My last gunshow

[10x]

I have been organizing and running the local gun show to fund raise for the local gun club for the past nine years.
For the first 7 years there was no problem getting volunteers out to move tables and work at the show. I have never taken a nickle out of the cash the show generates and probably spend about $200 every year on expenses I do not claim.
Every one was happy with the show I organized Sunday but of 300 club members only 2 stepped up help move and place tables.
We borrowed tables from 2 community halls and one town recreation board to make 120 tables to move.
On Sunday the show ended at 3:30, Three gun club members and myself were folding table legs and stacking the tables by the door. About 3/4 of the tables were stacked by 5:00 pm I had 80 tables to move back to their owners that evening and at 5:00 pm just when it was time to load them and return them to the community halls I had borrowed them from the club president said " I have to leave and have supper with my wife." His buddy said " I have to go too , I'm driving him". At that point I felt just like the guy who's girlfriend told him "We can always be friends". That left me and my friend Mike to haul the tables. Mike is 51 and recovering from a heart attack and heart surgery from two years ago. I need to have both knees replaced and may need a hip replacement in the next two years. I got home at 9:00 pm Sunday night and I just finished hauling the last of the tables and doing the clean up an at 5:00 pm on Monday - all by my self.
Apparently the club doesn't need the $6000.000 raised by the gun show so there is no point in doing it any more.

To add insult to injury two years ago I set up the application for a $40,000.00 government grant to improve the range and made sure the club got it.
Sometimes it just does not pay to do anything nice for anyone.

[Fishman]

I think you need to tell them how you are feeling and not us. I can sympathize but that is of little practical use.

[Plinkster]

I agree with Fishman, that's a terrible situation you were left in and I would probably feel the same way however, unless you've made clear how much help you really need for the event it's just useless complaining. Now don't get me wrong I'm not try to lay any blame at your feet at all. Our club puts out a number of volunteers needed at an event in the newsletters running up to it. Say we need 40 volunteers for a show, the news letters will ask for 50 or 60 and count down as slots are filled that way when you end up with extra volunteers and tell guys they can go early they usually are happy. Then they are likely to either volunteer again or just stick around and make sure you have extra hands. Might be a good route for your club, any direction you go make sure they know how little help you've received and that its just not possible to put on another one without more help.

[starmac]

Personally I wouldn't talk to anyone, or even tell them I was not going to do it until the last minute. I'm pretty sure I would give the club president about as much respect as he himself showed.

[gandydancer]

I'm with Starmac that's the way to go about it IMO. ( but I have been wrong before)

[10x]

There were signs at the gun range.
There was an email sent to over 200 club members requesting help.
There were a number of club members who promised to help but didn't show.
Club members were aware of the need and the routine to help.

The real kicker was that the Secretary of the club held a shoot at the range on the weekend of the gun show and never even bothered to show up. The date of the show was set in November of last year. And that was when I started advertising and soliciting help.

I am starting to believe our gun club members are simply consumers and do not realize that when they buy a membership they become part of the club. I am also starting to realize that they do not understand the importance of fund raising to keep the cost of membership down and to allow major capital development at the gun range. Replacement value of what we have may well be between $750,000.00 to a million dollars. Membership fees are $75.00 a year with no supervised use and very few days of closure due to rentals.

An example of the attitude is the trap coordinator. He will stuff cardboard boxes from clays into the dumpster - filling it in two to three weeks. We can return the boxes if we carefully flatten them and get a small credit. The company that manufactures the clays and can take the flattened boxes on the backhaul when they deliver clays once or twice a year. Or he could flatten the boxes before tossing them into the dumpster. Or he could take the boxes over to the fire pit (about 60 yards away from the dumpster) and burn them, or he could take them to the cardboard recycle place. In fact he said "some one should be taking these to the recycle bin". My reply was "be my guest" as he continued to toss them into the dumpster. The garbage company charges $160.00 to dump it and there is no other option...

btw: our fire pit is an 8 foot diameter rim from a large rock hauler - it is a thing of beauty...
Ask not what your gun club can do for you but what you can do for your gun club.

[Czech_too]

At the club/range, to which I belong, there are a group of 4 individuals, out of 750 members, who do the bulk of the maintainance. We are there every Friday mowing the range or doing routine maintainance, whatever needs to be done. Occasionally another member will thank or compliment us on the work that we do, but only occasionally. So I have to agree when you say "I am starting to believe our gun club members are simply consumers and do not realize that when they buy a membership they become part of the club."

[Plinkster]

Yeeesh, sorry 10x my answer now changes to +2 on starmac.

