Commodities

[Reg]

A quick question for those who might be in the know.
Was put out in our local small town paper this week that the distribution of commodities would come to a halt due to lack of the passing of the farm bill.
Is not also food stamps covered under this same bill???

I know some people who retired with nothing and rely on these commodities as part of their food. No problem as there are a few of us who are looking out for them and never would let them do without.
On the other hand I also know of a few that use food stamps and are just too darned lazy to get out and get work. It is there to be had and they are fully capable. They just do not want to get off their dead butts.

Are food stamps shut off as well???

:-|

[starmac]

Cut off food stamps in an election year, I don't see that happening.

[Love Life]

Are food stamps shut off as well???
:-|

Probably not, but I hope so. Maybe it will cause the lazy do nothings to realize there is no money tree and they should seek gainful employment.

They can do like most responsible adults and adjust their standard/style of living to their income.

[montana_charlie]

Was put out in our local small town paper this week that the distribution of commodities would come to a halt due to lack of the passing of the farm bill.
Is not also food stamps covered under this same bill???

Yes.
80% of the money in the farm bill goes for food stamps.

CM

[camaro1st]

RANT welfare RANT welfare RANT there got that out of the way. i think that if your retired and on ss you should be able to receive food stamps (you have done your part and i think you for your example). if they want to keep the welfare system in tack why not do like we do in other countries air drop some rice. would have to put instructions so they can cook it. I hear they only know how it cook steak and lobster. If your too lazy to work, you will have a good diet plan. By cutting out a lot of the farm bill it will drive food prices up and some farmers will have to shut up shop.

[Reg]

Yes to all the above but ---------
If the commodities have been shut off, what about food stamps ????????????????

[tomme boy]

I take it none of you have ever been disabled or have lost everything you have ever had. I don't think you should be able to raise your children their whole lives on it, but it should be there to help if you truely need it. I can gaurantee you everyone of you have taken handouts. If you file taxes you take a handout. If you are a farmer you take more handouts than than anyone.

[MtGun44]

Sorry to disagree, I have NEVER taken a handout from the government.

I think the best comment was "I think there needs to be a safety net, but when did
it get turned into a hammock?"

For the TRULY limited people, like blind, fine. But if someone didn't get an education or
any job skills, didn't get a good job, or just never saved any money for retirement . . . . . .
why does that bad planning mean I have to take money out of my pocket? Personally, I have
been saving about 25-30% of my earnings for 30+ yrs. I have lived well below my means so that
I will not be on welfare when I want to retire. Social security is a good safety net, but it is under
funded now and over paying, will eventually be a big problem. Beyond that, I am not
in favor of welfare for young people - I know a number of people on gov't "disability" that are
working and have zero apparent actual physical disability.

Life is hard and choices should have consequences. Food stamps is mostly just a way
to buy votes and should be radically cut down, like 95%. I'm sure a lot of folks
on disability are actually unable to work, but I also personally know some that are basically
faking it and stealing the money.

Bill

[montana_charlie]

If you file takes [taxes] you take a handout.
Care to explain that?


In the news: "Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack accused House Republicans of delaying the vote on the new $500 billion farm bill until after the election in order to add provisions sharply cutting food stamps and other agriculture programs."

I wonder how 'food stamps' ever came to be called 'an agricultural program'.


CM

[tomme boy]

Ever done long form? Taken child credit. Claimed your medical bills. Homestead for your house. Bought a new car or truck that is flex fuel capable. Hand outs, every one of them.

[Love Life]

I file taxes every year as requied. I pay taxes as well. Sure wish I got one of those fancy income tax returns.

Moving on. I have never taken a handout. Any fiat currency I received I earned with my own mind, muscles, and hard work.

I agree with MTGun44. Why should you or myself have to pay because people couldn't save for retirement, go to school, or get a job?

It is BS.

Now if you receive diability due to a work injury or if you receive assistance until you get back on your feet then that is what the program is designed for. If you are a 3rd generation welfare pig then I hope it gets shut off.

[alrighty]

Care to explain that?

