Intersting observation today (124g 9mm)

[Wyatt1]

I was having the missus try out a couple different powders for a 124g round nose 9mm cast for function check. Our "backstop" is a single stack of car tires with a 2x10 leaned against it. After shooting we found a half dozen unblemished bullets on the ground right behind the tires. Unblemished to the point of being reloadable.The bullets are just water dropped wheel weights. I figured (hoped) they'd deform. Range was about 7 yards. Should I stop water dropping to get a decent expanding bullet? Thanks.

Powders were HS-6 and AA#7 midrange charge. Gun was SA XDM.

[MikeS]

I would at the very least cast up some and air cool them, and give them to same trial. If they expand, then the next question is did they lead the bore? If they expand as you like, but lead the bore, then the simple answer is to water drop your practice ammo, but not your carry ammo. I'm assuming you would be using the boolits for self defense, as I can't imagine anyone hunting with a 9mm, or at least hunting anything that needs expansion. If they both expanded, and didn't lead your bore, than that's your answer too.

[lwknight]

Getting the 9mm to both shoot well without leading and to show expansion is tricky business. The 9mm is one of my favorite pistols. I have 3 different ones.
The main problem is the very limited case capacity. Slow powders will never build up enough pressure and too fast powder will have sudden pressure and/or too much of it.

There are a few threads about hollow points that worked very well and the 9mm can be gotten up to near "off the walmart shelf watered down" .357 magnum velocity but you will be pushing the limits. Trying to make the 9mm into a reliable self defense weapon is not for the faint of heart or inexperienced hand loader.

There were some good discussions and a few sore words in this thread.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=93083

Also the tires are probably not much of a calibration of bullet performance because its like a soft stop. Sure the rubber is tough but its light in mass density so its not nearly as hard as water or tissue from a bullets point of view.

[MtGun44]

WD is not necessary for 9mm. WD is not going to expand at pistol velocities. IMO,
stop WD if you want expansion, use soft alloy and probably a hp.

Bill

[runfiverun]

or keep on water dropping and start cutting the alloy with more and more soft lead.

[Wyatt1]

Thanks for the info fellas!

[Wayne Smith]

I'm just trying to visualize this. 2x10 leaned up against tires. I can't see how you can be certain those boolits did anything but penetrate the 2x10. I can't imagine a stack of tires that won't have channels in it for something to slip through.

[beagle]

I commonly use three HP bullets in my 9mms. It's kind of a waste of time IMO but I like to shoot HP bullets so I keep on casting and loading them.

The 358242HP is unreliable as to expansion unless you're right on your target.

The 356402HP is a waste of time for the same reason.

The only fair success I have acheived is with the 358480HP SWC. It will expand at 25 yards and sometimes at 50 depending on how fast you start it. I'm using a Ruger convertible and two Browning HPs and this has been my experiences. This is with air cooled WWs softened by some pure lead with Pat Marlin's .35PB pop can GCs on them./beagle

[noylj]

Why do you want expansion?
How did the base of the bullets look before and after shooting? I assume they did have rifling marks.
Do you have any idea what the BHN of the bullets is?
I prefer L-SWCs and don't think I would need expansion. They work great for small game and I wouldn't use a lead bullet for S/D or H/D as I want a premium round for that task (and a larger caliber).
If you get a 9x19 to shoot well with ANY bullet, just be glad.
A question for the experts: I assume that physics has changed or more has been learned, but back in the '70s, water dropping was only done for shooting as-cast bullets because the bearing surface would revert to soft after sizing--or, at least, that was what all the reports said.
Since I started shooting ONLY as-cast bullets sometime in the late '70s or early '80s, I did water drop bullets.
However, I found no improvement in accuracy or decreased leading and didn't like having water any where near my casting area.

[fcvan]

Last Friday, I shot some .357 boolits cast with range scrap and PBS gas checks. The boolits were a Lee 356-120 TC (cast weight 125gr) and a Lee C358-158 SWCHP. I doubled the pop can checks just to see how they performed on a boolit designed for gas checks. Loads were approximately 1200fps.

After 100 rounds, the bore was clean as a whistle, the recovered slugs fired into dirt mushroomed nicely, and the loads were quite accurate with the 125. The 158 was not so great as I think the doubled checks were not quite thick enough. I'm going to do the test with checks doubled from thicker can material just to see. I'm also going to PB check some Lee 358-158RF to see how they fly.

Shooting softer alloy with checks definitely expanded nicely whereas I've shot straight WW loads which were non expanding. I'll leave my harder alloy for rifle use and continue to enjoy the performance of softer range scrap for plinking loads or gas checked for performance loads. Frnk

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Don't know if it is possible or not but a bullet bouncing back off of a tire would not be fun...

[lwknight]

I think that meant the bullets shot through the tires and were slowed enough to just bounce off the 2X10 behind them. That's why there was a pile on the ground.