[Splatter]

In our little town, we've put on a rodeo since 1919, all run by volunteers.
In the past 3-or-4 years, it's been getting harder and harder to find the people to run it.


We have a volunteer medical first-responder society, because the nearest provincial ambulance station is about 30 minutes away.
When I joined, about 15 years ago, there were 24 members, today there are 7, and we still respond to about 80 calls a year.

The Rescue Unit is also a society of volunteers, and it's down to about 4 members.

In my conversations with other similar orgs around the province, they are also having a tough time keeping their organizations going.
I guess it's not just a local trend, it seems to be affecting much of the western world.

[largom]

Have belonged to several gun clubs in the past. Your experience is the reason that I do not belong to any today.

Larry

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

the Elks Club runs the local Gunshow in my area (not my sportsman club).
they hire the local Boy scouts for setup and cleanup, and tear down.

IF you change your mind about not running the gunshow, and chose to run it again,
a healthy donation to the Boy scouts (like $1000) for their help wouldn't be out of order.
the money goes to an excellent cause...and it may be a burr in some of your club's members
that $1000 is funnelled off from the take for something they could easily do.
Jon

[Boyscout]

I have always worked demanding jobs with long hours which leave little time for family or church. I put a lot of time into Scouts while my sons were in. I belonged to a gun club one year and the work parties were always on Sunday mornings. The best I could do is take extra time with my boys policing the area around us cleaning up after ourselves and others who were not so courteous.

Sunday shoots were the main reason I never got involved in any competitive shooting. Don't have a problem shooting on Sunday afternoons but I will be somewhere else that morning. Obviously a Friday work party would not work in my situation so that leaves me in the position of "consumer."

[felix]

Yep, everyone wants to be democrats, knowingly or not. I want it, and I want it NOW. It's everybody else's fault! I paid for it, so I am king, and everyone else is my slave. On and on. ... felix

It appears Splatter, above post, is correct. ... felix

[craig61a]

Sounds familiar... I belong to a gun club and a Legion post where the number of volunteers vs members is a very small group and always the same people.

[captaint]

10X - You're doing the right thing. And you're doing it by yourself. That can't continue. You need to get firm commitments from members (and yes, they are just consumers). We're all busy with our lives. Some folks just seem to think that their time is more valuable than everyone else's. Their time is special. I think once they believe you will quit doing these things unless you get help, they'll listen and understand. Obviously, you really do care. Now, if you can get some other folks to care too. enjoy Mike

[LAH]

10X I can't speak for anyone but myself but giving the way things are going I would just stop. They will figure it out when the show doesn't happen. Might be a good day to be at the range.

[bowfin]

+# on Starmac.

Don't tell anyone this is your last gun show. Otherwise, you will be persuaded that next time will be totally different...and it will be, for half of the next gun show. Then you will be right back to where you were, loading all the tables yourself the one after that.

We had a local conservation organization that had 300 members who regularly used the camping, shooting, and fishing grounds. The ten that took care of it passed a rule (no one showed up to the meetings, either) that everybody had to put in a certain amount of work to keep their memberships, since the campground upkeep was eating up all those ten people's free time. Over half of the people quit, giving long, melodramatic tirades about their family ties over the generations with the club and how it was being wrenched away. It's the old story about the Little Red Hen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Red_Hen

[10x]

the Elks Club runs the local Gunshow in my area (not my sportsman club).
they hire the local Boy scouts for setup and cleanup, and tear down.

IF you change your mind about not running the gunshow, and chose to run it again,
a healthy donation to the Boy scouts (like $1000) for their help wouldn't be out of order.
the money goes to an excellent cause...and it may be a burr in some of your club's members
that $1000 is funnelled off from the take for something they could easily do.
Jon

Would that we had a Boy Scouts Troop in town. That being said we have Air Cadets but they are mostly under 15. Every volunteer group in the region faces the same problem of getting help that I do.
I offered the show to another club 50 miles away. The president told me he can't get 5 people (out of 200 members) together in a room a meeting - they have 6 executive....