CM

Indeed ,because I must be doing something terribly wrong.

[alrighty]

I file taxes every year as requied. I pay taxes as well. Sure wish I got one of those fancy income tax returns.

Moving on. I have never taken a handout. Any fiat currency I received I earned with my own mind, muscles, and hard work.

I agree with MTGun44. Why should you or myself have to pay because people couldn't save for retirement, go to school, or get a job?

It is BS.

Now if you receive diability due to a work injury or if you receive assistance until you get back on your feet then that is what the program is designed for. If you are a 3rd generation welfare pig then I hope it gets shut off.

That covers my feelings as well.We are a caring nation , In the past I would even say a caring Christian nation.Not so sure about that anymore.However the majority do care and do not have any problem with taxes being used to help people get back on their feet.The problem is the 2nd and 3rd generation of the happily unemployed this welfare system has created.I also agree that it is nothing more than legal vote buying.
Here is another perfect example of what we have created.In my home town , a small community of about 6,000.The largest employer closed down , the displaced workers could draw unemployment for over a year.If you decided to go back and get a job skills training you could draw even longer.I know of ten people personally that went to a barber training course.The only reason they choose the barber school was that it required the least amount of hours.The training was all paid for as well as extending your unemployment benefits.How many barbers does a community of 6,000 need?How many do you think actually opened up a barber shop or even went to work at one of my towns four barber shops? None
There is nothing wrong with a helping hand but hand outs are destroying our nation.
Welfare and unemployment are very good programs when they are not abused.

[PS Paul]

Exactly the plan the progressive socialists have put in place. More dependency, more libtard voters. More people on mass transit: fewer people who are in rural areas who own guns and are self-reliant. More welfare: more welfare children and those children rewarded with spittin' out more welfare kids.... Sigh. wish I could afford to have another kid. My son wants a little brother and we cannot afford it, but each person "in the family welfare business" (NOT those who need it temporarily) get additional "reward" for more little welfare recipients. So good programs when not abused? Perhaps, but we now have a nation of abusers. I have NEVER taken a red cent from state or local government and have truly done without many of life's luxuries so I can be in that position- and say so. But I have turned down offers of help from VERY wealthy relatives as well, like when two of them offered me a down payment on our house I did it myself. I cannot feel beholden to anyone but my wife and my God and I do believe most of us on this forum, unless some need from debilitating illness or ailment- which you've paid into to support that insurance your whole life- are a lot like me and simply are too self-reliant and proud and stubborn? LOL!

[perotter]

Ever done long form? Taken child credit. Claimed your medical bills. Homestead for your house. Bought a new car or truck that is flex fuel capable. Hand outs, every one of them.

That would be true only if everything belonged to the gov & they let us keep/have some of it. The truth is 100% of our income belongs to the person who earned it, the gov just takes some of it.

[perotter]

This article says the food stamps will continue.

http://news.firedoglake.com/2012/09/28/what-does-it-mean-when-the-farm-bill-expires/

[Reg]

Remember the story of describing a mouse by telling it quietly in someone's ear then they in turn passed it on to someone else and after it had been whispered in the ear of about ten people the mouse had grown into an elephant !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My only question was food stamps going to be affected the same way as commodities ???


:bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

[garbear]

Here something you may not know about food stamps. You can buy seeds for a garden with them. How do I know. Food stamps is through the department of agriculture. You can buy seeds at most grocery stores. We were with out steady employment for 3 yrs. Some of the scariest times in our marriage.

We have and live off our garden. We can everything. Thanks to my Garden we have not bought much produce. Thanks to great neighbors we picked extra fruit from their trees while my trees slowly grow. I have steady employment now and money is still tight but we will never go hungry thanks ro the lessons we both learned from our grandparents.

Self reliance is good but the program does fill a need. There are those that need it.
Garbear

[shooter93]

Any deduction on taxes is asking someone else to pay for your choices. Having children is a choice. Once you are allowed to deduct them someone else will make up that money. Do they spend to much?....oh yes but not real likely to change for awhile. Everyone can justify their deductions, just put it on a sales tax and forget income taxes and deductions completely.

