Pistol Primers in Rifle Cases

[Shiloh]

I've seen reference to using pistol primers in rifles referred to a couple of times
on this forum. What would be the advantage to this?? Are pistol primers hotter?

Shiloh :castmine:

[Freightman]

I've seen reference to using pistol primers in rifles referred to a couple of times
on this forum. What would be the advantage to this?? Are pistol primers hotter?

Shiloh :castmine:
I made a mistake and loaded some 7.62x39 ammo with some small pistol primers in some R-P cases big mistake can you say full auto 30 rds in my AK. Fun only if you can control it not a good feeling when you are just hanging on.

[44man]

The AK can do that with rifle primers too if they are not the hard military ones. I have sprung a lot of firing pins for friends to prevent slam fires.
Pistol primers can work fine with reduced loads and cast boolits. I use them in the 45-70 with black powder to give a softer ignition without the pressure.

[GrizzLeeBear]

Pistol primers in rifle cartridges are sometimes used when shooting low pressure loads for target shooting, usually in a T/C Contender or similar. I know some guys that use them in 22 hornet for field pistol silhouette loads. Pistol primers provide softer and more consistent ignition to small charges of powder that don't fill up the case. The application is mostly limited to small cases in situations like these. Pistol primers have softer cups and of course can not be used in high pressure loads. There are also a number of "pistol" calibers that call for rifle primers, like the 357 Maximum, etc.

[JSH]

Ditto to the above. I use pistol primers in the Hornet. But, in my 357 mag TC I use rifle primers. I have used lg pistol in a few rifles, but low pressure plinking loads with no bad signs. I messed up with a brain fart one night a couple of years ago and loaded some 221 fireball ammo with small magnum pistol primers. They flattened out quite a bit. I thought I had loaded a max laod until I checked my load and realized what I did.
Jeff

[BudRow]

I use pistol primers in the Hornet in combination with 12.5 grs. of AA1680 and a 45gr. bullet. It is a very good load. However with IMR 4227 I have experienced pierced primers. Perhaps I was pushing it a little too much. Over the last 15 years I have often looked for WW680 and never could find any. I know it was discontinued in the 80s or early 90s but it was always touted as the best powder for the Hornet. As luck would have it, I found 2 lbs. at gun shows in the last year and bought them both. Been too busy with milsurps and cast to try it in the Hornet.
Best Wishes, Bud

[felix]

Going critical. In loading ammo we always want the main charge to go critical. This means a full progressive burn, with only one and only one peak pressure trace visualization. The smallest primer in terms of power to do this is what is required. Any more primer power, the trace can become skewed towards the muzzle giving a shallow dip towards the chamber. Any less power, the chamber dip might or might not occur depending on main charge position within the case. This latter situation calls for a booster charge, or a slightly hotter primer. Now contrast this with a nuke power plant where the primer is never enough for the main charge to go critical even if it could. There simply is not enough main charge installed for the progressive burn to go into a true nuke phase. ... felix

[grumpy one]

I fired a total of 80 CCI large pistol magnum primers in my K98, with around 15 grains of Nobel 60 shotgun powder and 115 grain plain base cast bullets. Three of those primers pierced. Pressure would have been low by rifle standards - those plain base bullets grouped into 3" at 50 yards. My interpretation is that the K98 action imparts way, way too much firing pin striking energy to the primer for the use of soft primers to be safe.

[Bass Ackward]

The theory of cast is to start a cast bullet off as gently as possible. That logic works for powder selection, powder charges and primers if understood and used logically. The key word there is logically.

The logic is usually bass ackward to what you are used to thinking with jacketed bullets.

For me, normal cast loads in rifles get hard bullets and magnum primers to reach forward and ignite the powder. This often negates the need for fillers. The hard bullets do not need lighter primers so I take advantage of that.

On hunting loads using softer lead, easily ignited (stick), slower powders (> 80% fill) charges, I can normally get another 100 - 200 fps over rifle primers. Especially in cartridges not deemed over bore. And accuracy can be enhanced too. Often these loads are 1 - 2 MOA with the best rifle primer loads, drop to sub MOA with pistol primers.

