help Squib rounds problem.

[Mabbus4]

hi everyone I have been lurking around on the site for a while and have learned tons. after much reading and research I started reloading and casting my own at the same time. I have thoroughly enjoyed it. currently I am only reloading 2 types of rounds, 9mm and 380 ACP. I have had 100 percent success with the 9mm rounds, however the 380 rounds are squib rounds. it seems the first couple 380 rounds shot fine then the next bunch all kept getting stuck. below is what I'm using and the process.

I am currently using a lee double cavity mold. 358-105-swc , lubed with Lee liquid alox , size down .356 then lubed once more.

I am using 3.1 grains of hodgons hp-38. I'm sure I might have forgotten something but any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated thank you much. ps: please excuse the grammatical and lack of capitalization I am writing this from my phone.

[runfiverun]

you'll have to elaborate on the getting stuck part.

are they stove piping?
not quite going into battery?
jamming on the feed ramp?
not being picked up from the magazine?

[C.F.Plinker]

When you say they are getting stuck I assume that the boolit is getting stuck in the barrel. If this is correct they you are probably not getting powder in the case and the primer has enough oomph to get the boolit out of the case and lodge it partway up the barrel.

Are you using a single stage press and a loading block or a progressive/turret press? How do you check to insure that the correct amount of powder is getting into each and every case?

[mdi]

Squibs are from low powder charge, no powder charge, or failed powder charge (either bad powder or failure of the primer to ignite). Usually, and most common, is a "no powder charge" condition. What kind/type of press are you using. How did you measure the powder charge?

[Mabbus4]

yes the rounds are getting stuck in a barrel. I would say they heey stuck about 3/4 of the way down. I am loading on a single stage press and I hand measure with a scale for every round of the powder. every shot has the distinct Squibb sound. I stop after about 4 in a row. what bottles my mind is I already tried out this bullet and amount of powder in this gun about 4 weeks ago and every round out of about 10 shot perfect.


does my measure of powder , lubing and sizing seem correct to you? thanks

[nekshot]

On the bright side of this you sure have plenty oppurtunity to measure your bore diameter!

[C.F.Plinker]

If the same load worked 4 weeks ago you have to look at what could have changed since then. Chances are that it will be something fairly simple. Are you using an electronic scale or a balance beam scale? Did you calibrate it or zero it when you started your last loading session? If it is a balance beam scale did you zero it out, use a check wieght, and make sure that the poises were set correctly? If you have any rounds that are left over from that session could you pull the boolits on some of them and weigh the charges from those rounds to see how much powder actually went into the case?

Since you looked at each charge you would have noticed if the powder was clunping or had changed color in any way. If you washed your brass did you make sure that all of them were thoroughly dry before you loaded them.

[popper]

You forgot to put the powder in the case. Look into each case before seating the CB. If you have a powder measure (not dipper) measure several drops, the measure 10 and check weight. Drop the powder directly into the case, look into the case and verify, then seat the CB. Yes, in a 40SW they go about 1" into the bbl. @~4 gr you won't be able to guarenty the diff in sqib cases.

[runfiverun]

look at the crimp, and oal.
and make sure the lube isn't gumming up the works.

[375RUGER]

I would say to double check each and every charge to make sure you are putting powder in the case. 3.8 HP38 is a good amount in that small case, that is a lot of that powder for that size boolit. 1g of HP38 should push that boolit out the barrel of a 380.

[DCM]

Exactly what are you using fur lube lube?
Are you storing your ammo bullets up or bullets down?

[Mabbus4]

wow no short supply of possibilities.

because I'm Newark this I have been very meticulous about weighing every charge checking every case and watching the power go in every case. when the power goes in they are placed in a different area. and then double checked again. so I have to cut out the lack.


alright I'm going to take a stab at this, I'm a newbie
if 3.1 grains of hp-38 is a lot is it possible that there is not enough room for the powder to expand to provide propulsion? or is my thinking off and more powder always equals bigger boom.

what would the mass experts recommend for a 105 grain bullet in a 380 cartridge using hp-38?

also is it possible my first 3-5 shots leaded my barrel in a ffreak unexplainable way that lead to the next few rounds getting stuck from the lead build up? does that even happen? Thxs everyone for the help.

[Horace]

What manual are you using for this load?

Horace

[C.F.Plinker]

Lyman 48 doesn't show a 105 grain cast boolit. They do show data for 231 which Hodgdon says is identical to HP38. They show a 2.3 grain starting load and a 3.5 grain max load for the 90 grain boolit and 2.1 starting and 3.2 grains max for a 120 grain boolit. Your 105 grain boolit is right in the middle. Based on this I would not go any higher than your 3.1 grains without doing a complete workup again.

More powder generally means a bigger boom. Even a little TOO MUCH powder means a KABOOOOM. In addition to hurting yourself and others who may be near you can damage and could destroy your pistol if this occurs.

Too see if there is leading look down the barrel and see if there is good rifling from one end to the other. Also take one of the formerly stuck boolits and, using a micrometer, measure the diameter of the largest part of the boolit. This will be where the boolit was engraved by the grooves and will look like raised bands circling diagonally around the boolit.

