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hithard
09-27-2012, 11:17 AM
I've always let my boolits sit for a few weeks before sizing and shooting. Unfortunetly I'm in a position where I have to cast and test load in the same day. I know that my boolits wont be as hard now as they will in several weeks, but is there something I'm missing here in doing this.

Thanks for your input.

R.M.
09-27-2012, 11:20 AM
I do it all the time, right or wrong.

runfiverun
09-27-2012, 12:42 PM
water quenched will make them act like air cooled two weeks later.
they will however be about twice as hard two weeks later.
i'd re set my schedule and skip a range date as if you work the load to the soft today's boolits things could change down the road.
just take a day or two and make a large batch of boolits and meter those out over a few range visits.
you'll have a larger sample of more consistent boolits to work with.

popper
09-27-2012, 01:06 PM
So what do you gain by testing a load with unseasoned CBs? Or for that matter, even loading them? You have a crystal ball? Now to just load and shoot a good load, sure, just don't expect good test results.

hithard
09-27-2012, 02:46 PM
Mold showed up early and leaving on Saturday for hunt. Gonna try and make it happen.

runfiverun
09-27-2012, 04:47 PM
water drop then.

fcvan
09-27-2012, 06:11 PM
It would seem the important question would be the hardness of the alloy that you are using. really soft stuff isn't going to harden much with age. If shooting a harder alloy it would seem water quenching would be the way to go when you need the boolits to harden up like they were aged. Most of my shooting of late has been with softer stuff, generally range scrap. They have been working great with my non magnum loads, and magnum loads with plain based gas checks.

25 years ago, I would cast 200 boolits, 100 from two different molds, and then refill the pot. While the pot heated up I would lube and seat 100 boolits and go back to casting. Again, this was range scrap, pretty soft stuff, and loaded in .38 and .45 ACP. Once I had all of my .38s loaded I would start loading .45s. By the time I was done loading what I was casting I would stockpile whatever boolits I was casting. I still lube right before seating boolits for the most part and those boolits don't seem to age harden much. The only time I would lube a bunch for bulk storage was when using hard lube so the lube doesn't get all over the boolits. Frank

RobS
09-27-2012, 09:03 PM
You can also speed age them and I've done this in a oven on many occasions. Air Cooled WW alloy or similar with antimony and traces of arsenic can be aged quickly if done this way. I've tested the BHN on alloys to confirm.

A few hours after cast place the air cooled boolits in an oven at 190 to 200 degrees for an hour (make sure it's really 200 degrees or slightly less by using a good thermometer) and leave them in the oven at the end of the hour and to cool back down to room temp.

8 or 9 hours after the first oven exposure turn the oven back on and go another round. When they cool the second time in the oven they will be at or nearly as hard as they would be if they were aged for a few weeks.

I've also done this with water quenched bullets as well to speed the aging process up.

felix
09-27-2012, 09:24 PM
Yes, that is an ideal approach when in a hurry. No need to do two re-heating segments because one twice as long will do the same as two equal ones. Yes, 200 degrees should be max because of unknown elements in our junk lead. If we are sure of what the alloy is, we can prolly go to 300 degrees max and set the time for 1.5 hours, instead of 2.0 hours in the oven for 200 degrees. If the boolits end up too soft, instead of harder, then the temperature was exceeded for the alloy. Drop the temp in 50 degree increments. Waksupi's post #14 should be respected for repeatability. ... felix

40Super
09-27-2012, 09:28 PM
I have noticed with a few guns that after getting a new mold and being excited to try it I'd cast up a bunch and the next day lube and then load, I would'nt get cosistant groups or some leading ect.. I'd run out of time to do much more that week and a week or two later, I would shoot some more of them and things would be turning out much better.
Right now I am casting a couple hundred each week of my bullseye comp bullets(200gr swc) for this falls/winter league. Till I get 2000 or so stocked up, I have to let them sit and age to "perfection"

RobS
09-27-2012, 10:13 PM
Yes, that is an ideal approach when in a hurry. No need to do two re-heating segments because one twice as long will do the same as two equal ones. Yes, 200 degrees should be max because of unknown elements in our junk lead. If we are sure of what the alloy is effective we can prolly go to 300 degrees max and set the time for 1.5 hours, instead of 2.0 hours in the oven for 200 degrees. ... felix

I guess I never tried it for twice as long in a single session. The first time I did this I placed the boolits in the oven for an hour shut it down and shortly after they were cool enough I tested the BHN and went to bed. The next morning I tested the BHN again and then put them back in for an hour. Testing after the second time in the oven the BHN increased of course.