I could get a crew of inmates from the jail to do setup and take down but the optics on that have some weird shades.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I used to be the Prez. of a sportsmans club that had a nice 100 yd. range. There was a lot of talk about making it a 200 yd. range. We asked the National Guard post if they would do the earth moving as a training exercise. There were about 6 - 8 volunteers from the club that said they would be there to help on the chosen day. The day came as did the Guard with several dozers and 10 trainees. I showed up and nobody else bothered. I had a recovering knee surgery and have a heart problem and ailing back. The work of clearing the range of benches and all other items fell to me, the Guard didn`t offer any help for moving this stuff. The next week I caught Holy H**L from the "Helpers" about how the range was made! I would reply simply "Yes, I did it my way since you and the others didn`t show"! I left the club the following year because of this type of "help" and other happenings ranging from theft of property to loss of donated items at a game dinner as prizes that nobody would own up to.Robert

[km101]

I seems to be the same everyhwere. Our club is the same way, and our Western Week activities are coordinated and put on by the same 20-25 people each year. I dont have the answer for how to improve it, but if I were in your place I would let everyone know that if help were not forthcoming, this would be my last show! You obviously dont want to continue as it is and you should not have to.

Draw the line!

[Jammer Six]

I let them go the way they want to go. I let the chips fall where they may.

Sometimes, that means a good range/club/school/trail/league/car/show/choir or whatever goes away.

In the end, that's the way they want it.

They may say otherwise, but given a difference between words and actions, I always believe the actions.

[white eagle]

I think you need to tell them how you are feeling and not us. I can sympathize but that is of little practical use.

I agree 250%
if the fellas want shoot they had better give one way or another to the clubs needs
I get the fact not everyone can help out but they can give in other ways :lovebooli

[Sasquatch-1]

Next meeting make a motion that will require every member to do a given number of hours of support for the club. If they fail to meet the hour requirement and want to keep their membership a charge of $20.00 per hour missed will be assesed. See if people start volunteering then.

The club I belong to requires all new members to do 8 to 10 hrs of work for the club. It not only gets you volunteers but gets the members active in the club.

[PS Paul]

I have unfortunately discovered, through experiences like yours, that many people are "takers" and will not give back. I prove it at work nearly every day. Many simply have no shame, no moral virtue, no ethics, no backbone, no conviction, no sense of common decency, no sense of fair play, no empathy for their fellow man, no desire to improve and no willingness to help folks like you who have the above qualities. I have a relative who scoffs at me and thinks I'm a fool for having "principles and moral/ethical standards"!! His "set of rules" are simply based on earnings of money alone, so I avoid him at all cost.

Although I would support the poster who mentioned the boy scouts as an alternative, I personally would think you would have significantly more "impact" by bowing out. Perhaps then your message may get across.

I had a fellow laugh out loud at my brother and I because we were taking time to pick up a large trash bag's worth of garbage left on the riverbank by careless "sportsman". Guess what happened? The landowner put a fence up with a sign stating NO TRESSPASSING due to destruction of his property that he allowed anglers to use as passage to the river for GENERATIONS !! Can't say that I blame him either. Yup. Degredation of society at large and a more recent "phenomenon" that I have observed. Makes me happy to be part of this forum and community of shooters since I have been treated honorably with trust and respect with several
fellas on the swappin and sellin' area. I am starting to feel like an outcast and a dinosaur for treating others with courtesy and respect and I feel alone at times for considering others in everyday life. A shame.

[PS Paul]

I just told my daughter about your experience and she told me to "calm down, Dad!! You're getting excited!". I suppose I got a little worked up, but man, you deserve better......

[canyon-ghost]

They may say otherwise, but given a difference between words and actions, I always believe the actions. Jammer Six

Well, I was just some guy that shot silhouettes. I ended up welding up targets, mowing, painting ..... Oh, that's how I got to be vice president one year. Anyway, I had to tell them that I'd help them any way I could but, in the end, I'm going to paint a chicken and shoot at it!

I get a chuckle at new people on the range when they have no idea how long I've been wandering around there. I'm just happy with a shooting range but, like you, I'm pretty sure I don't want to do all the work myself.

Ron

[Norbrat]

Next meeting make a motion that will require every member to do a given number of hours of support for the club. If they fail to meet the hour requirement and want to keep their membership a charge of $20.00 per hour missed will be assesed. See if people start volunteering then.

The club I belong to requires all new members to do 8 to 10 hrs of work for the club. It not only gets you volunteers but gets the members active in the club.

In a similar vein, I believe IHMSA used to (still does?) include a volunteer fee into their nominations for the International Championships.

Basically, you pay for and get a voucher, which you can redeem and get a refund when you do a couple of hours work to help run the competition; setting targets, range officering, scorekeeper, etc.

If you choose to not help out and redeem the voucher, you give it to someone who is willing to put the hours in, and then they get the money you paid.

So this way the money has already been paid upfront to pay for the help needed, and it is up to each indvidual to decide if they want to get the refund, or let someone else (other club members, scouts, etc) have the money.

[DCM]

If you don't tell them why they are likely to make ASSumptions that are likely incorrect as to why you are no longer doing it.

