. So, fitting a flat point bullet is touchy and time-consuming work.

I fit gas checks by pushing the bullet into the upturned cup. Just pour them out on the table and flip the ones that aren't facing up. Then, I set them in the sizing die to seat with a Lyman 4500. If they are too loose, you might have some rounded bases mixed in.

It's a lot of painstaking work but, a Contender is definitely worth it.

Good Luck,
Ron

[ShooterAZ]

I always chamfer the inside of the case neck, but not the outside. I will try this tonight as well. I will take another look at the gas checks too. Now that you mention it, the ones that were loose appeared rounded at the bottom. Thanks guys.

[stubshaft]

If you necked down 30/30 brass then it might be too long!

[Rocky Raab]

ShooterAZ, reply #4 suggested running loaded rounds into the sizer. I was explaining why we should never do that - in case you were tempted to try it.

[ShooterAZ]

[QUOTE=Rocky Raab;1866257]ShooterAZ, reply #4 suggested running loaded rounds into the sizer. I was explaining why we should never do that - in case you were tempted to try it.[/QUOTE

Roger That Rocky...I would not attempt that....thanks. It appears that I may need to get a neck turning tool for my issues. I still haven't worked this out yet.

[rexherring]

In one of my Contenders, can't remember which one now, I had to trim the cases a little shorter than normal and seat the bullet out a little further and had good results then.

[quilbilly]

I have been sizing for both of my Contender 7mm TCU at 284 and have been getting fine accuracy and the Hornady checks stay on fine with the Lee sizer.

[Junior1942]

I have been sizing for both of my Contender 7mm TCU at 284 and have been getting fine accuracy and the Hornady checks stay on fine with the Lee sizer.Ditto here on both of mine but sizing .285".