[44man]

I can't blame the powder or the charge and it seems much care is being used. It is a tough call for me since I load much larger stuff and have zero experience with a case I can't hold in my fingers! :roll:
Yet it might just be the tiny case.
I get the feeling the boolit is not offering enough resistance to primer pressure and is moving out.
Is there enough case tension?
Is the boolit too small in diameter? Rifling should hold it in long enough. That goes for nose shape too and if it can contact the rifling.
Dies used? The right expander but soft boolits getting sized when seated.
Over size expander with no tension?
High pressure primer?

[I'll Make Mine]

With fast pistol powders, the rifling alone should provide plenty of resistance to build/maintain pressure (as should case tension sufficient to keep the bullet from backing into the case on feeding), and in that tiny case, position means nothing. What works in the 9x19 should be fine in .380 (except less powder, please). If the first few were fine and then all after were squibs, I'd have to say pull all the bullets from the rest of that batch. I think you'll find some or all of the cases didn't get charged, regardless of your procedures and precautions.

How could cases "lose" their charge after visual confirmation of charges in a block? If the block got bumped fairly hard after cases were charged and inspected, if the cases got tipped too far or jerked around in handling before bullet seating, or if something changed in the powder charging process and they got, instead of 3.1 grains, say, 0.3 grains of powder (just about enough to cover the bottom of the case). A boolit stuck 3/4 of the way down a .380 barrel, though, is primer-only territory, or under one grain of fast powder at a maximum.

[Griz44mag]

Really strange. I would suspect scale issues myself. I cast that same bullet from that molds twin. I too, use LLA for lube and load with 3.0 of HP-38. It's a zippy round and functions great in my Bersa Thunder and Ruger pocket pistol. If you are getting squibs with that load, then you have a powder or ignition issue. Bad powder, bad scale, powder contamination, primers, etc....
If you had a barrel obstruction from leading, you would NOT be hearing a weak poof from you squibs. It would be more of a clap of thunder from the excess pressure banging the slide into your forehead. Isolate your ignition and burn issues, it has to be there.

[I'll Make Mine]

If it were bad primers, they wouldn't push the boolit a couple inches down the bore, they'd just go "click" instead of "bang".

[StratsMan]

I think you'll find that Plinker (post#7) has found the key: something has changed from the working loads you made. Something you may have not noticed... like lead accumulation in the barrel... You didn't say what alloy this little boolit is made of... that's a stiff load for a 120 grain cast boolit... Hodgdon data says 3.1 grains is max load for a 100 grain jacketed bullet... I'll wager you're compressing the powder with that cast boolit... very good chance of leading... I shoot that boolit in 38 special with less powder...

You're clearly paying attention to things that you are aware of, but there is likely something happening that you're not aware of... is all of the powder out of the same container? (I assume so....) How old is that container of powder??? What primers are you using???

Look for factors that may have changed without you noticing immediately.....

[44man]

Something is still missing here.
Did the stuck boolit have unburned powder behind it? If so, it is a primer push issue.
If not it is lack of powder.
Has the man used mag primers?
Squib loads do not go "bang."

[dragonrider]

As mentioned above I would be checking your scale. Do you have check weights???

[DCM]

If you are using some type of petroleum based lube it could be contaminating the primers/powder.
I have used some very poorly igniting "heavy metal free primers" that I believe could cause ignition problems also. :o They are horrendous!! :x

[mpmarty]

Do you have any other powder around? 3.1gr of a slow powder might produce this effect also. Make sure of only having one powder on the bench at a time and verify it is from an original container properly marked.

[Mabbus4]

someone asked if whether I was storing my bullets bullet side down or bullet side up. does that matter or is there a proper way to store them?

I do always recalibrate my scales with weights every time I sit back at te bench. I will check many of the things mentioned. unfortunately I don't live close to a range and live in a residential neighborhood so it maybe sometime until I can do some testing. If/ when I learn of the problem I will be sure and give an update. Thxs

[popper]

I determined that using a loading block, funnel and weighing each round cause me to mess up and get squibs. Too many manual operations to keep track of, yes, I thought I checked each case for powder. Very difficult with 4 gr HP-38 in a 40SW case, no, just easy to mess up. Pull some and SEE what is wrong. Put a loaded case into the press, use a piece of PVC pipe and wire cutters to grab the CB and pull it out. Dump the powder, if any, into the scale and check it. Contaminated powder will come out in a clump. If the LLA was dry when loaded, there is no reason for contaminated powder. No it doesn't make a difference how they are stored.

[mooman76]

Even a small charge of powder should get the bullet out of the barrel unless it's way way low. That's a small bullet and shouldn't take much to push it out. If you have some left and I assume you do, tear them down and examine what you have. It almost has to be lack of powder or bad/contaminated powder. I wouldn't rule out bad primers either but probably not. I always look over my powder loaded brass (with a flashlight for bottle necked case) before installing bullets.

[454PB]

If the boolits are being forced into the barrel, the primers are igniting.

How long do you let the Lee LA dry before loading?

This sounds like a powder contamination problem to me.

[DCM]

If the boolits are being forced into the barrel, the primers are igniting.

How long do you let the Lee LA dry before loading?

This sounds like a powder contamination problem to me.

Didn't catch the Lee LA earlier. Good catch.

Powder contamination was where I was headed though, which is why I asked if he was storing bullets up or bullets down.
If the lube was not completely dry before loading it may not make much difference up or down with those tiny cases and small dose of powder.

If you were using a petroleum based lube which I would not recommend I would say keep them bullets down to help keep the lube from getting to the primer.