I would also agree with Sasquach about the work hours.
If they do not put in X hours charge them X dollars.
One of the clubs I belong to does just that, I often pay the fine rather than work the hours, but I would rather work the hours doing something shooting related. A lot of the time I am stuck with work and family responsibilities that do not allow me to put in the club hours when they are available so I pay the price no qualms or BS.

[L1A1Rocker]

I'd give the President written notice. If you like you can put in the information of lack of help but I wouldn't. I'd simply state that do to progressively degenerating medical conditions (that you mentioned in the O.P.) you will no longer be able to run, nor participate in, the gun show fund raiser. Note that you are able to meat during the week of (insert the time you choose here) for consultation on all the how's and what for's needed for a successful gun show. You may also note that the week prior to the next gun show you will be unavailable for any consultation do to family obligations.

Good luck!


PS, the reason I would not put in anything about not getting help as that leaves him an "in" to get you to stay by promising help. I'd not give him that "in".

[L1A1Rocker]

Sorry, coldn't stay away from this, it really does boil me - I've been there too.

Don't burn your bridges or say anything that could paint you into a complainer. YES, someone (one that doesn't DO anything) will most likely start that BS. In conversations after you give your notice. Simply state that your getting older and it's "time to pass the baton to the next generation" or some such BS. Nobody will say chit about that.

[Blacksmith]

Notes from a consumer:

I am now becoming a consumer. Yes I will still teach marksmanship and coach one evening a week, and help at the steam and gas engine shows, and work a couple of fundraisers for other organizations, and camp out with the Scouts on their shooting weekend, and help with the Sportsmen for kids weekend, and a few things for some of the other organizations I am a member of and support; but I am getting OLD. I am tired and worn and things don't work right anymore. I have got to sit and take breaks or I will fall down or feint.

When I was younger I could help a lot more and I did. It was usually the same people and we got to know each other, you know the ones that could be counted on for even the nasty jobs. Shucks I have been a paid spectator that was recruited out of the crowd to help, I said you got to know each other.

I think I paid my dues and I am at a time in life where I just want to consume for the time I got left. I won't move tables, Doc wouldn't like it, but I'll come and maybe spend a little money though that's getting scarce and maybe a good turn out will help your event.

Some of us just deserve to consume.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

10x,
Since the Boyscout type of thing really doesn't sound like it'll work, I think I'd go with what L1A1 said. Tell 'em that was the last one...they don't need a reason. Offer your consult "ONLY", if someone wants to take on the leadership role. Then you can help as much as you like and leave to have dinner with your family whenever you like, whether the work is done or not.
Jon


I'd give the President written notice. If you like you can put in the information of lack of help but I wouldn't. I'd simply state that do to progressively degenerating medical conditions (that you mentioned in the O.P.) you will no longer be able to run, nor participate in, the gun show fund raiser. Note that you are able to meat during the week of (insert the time you choose here) for consultation on all the how's and what for's needed for a successful gun show. You may also note that the week prior to the next gun show you will be unavailable for any consultation do to family obligations.

Good luck!


PS, the reason I would not put in anything about not getting help as that leaves him an "in" to get you to stay by promising help. I'd not give him that "in".

[Sasquatch-1]

Mandatory work hours for club members. Not only gets the help needed for these type of projects but gets newer members involved in the club. You don't do the hours you don't get renewed.

[Barbarosa]

Next year I would put on a"10X" gun show and keep the profits!

[MBTcustom]

All I have to say is that its typical of the shooting comunity. I just don't understand it. Seems like most of the shooters out there are so cheap that they would drive 100miles to save a nickle on gas. They spend thousands of dollars on a brand new pickup trucks, and thousands of hours reloading, but ask them for help? Oh no. Ask them to contribute some money? not likely. Ask them to write $%^ letter to their local senator? nope, too busy.
Cheap, ungrateful turds if you ask me.
Why are our freedoms in jeapardy from a stinkin minority? because the cheap ungrateful turds don't want to fight for what is right!
Why has gun quality plummited in the last 40 years? because the cheap ungrateful turds don't want to pay a fair price for a good gun.
Why are there not more gun clubs? because if the cheap ungrateful turds cant shoot for free, then they just wont shoot at all.
Amazing!
10X, I wish I lived closer, I would have been there in a minute if you needed help. Sorry you got stuck with all that. I understand why you want to throw in the towel, but I also think there is a way to get the members involved more.
For instance:
You should announce that there will be an increase in club dues of $10 per year, anybody that helps with the fundraiser "for so many hours" will be exempt from this rise in club fee's.
Knowing what I know about firearms enthusiast way of thinking, you will have more help than you know what to do with, the club will make even more money, and comradery will abound from all these folks working together for a common cause. After they have been there for an hour, they will forget all about the fact that they originally came to save themselves $10 and they will enjoy working along side their fellow shooters for a common goal like they should have done in the first place.
Shooters are hard working, kind, and thoughtful, but they have this cheap selfish shell that is about .003 thick that you have to get past before you get to the good stuff.