[PS Paul]

Easier to pay those taxes when you don't think of it as "your money".

[Olevern]

Ever done long form? Taken child credit. Claimed your medical bills. Homestead for your house. Bought a new car or truck that is flex fuel capable. Hand outs, every one of them.

How is the govt. taking less of my money because of a deduction for a small portion of my medical bills called taking a handout?

Oh, I forgot, the trick is to not think of earnings as your money.

[Ickisrulz]

Ever done long form? Taken child credit. Claimed your medical bills. Homestead for your house. Bought a new car or truck that is flex fuel capable. Hand outs, every one of them.

Following the tax laws is not taking a handout. It is legally working within the system to keep as much of your money you can for your family. If a person doesn't take the credits allowed they are either generous, ignorant or foolish.

I'd be happy to pay more in taxes...if the government spent only what they took in and starting paying off the debt. I'd bet a lot of us would. But to ask anyone to pay more so it can be spent foolishly is just beyond ridiculous.

[geargnasher]

Following the tax laws is not taking a handout. It is legally working within the system to keep as much of your money you can for your family. If a person doesn't take the credits allowed they are either generous, ignorant or foolish.

I'd be happy to pay more in taxes...if the government spent only what they took in and starting paying off the debt. I'd bet a lot of us would. But to ask anyone to pay more so it can be spent foolishly is just beyond ridiculous.

+1. I don't even want to understand the mindset that claiming a legit tax break is somehow a "handout". Who EARNED that money in the first place? Paying taxes to support infrastructure and necessary government is part of the social contract we engage in as citizens of the USA, but don't let the SOB's ever forget TO WHOM the money belongs, and who creates wealth from nothing. It dang sure ain't the ones being paid by tax dollars.

Rant off. I'm sorry, I don't know whether the food stamp program will be affected gy the delay here. Might end up being some fat bums rioting soon, though. Ever notice how America has the most obsese poverty-level population in the entire world?

Gear

[montana_charlie]

Ever done long form? Taken child credit. Claimed your medical bills. Homestead for your house. Bought a new car or truck that is flex fuel capable. Hand outs, every one of them.
Yep, long form is an every year thing.

The government tells us we must pay an income tax.
The government talls us what percent of our income we must surrender.
The government tells us what things we don't need to pay tax on.

We take the form, follow the government rules, and send in what we owe.

There is no handout involved until government takes our tax money and gives a handout to somebody who can't earn enough to live on ... much less pay an income tax.

Any deduction on taxes is asking someone else to pay for your choices.
You are wrong.
A tax deduction is an amount not paid to the government, and which reduces the amount that government has to spend.
If you have so many deductions while earning an average income that you pay no income tax at all, then you are not contributing a share of the cost of government.

That, in itself, is not cause for embarassment unless you are unwilling to pay a share ... and will only vote for candidates who will allow you to continue to avoid your share.

CM

[tomme boy]

So taking the earned income credit and the flex fuel credit is NOT a hand out? I know a few woman that have 4-5 kids an they get their childcare paid for while they work for about 3 months out of the year. Min. wage and they get 8-9K$ back every year. How is that not a hand out? They did not even make that amount for the little they worked. But they have to work jst a little bit to keep getting the extra hand outs.

[Ickisrulz]

So taking the earned income credit and the flex fuel credit is NOT a hand out? I know a few woman that have 4-5 kids an they get their childcare paid for while they work for about 3 months out of the year. Min. wage and they get 8-9K$ back every year. How is that not a hand out? They did not even make that amount for the little they worked. But they have to work jst a little bit to keep getting the extra hand outs.

Specifically making choices to game the system is a whole other thing. How can you compare sometime taking a credit for medical expenses or raising a typical family to someone spitting out kids so they don't have to work? The comparison is a bit insulting. Don't you think?

BTW, you can go here to find out how you can donate more of your money to the federal government:

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resources/faq/faq_publicdebt.htm#DebtFinance

[tomme boy]

It is still taking a handout. It just depends how you look at it. The people that get it don't ever think it is a handout. Thats why every one here denies taking one.