Curiosity……………………. now I'll have to try the next time for one exposure at 2 hours and see what's up.

hithard
09-27-2012, 11:00 PM
40super,

I'm all over what your saying, and the boolits were too!Not to mention a very small trace of leading. I couldn't get them to hit a paper plate at 50yds, well one out of eight hit. The boolits looked good and the size and lube are the same as my ranch dog mold in 338 200gr. This one is a NOE 225gr. I'm left to believe that after a few weeks of hardening they will shoot much better, they have to right...I know there are alot of variables here but I have to go shoot some goat's, and then I'll push some more of these down the tube. I'll follow up on my results

RobS
09-27-2012, 11:11 PM
40super,

I'm all over what your saying, and the boolits were too!Not to mention a very small trace of leading. I couldn't get them to hit a paper plate at 50yds, well one out of eight hit. The boolits looked good and the size and lube are the same as my ranch dog mold in 338 200gr. This one is a NOE 225gr. I'm left to believe that after a few weeks of hardening they will shoot much better, they have to right...I know there are alot of variables here but I have to go shoot some goat's, and then I'll push some more of these down the tube. I'll follow up on my results

Not necessarily, they may not shoot well even after two weeks of aging if the softer boolits were swagged down when you seated the boolits in the case. Pulling a dummy round and measuring will let you know if the boolits are the intended diameter.

waksupi
09-27-2012, 11:32 PM
I'll give you guys a tip. You need a hardness tester for this.
Cast your boolits.
Shoot some. Check results in accuracy, leading, any problem you may think is related to hardness.
Shoot each progressive day, making the same observations.
Continue the testing until you reach the point where the boolit hardness is doing what you want it to do.
Check the hardness, and you then know what you need for that particular firearm. The boolits are going to continue hardening for around three weeks, so you will have various hardness to try as they age.
If air hardening doesn't do it, then try a quenched batch.
If you find a good hardness with the air cooled, you can experiment with tempering at intervals of around 20 degrees in the oven, to reach a repeatable hardness.

10x
09-28-2012, 10:54 AM
Cast and make up two batchs, one to be shot the same day as cast, one to be shot 3 weeks later. Unless you are pushing max velocities you probably won't notice a difference in P.O.I (point of impact) or group size.

If your velocity is up where a half grain of powder more causes the group size to increase and you get mostly flyers then you might notice a difference. Cast bullets have a speed and pressure limit. That limit is set by bullet hardness. Go past that limit and accuracy falls off.
Under that limit usually accuracy is very consistent. Softer bullets lower that limit.

That being said in over 40 years of shooting cast bullets with gas checks I have never had evidence of leading, other that filling the pits in a couple of sewer pipe bores in 303 rifles.
That has been my experience.

Gibson
09-28-2012, 01:14 PM
I'll give you guys a tip. You need a hardness tester for this.
Cast your boolits.
Shoot some. Check results in accuracy, leading, any problem you may think is related to hardness.
Shoot each progressive day, making the same observations.
Continue the testing until you reach the point where the boolit hardness is doing what you want it to do.
Check the hardness, and you then know what you need for that particular firearm. The boolits are going to continue hardening for around three weeks, so you will have various hardness to try as they age.
If air hardening doesn't do it, then try a quenched batch.
If you find a good hardness with the air cooled, you can experiment with tempering at intervals of around 20 degrees in the oven, to reach a repeatable hardness.

+1

Common sense isn't quite so 'un-common'.

Cogent and coherent.