[C.F.Plinker]

At our club, if you put in 8 hours of work at a work party, you get a work bond. Work parties can include being an RSO for a scheduled match, building target frames, shaping the berms, mowing the grass/field, installing or removing the firing point covers, replacing target sockets, helping at the shotgun tournaments, etc. At the start of the year when it is time to pay the dues for the upcoming year sending in the work bond with your dues check saves you $110 off the full dues. BTW if you will be 65 or over during the year you are paying your dues for no work bond is required to get the savings although your help is always appreciated.

[Jammer Six]

I never give more than I want to. I never give more than I'll resent.

That way, I can honestly face other people, I never feel like I've been taken advantage of, and I'm never in the original poster's position.

If that doesn't meet someone else's expectations, tough boogers.

In my opinion, you're right where you decided to be, so my suggestion would be next time make the choice deliberately, in view of what you now know you can expect from others.

Expecting more than they are going to give is a recipe for anger.

[fatelk]

I have noticed that people tend to be so incredibly busy nowadays. I don't know if it's always been this way, but it seems that anytime you ask someone what they have going on they have absolutely no spare time. Work and family of course, but then people fill up every second with all kinds of activities and responsibilities. Personally I hate it. I can't stand being so busy, but a lot of folks seem to thrive on it.

We have no time, but we make time for the things we really want to do. I quit the local club here, simply because at this point in my life I just want to go shoot once in a while, and can't justify the time and expense of being a club member rather than just a consumer. They have a $120/year work bond that can be worked off in 32 hours, in addition to dues. That's probably fair, but I just can't justify either the time or money right now. I used to help out with projects once in a while, and really enjoyed both the work and getting to know some of the old-timers there (usually the only ones who showed up to work).

One of my pet peeves is folks who flake out. If I say I will be somewhere but can't make it for some reason, it better be a serious reason and I will let someone know as soon as possible. People who say they will help, then just don't show, are inconsiderate losers, in my opinion. Maybe loser is too strong a word, but I sure can't understand it. Isn't your word worth anything? I have a friend who does it all the time. He's a good guy but you can't count on him for anything.

[rockrat]

We had the same problem with our shows, no one or just a few would help set up tables. We ended up getting ahold of the manager of the hall and he hired a crew to do it. Cost about $4 table, but at least it got done. Finally , one of the members took over the work part of it. He gets a cut of the gross.

Next show, tell them, since members wont' help, it will entail a fee of about 25% of the take, to do the work. Charge for your time.
If anyone whines, tell them tough, no one helped ,so this is the way it is now.

[Tazman1602]

Have belonged to several gun clubs in the past. Your experience is the reason that I do not belong to any today.

Larry

+1

My wife and I joined the local gun club here last May -- and I just recieved a "it's time for yearly dues again" letter after having paid for a full years membership less than six months ago. I'm done.

Never did really like the club. Every time we shoot there is a Nazi who is given the title "Range Safety Officer". I have no problem with safety but every time we shoot this moron finds *some* reason to come talk to us and tell us how we are doing things wrong. Just another reason to shoot at my own range out back.

I've tried fitting in but I can't stand it when someone who knows less than I have forgotten about firearms, reloading, and bullet casting tries to give me a lecture. The most recent one was when this guy found out we were bullet casters and decided we needed a lecture on the dangers of lead and how we could hurt our health by casting our own.

I'm done, rant over and to the original poster I would tell the entire club to STUFFIT.

Art

[PS Paul]

Tazman, your story about the "range nazi" sure rings true. Everybody like that wants to be a cop, you know? And the guy who lectured you? Another classic character: the one who wants to "mind your business". Exactly the reason I just keep to myself over at the far corner of the range while shooting away. Once in a while someone will come over and tell me why I cannot shoot lead in my pistols or rifles because of leading in the barrel and sometimes they want to come over and tell me how it's done because I am not decked out in "lamo-camo'tactical buffoonery" as they are. I often wear a button-down and slacks and for some reason, it attracts those who want to "mind my business", like the guy who asked to take a look at my .45 Colt flattop. He asked to see it, so apparently laying it down for him to see, as he requested, was also a no-no (although I have NEVER seen THAT posted ANYWHERE at ANY range) and he made sure to tell me how I should hold it while showing it. I picked it back up, turned around and immediately let loose on target with some boomer loads without giving him opportunity to complete his sentence. He got the message and he has not spoken one word to me since. And that's the way I like it.