[Ickisrulz]

It is still taking a handout. It just depends how you look at it. The people that get it don't ever think it is a handout. Thats why every one here denies taking one.

Do you pay the same tax rate as someone making significantly more than you? Since you pay less taxes...(it stands to reason) you are taking a handout.

Maybe the government should just hand everyone a bill for living in the United States each year. The same amount for each person regardless of income or size of family. Would that even everything out for you and get rid of us deadbeats?

[montana_charlie]

Min. wage and they get 8-9K$ back every year. How is that not a hand out? They did not even make that amount for the little they worked.
When you get back all that you paid in, you might call that 'a free ride'.
But, when you get back more than you paid in, or more than you even earned, THAT is a 'handout'.

A large portion of 'the 47%' are getting those 'handouts' while the rest enjoy 'the free ride'.
Those members of 'the 47%' who will vote for the conservative are willing to risk a change in their status in a move to better the nation.
They are to be commended and admired.

The others are the 'losers' who will always vote for the 'Obamas' of this world.

CM

[camaro1st]

Originally Posted by tomme boy View Post
Ever done long form? Taken child credit. Claimed your medical bills. Homestead for your house. Bought a new car or truck that is flex fuel capable. Hand outs, every one of them.


taking handouts? i own a few cattle and work 50+ hrs as a bridge foreman. i am a single white male with no children (try enjoying that percentage). HANDOUTS? since i moved to the country and started busting my backside to keep and build up what i have. every year for the last 5 i've had to pay in on taxes, the six yrs before that i got back enough to pay property taxes and that is long form filing. I get no government help on the farm and we all know how they like another mans paycheck. So please tell or show me where MY HANDOUT is!!! oh and i drive a 96 dodge truck and a 01 pt cruiser. At the low income housing in town (10 apartments) two of them have older vehicles than mine in front of them, to be fair there is a few that has a job that lives there. most have cable this i only hear from the man that takes care of the place, me i have a antenna and get 3 stations on a good day cause the satellite bill would destroy my budget. HANDOUT where?

[oneokie]

80% of the money in the farm bill goes for food stamps.CM


RANT welfare RANT welfare RANT there got that out of the way. By cutting out a lot of the farm bill it will drive food prices up and some farmers will have to shut up shop.

Care to elaborate more on how you think cutting the Farm bill will drive up food prices and put some farmers out of business?

[mold maker]

I missed less than 3 days work a year for over 42 years. I paid my share of taxes, as required every year.
Is the SS that I get now a handout? Is the Medicare I use when needed a handout?
At 70, I defy anyone to compare me to those that make a habit, of eating stake and drinking beer, doping, and having babies at my expense.

[blackthorn]

Interesting thread. I do not have a dog in this fight, but i am interested in how the US system works. For instance; how is your unemployment insurence funded? In Canada workers pay a deduction from their pay cheque and that is supposed to "insure" them from some of the negative effects from loss of work. In its original form so many weeks of employment at so many dollars in premiums entitled you to so many weeks of unemployment benifits. In its original form THAT WAS NOT A HANDOUT, it was collecting on an insurance policy! In the 1980's we had a recession and things got tough. About that time the government decided to reduce the time a person was able to collect unemployment benifits, while at the same time the government instituted changes to the legislation allowing them to take premiums paid-in by workers to ensure they had a saftey net and give that money to employers as a (so called) incentive to "create" jobs. THAT WAS A HANDOUT! Now as I said I do not pretend to understand the US system but what I saw the Obama bunch do was give MASSIVE handouts to huge corporations putting the US in the hole by Trillions of dollars. Anyway, the point of this post was to differentiate between a "handout" and an "insurence" policy. I think there is a big black line between helping those who cannot help themselves and those who will not help themselves! (Your country or mine).

[camaro1st]

Care to elaborate more on how you think cutting the Farm bill will drive up food prices and put some farmers out of business?

http://www.ers.usda.gov/farm-bill-resources.aspx

here you find some reading to support my thoughts that when you cut the money that help farmers they have to make it up else where so up goes the prices or they shut the doors.