[okiecruffler]

I load alot of blue dot in 223 cases and I found that I get more consistant velocity and a little better groups with pistol primers.

[MtGun44]

Only use the pistol primers for low pressure loads. The primer
shell is softer and thinner, therefore weaker.

I learned this lesson on my very first attempt to handload, 40 years
ago with a nice Mauser 95 7x57. I mistakenly got Remington pistol
primers (2 1/2?) which didn't SAY pistol anywhere on the box, just
#2 1/2 (or whatever).

On the first shot the recoil really smacked my right thumb HARD, much
harder than with milsurp ammo. I was confused a bit, and the bolt
opened REALLY easily, almost springloaded. :-?

The second shot really smacked my poor thumb again, and I stopped
and looked hard at the rifle - suddenly noticing that the striker
was COCKED! Closer examination showed pierced primers venting
gas to recock the striker and the striker was striking my thumb.
The good news is that Mausers are safe for idiots to learn to reload
with. :roll:

SO - rifle primers for full power rifle loads.

Bill

[leftiye]

Bud Row, If n when you get around to using that 680 in the hornet let us (or PM me) know how it turns out please. I happen to have a pound or two that I don't know what I bought it for, and just picked up a couple of hornet rifles.

[BudRow]

leftiye, it will be a while before I get around to trying the WW680 in the Hornet as I am working with a single purpose to finish my home. However some handloader manuals of the recent past have good data, the lyman 46th edition cones to mind. So, I too would be interested in your results should you get to it ahead of me. Don't want to hijack the thread but I would like to know what makes & models of your newly acquired Hornets are.
Best Wishes, Bud

[omgb]

Pistol primers can sometimes casue a problem in single shots but I don't know if this carries over to bolt guns. What happens is that the primers are a smidgen shallower than rifle primers. When hit, they pop and then are driven back but the powder charge. This had a peening effect on the fireing pin hole on the face of the breech. BPCR shooters frequently bush this area for just such reasons.

[joeb33050]

Pistol primers can sometimes casue a problem in single shots but I don't know if this carries over to bolt guns. What happens is that the primers are a smidgen shallower than rifle primers. When hit, they pop and then are driven back but the powder charge. This had a peening effect on the fireing pin hole on the face of the breech. BPCR shooters frequently bush this area for just such reasons.

I was taught to use pistol primers in SS rifles, preferably Rem 2 1/2s, and have used those and WLR recently with all cast loads forever. In bolt guns also, 30/06 and 300 WM work fine-I shoot low velocity fast powder cast bullet loads. I have never had a problem with LP primers in any rifle, and have shot a lot, well over 3000 in a M54 Win 30WCF, over 10,000 in a Martini 30/30, many in a C. Sharps 45/70. I think the BPCR problem must have to do with the BP.
BTW,Larry, thanks for the Hornady, but I had plastic fouling in 4. Must be my load or something.

[HORNET]

omgb,
Large Pistol primers are (IIRC) .010" thinner than Large Rifle primers (Small Rifle and Small Pistol are the same thickness). The theory was that that .010 free run could let the primer indent the soft steel (or iron) breech block in some of the old rfles which could lock them up. Any truth?? Dunno, but I've got a couple of Remington bolt guns with some pitting on the bolt face around where the primer would leak (not that I'd ever push things that hard [smilie=1:).

[30yrcaster]

Pistol primers are getting used more in BPCR. It's believed the primers used originally in the Sharps and others were no way near as hot as std rifle primers of today. Some BPCR target shooters feel they get a better ignition of the large amounts of black powder. There are some problems using them as some have reported cratering of the block where the fireing pin hole is due to the smaller thickness of the pistol primer. You'd hate to ruin a sevreal thousand dollar Sharps or Ballard.

There is a solution to the problem. There's a swage to turn your 45/70 based cases or others primer pocket into a large pistol primer pocket. Must then remember you can't use std rifle primers in them anymore so your $1 each shell is changed forever.