[Ola]

In our club just being a member doesn't mean much: the range is open only couple of hours every weekend and also members have to pay EVERY time they use the range. Compared to non-members the range fee is smaller and that is it.

BUT, active members (those who do ALL the work) use the range any time they want and everything is free. Basically only active members are true members of the club. They also make the rules and often so that the rules benefit the actives.

With this system the "consumers" finance everything the club needs. And there is always people who WANT to get the "Active member" status. So they are participating every activity there is to convince the "actives" that they are worthy. For me it took a year to get in..

Maybe this kind of a arrangement would help you? I can guarantee you have enough volunteers anytime you need them..

[Jammer Six]

A "good ol' boy" system is the worst possible answer, for many reasons.

[Tazman1602]

Tazman, your story about the "range nazi" sure rings true. Everybody like that wants to be a cop, you know? And the guy who lectured you? Another classic character: the one who wants to "mind your business". Exactly the reason I just keep to myself over at the far corner of the range while shooting away. Once in a while someone will come over and tell me why I cannot shoot lead in my pistols or rifles because of leading in the barrel and sometimes they want to come over and tell me how it's done because I am not decked out in "lamo-camo'tactical buffoonery" as they are. I often wear a button-down and slacks and for some reason, it attracts those who want to "mind my business", like the guy who asked to take a look at my .45 Colt flattop. He asked to see it, so apparently laying it down for him to see, as he requested, was also a no-no (although I have NEVER seen THAT posted ANYWHERE at ANY range) and he made sure to tell me how I should hold it while showing it. I picked it back up, turned around and immediately let loose on target with some boomer loads without giving him opportunity to complete his sentence. He got the message and he has not spoken one word to me since. And that's the way I like it.

Yup, that's what I'm talking about Paul. I have a machine shop albeit small and I have offered many, many times to build backstops, target stands, etc. The answer I always get is "so and so is the one who handles that, you'll need to get *permission* from him.blah, blah, blah" Sorry, not on my time with my tools.

I've offered to stay overnight at the local gun show to watch over the tables numerous times and have been turned down. I finally figured out there are a bunch of "good ole boys" who do this and that way they get the pick of the show. That one took me a while to figure out as I am not that way.

The one that really, really got to me though was when the little fat guy with all the "NRA Certified Instructor" patches on his fancy dancy little shirt gave my wife and I the lecture on bullet casting. He asked who made all my bullets (they are sized to the barrel and extremely accurate) and when I told him I was the one who cast them he got all excited. He asked where I cast them and I told him pretty much in my basement in the winter. He then almost jumped up and down and said "NO NO NO!" YOU CAN'T DO THAT! THE LEAD FUMES COULD KILL YOU!"

I then gently explained to him that at the temperature lead actually gives off fumes, IF that ever happened I would probably be outside the house. He just looked at me funny and asked what I meant. I told him that lead doesn't let off fumes until it gets to such a temperature that IF, in the unlikelyhood it would fume, it would mean my house was on fire and I wouldn't be in it. Then he looked at me really funny and I jumped on the opportunity.

I asked him how many bullets he had cast in his lifetime and what he knew about the properties of lead, tin, and antimony. He said he didn't cast because of the dangers of lead and that lead bullets would lead the bore........................my reply?

"it figures".............right before I walked away. My Ruger Vaquero .357 has never seen a jacketed bullet and I have never had to clean the lead out of the barrel because it doesn't exist.

To the OP I am sorry your club has done this to you, I wouldn't even THINK of bailing on ANYONE to let them clean up the mess. I wouldn't waste my breath. Just stop doing for them and let them do for themselves.

As a matter of fact, the ONLY source of fellowship and goodwill I have EVER experienced from a *group* atmosphere has been right here on this forum. If I have needed something, a member ALWAYS steps up, gets me what I need, and never accepts payment for it. I try to reciprocate that by giving away extra stuff I have to members who need it.

How about the guy who goes to the bench, shoots one shot, and is cranking on his scope? Ya' can't explain something to someone who doesn't want to learn. I'm middle age (50's), have been reloading for 30 years, and every single time I come to this forum I learn something new. Sometimes from an older member but many times from a younger one.