Not all the money goes to the welfare and commodities program.

where i am at we have had almost two years of drought and the farmers that grow mostly grain depend on the insurance that helps cover the cost of not having a good crop. that insurance is also funded in part by the farm bill.
there is the Nutrition part of it that sees that the kids in school as well as on wic/snap programs (that food comes from farmers) get feed. not to mention some of the little programs that's in it like making sure your food is safe. If the farmers have to cover all the costs for all the checks that is required they will shut off the tractor.
I am not saying it couldnt use a over haul but coming from a rural community i understand some of what it impacts.

[camaro1st]

black thorn our unemployment is paid in by employers/employees guys like mold maker (above post) looses all that he has paid in. So the government uses it else where from what i understand.

mold maker if i had any say guys and women that has worked their whole life and on ss should be entitled to eating steak and drinking beer, doping, and having babies at my expense. Well maybe not having babies but practicing would be ok :kidding:

[montana_charlie]

when you cut the money that help farmers they have to make it up else where so up goes the prices or they shut the doors.
The only 'farmers' I know of who raise their prices are 'farmers' who sell to other 'farmers'.

A farmer who raises grain sells his crop to companies that are in the business of buying grain. They tell the farmer what they will pay for it, and the farmer takes it ... or eats his grain.

Same with ranchers. The buyers who supply the feedlots offer a price per hundred pounds. And, when the price of feed is high, the money offered to ranchers is low.
The rancher CAN say 'no', but he will need to have some other plan in mind for that year. He can't just tell the buyer 'those calves are priced at such and such', and expect to sell his crop.

But, there's the 'farmer' who sells alfalfa to other 'farmers'.
He WILL increase his price per bale ... or price per ton ... to equal as much as he can possibly get from other 'farmers' who find themselves short of feed.
He asks for top dollar, and when the value of the feed is high, the guy who buys it for his livestock will be selling low.
But, he'll pay the high price and sell at a loss ... because he's at the bottom of the 'hill' and accustomed to being krapped on.

Maybe next year will work out better ...

CM

[camaro1st]

Old school supply and demand applys here. when the companies are loosing money from the Commodities being cut out and the farmers/ranchers are getting less money from the bill being cut out. They will quit farming/ranching . No farmer/rancher what does that do to the price of food?

charlie perhaps i didn't word that quite right but what i was getting at was in the long run the food prices will go up. (as i was asked in earlier post)

[MT Gianni]

Lets try a little harder to keep this thread from being moved to the political section.

[shooter93]

As I said MC....everyone can justify their deductions. You are not and unless things change drastically and never will be limiting the amount they can spend. They always spend and take what they need from someone. A child deduction is a subsidy. We are never getting out this mess by spending cuts only, get used to that idea, revenues will go up somewhere along the line. They will never drop deductions, to even try will bring cries of FOUL!! nor lower the effective tax rates it will be shifted somewhere. A sales tax and no income tax seems a better system to me but again unless the bulk of them get tossed out and we start over I don't see that happening for decades.

[ktw]

I wonder how 'food stamps' ever came to be called 'an agricultural program'.

Because it is administered by Department of Agriculture. You could look at it as an effort by the Department of Ag to extend departmental political support beyond just the rural, agricultural areas of the country and into the more urban areas.

Defense contractors do the same thing, distributing the manufacturing associated with big defense contracts across as many states as possible, getting more federal legislators on their side during defense budget reviews and making those projects harder to kill.

-ktw

[markshere2]

Ever done long form? Supporting Taken child credit. Claimed your medical bills. Homestead for your house. Bought a new car or truck that is flex fuel capable. Hand outs, every one of them.

Oh, so it is the government's money that I work my butt off to earn?

And some how if I follow the law to minimize my tax burden I am taking a handout!?!

No,you are wrong.

.Gov is taking MY money at threat of jail if I Do not pay.

No handout,just me trying to minimize the rape.