Sorry for the rant fellas but the "gun club thing" really gets me going.

Art

[Tazman1602]

A "good ol' boy" system is the worst possible answer, for many reasons.

Absolutely Jammer! It is my fondest wish that most members of this forum lived in my county. We could have the BEST gun club in the United States!

Art

[Ola]

A "good ol' boy" system is the worst possible answer, for many reasons. I'm not sure what you mean. In the system I described there is no "elitism" because anyone has a chance to get in just by being an active member.

Just make a choice:
a) money
b) work

In my experience huge majority of the members are NOT willing to work so they happily pay their range fees.

[Splatter]

Then why, among the many people offering suggestions here, are you the only one reacting to my comment?

It never fails. Open the door to a crowded room, yell "hey, stupid!" and someone will jump up and yell back "I'm not stupid!"

Your analogy is not really applicable here. Instead of opening the door and shouting, you've been listening to the conversations, then right after someone finishes speaking you yell "You're stupid!"
It's true that your comment may not have been directed at the last speaker; but by any western-societal norms that I am aware of, almost everyone would reasonably infer that your comment was, in fact, directed at the last speaker.
If your comment was not directed at the last "speaker", (made about 5 hours before you left your comment) then I think it would be reasonable, and much more mature, if you just said who your comment was directed to, rather than fall back on the pseudo-intellectual "maybe I wasn't talking to you" position.
Really, it doesn't look good on my 5 year old, it is certainly not becoming on someone that should be nominally considered an adult.

[10x]

Holy thread derail Batman.....

To bring this back to prospective.
About five years ago the club held an appreciation trap shoot and supper for a heavy equipment supplier who "demoed" a hoe and a cat at our range. They left the equipment there for two weeks and we used it to upgrade backstops, build a handgun range, and build up the road to the 500 metre range.

There were six of us club members who volunteered that day. When it was time to cook supper all six volunteers were there. Supper was Rib steak and they, as volunteers, got to eat as well. As soon as supper was over one club member (rather than help with the clean up ) decided to break out his black powder cartridge rifle. The other volunteers (except for one lady) decided they had "important appointments" elsewhere and left. The shoot and supper were over by 7:00 pm. The lady who stayed back to help (diabetic) was not able to do much. I was the guy who ended up packing chairs, putting away tables, and returning the BBQ, tables, and chairs to the group I had borrowed them from.

It appears that volunteers are willing to eat expensive steaks but after they get the cream, simply leave. It is all fun til there is work to be done, then they go home.

[Jim]

The 10/90 syndrome.

[Sasquatch-1]

Holy thread derail Batman.....


There were six of us club members who volunteered that day. When it was time to cook supper all six volunteers were there. Supper was Rib steak and they, as volunteers, got to eat as well. As soon as supper was over one club member (rather than help with the clean up ) decided to break out his black powder cartridge rifle. The other volunteers (except for one lady) decided they had "important appointments" elsewhere and left. The shoot and supper were over by 7:00 pm. The lady who stayed back to help (diabetic) was not able to do much. I was the guy who ended up packing chairs, putting away tables, and returning the BBQ, tables, and chairs to the group I had borrowed them from.

It appears that volunteers are willing to eat expensive steaks but after they get the cream, simply leave. It is all fun til there is work to be done, then they go home.

This is the second comment like this. People showed up to work, did work and then left before all the work was done. I do not condone leaving a single person to clean up a mess (and especially find the guy who went to shoot very rude) but at least these people were there in the first place. maybe you should be more worried about the 99% who did not show up at all.

[Echo]

Many possible solutions to the OP's situation have been ventured. Here's another.

Tell the Pres that you WILL run the next show, but HE must raise the required number of volunteers. Once he has 120% firm (?) commitments, only then will you formally accept the position of Gun Show Honcho. That's called delegation - sometimes we MUST use upward delegation to get things done...

[10x]

Many possible solutions to the OP's situation have been ventured. Here's another.

Tell the Pres that you WILL run the next show, but HE must raise the required number of volunteers. Once he has 120% firm (?) commitments, only then will you formally accept the position of Gun Show Honcho. That's called delegation - sometimes we MUST use upward delegation to get things done...

Indeed, advertise a gun show, do the publicity for 8 to ten months, get vendors who travel for 900 plus miles booking tables then cancel in the last minute???
That would be a disaster as no vender would ever consider committing to attend again. The Pres. is part of the problem.... His solution "hire people". That brings in liability and workers comp rules come into play. The club insurance does cover volunteers - workers comp covers workers.

[Blacksmith]

10X go and get a quote from a subcontractor to provide all the labor, make sure the subcontractor is insured and covers workman's comp. When the President sees the quote you probably won't be having a show.

[10x]

10X go and get a quote from a subcontractor to provide all the labor, make sure the subcontractor is insured and covers workman's comp. When the President sees the quote you probably won't be having a show.

The show has been taken over by another club in another town. They can benefit...

[FISH4BUGS]

I served on the Planning Board in my community for 13 years. When a developer made application to put in a development within earshot of the range, I volunteered to challenge it with all my knowledge and expertise as a Planning Board member (not in the same community as I lived in by the way). the Club's Board was delighted to have the help and the land use expertise on their side. .
My recommendation to the Board was to basically attend the meetings and raise all kinds of legitimate objections (not too hard to do with a development of this size), thus slowing the approval of project and costing the developer more money. Requiring environmental studies, raising objections to traffic studies, challenging lot sizes, wildlife studies, etc......I sat through many of these as a Planning Board member and knew how the game was played.
When the time was right, then we would approach the devleoper and agree to have a plan note on each lot placed at the registry that there is an active shooting range within earshot of the propery being purchased. That way the buyers could not claim they didn't know.
I researched all the local zoning laws, attended all the hearings, spoke with specific objections, got the neighbors organized, etc. It was literally HUNDREDS of hours of volunteer time.
ONE person complained the Board about how I was progressing, and on one of my monthly reports to the Board (public meeting) they started reaming me about my techniques, how they were getting complaints (thy didn't know that I knew it was just one disgruntled abutter) and started to be critical of my approach.
After listening to 5 or 10 minutes of how I was embarrassing the club, how the perception of the club was being tarnished, etc. I got up and walked out. I resigned my volunteer position and I told the Board that they agreed to my strategy, told me what they wanted, and then kicked me in the teeth for it. I did not need that. I am OUTA HERE!
Sorry boys.....I am now just a member and a work party grunt labor volunteer. My validation will come when the new homeowners sue the club into extinction.
Why do these idiots do what they do? They criticize people for giving their time and expertise. I don't need it.
Why is it that just a few do the REAL work, give 100% and then the rest of them just slide by?....and complain about it?

[contender1]

10x, your OP has spun off into a direction about gun clubs & the lack of member support.

I feel your pain.

I'm a volunteer for the Friends of the NRA. Have been for years. That & a few other organizations such as BSA, (42 yrs) RMEF, (11 yrs) to name a few.

It's blaintly obvious to me that if you want a job done,, ask a busy person who believes in the project. They will make the time to do it because they believe in it.

I also own a private gun range. We also have a gun club. Very basic. My range is private,, not open to the public. Gun club members do not have access to the range at their discretion. ONLY the folks who I have working knowledge of their safety practices, AND who volunteer to help put on matches or upkeep of the range get range privilages. No work, no use, period.
As mentioned,, about 10% of the people do 90% of the work. But those 10% get the use of a range and it's facilities.

So, for your problem, I'd give notice that you were suspending your involvement in the gun show,, and as noted,, use your age & health as a fair reason. You wouldn't be lying. You can just be omitting another reason. Then, make plans to not be available for any future gun show advice or work.

Maybe one of these days when folks run out of good places to shoot they will realize why. But I doubt it.

It used to be that you could go shooting in many places w/o any problems. Nowadays,, it's harder to find places to shoot. So,, for those who can't work,, they will have to pay. For those who's age or health prevents work,, then they can get a bit of a pass. But even older folks, or those with limitations can do SOMETHING!

Sorry to see something good go away.

[Sasquatch-1]

So, for your problem, I'd give notice that you were suspending your involvement in the gun show,, and as noted,, use your age & health as a fair reason. You wouldn't be lying. You can just be omitting another reason. Then, make plans to not be available for any future gun show advice or work.



I disagree here. I think you should tell them the true reason you are quitting during a very crowded meeting. Let them know that it is appathy that is costing them a sizable chunk of their budget.

[FISH4BUGS]

I disagree here. I think you should tell them the true reason you are quitting during a very crowded meeting. Let them know that it is appathy that is costing them a sizable chunk of their budget.

During a Board meeting, which included all members, I walked away with my parting words about "...how can a Board expect people to volunteer to do things for the club whern all they get for it is criticism? I don't need or want that, and I doubt anyone else does either".
Did it make a dfference? I have no idea. But people that have their heads up their tushes rarely hear what others have to say anyway. Maybe they will remember when the club is sued out of existence.
At least I did my part in telling them. They can do with that as they please. Don't ask me to do anything except work party grunt labor again.