Whats a Loverin For?

[catmandu]

I was hoping to learn more about Loverin style boolits.

Its not a current popular offering - at least based on the mould tables.

But when they come up for sale they sell quickly. So what is their nitch? Is it for paper patching? Or for plain base non GC shooting? Or something else?

Please enlighten me.

Paul in WNY

[Wally]

They have many small grease grooves and have a lot of bearing area. Typically they require a gas check and are not made for paper patching. They have a good reputation for being very accurate. I think it is fair to say that they require the least effort, of any available bullet deisgn to obtain an accurate load with, generally speaking.

[Chicken Thief]

BP shooting.
They hold a LOT of lube.
And the way they're designed they will obturare readily (cast soft enough!)

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Til%20andre/R0011040_zps26ead0da.jpg

[Wayne S]

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_topic.php?id=8880&forum_id=49
This doesn't answer your question, but is good read.
The Loverin design when it was first introduced was at a time when there weren't all the "modern" bullet lubes we enjoy today. The mulit lube design allowed more of the "auto greases" lubes to be applied to the bullets.
The 2nd, and more important feature is the tapered design of the bullet. Check NOE's site for the MX and 311407 designs and you will notice that the base starts out at above throat Dia. and the top DB is at or just above bore Dia.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

They are the signature design of Guy Loverin a well known icon in the world of cast bullets. The pics previously shown are a good cross section of some of his more well known productions. He was of an era that saw most casting done by the ladle method and he wrote articles for some of the earlier Lyman handbooks. He gave a lot of good advice on basic casting techniques and the one phrase of his that stuck with me was, "Watch the quality and not the clock". The many lube grooves and bands were characteristic of his designs; lubes were not as advanced as they are now and one needed more of it, but it made casting of the longer rifle bullets a bit trickier to get everything properly filled out. you had to watch what you were doing a little more closely. But his designs were successes and are still highly sought after. LLs

[quilbilly]

This is cool. I didn't know the 6 mm Ideal mold I picked up at a garage sale was a Loverin boolit. Shoots great in my 6mm Rem.

[PS Paul]

There was a thread a few weeks back about Loverin that included a reply from a relative. Neice or granddaughter? It was pretty neat since she gave a little background on the man and his work.....

[J..]

As mentioned, the Loverin bullets carry a lot of lube. They also have very little of their length unsupported in the barrel (compared to other designs of the time).

Note that there are Loverin bullets and then there are Loverin-style bullets. True Loverin bullets ar not flat nosed. (S0 #311407, #311457, etc. are not 'true' Loverins.)

[1Shirt]

Have a half dozen of them in various cals. all shoot well. Look cool when all grooves are filled with red or blue lubes in loaded rounds.
1Shirt!

[Char-Gar]

The multiband bullet is nothing new. It was popular among the black powder and early smokeless power shooters for generations before Guy Loverin got in on the act.

It was Loverin who adopted the idea to smaller caliber gas checked cast bullets for 20th century rifles. I really don't think that it was a lube issue for Loverin, as these bullets shoot fine with just a few of the grooves filled with lube that was available to Loverin.

The original multiband bullets had a taper to them so they could be breech seated. The original Loverin designs also have the top 3 or 4 bands tapered to fit the throats of various rifles. It was this fit that has made Loverin's designs so sucessful.

Loverin designs as made by Lyman have not have uniform specs from cherry to cherry, so those can be an issue. Plus some styles of barrel riflings don't like Loverin designs.

I am very partial to Loverin designs, but there other designs that do as well and sometimes better. There is nothing magic about them.

311407 is indeed a true Loverin design. Folks were asking for a flat nose bullet to use in tubular magazine rifles. Loverin just took 5 grains off of his 311467 to form a flat and that is all there is to it.

Current after market versions of 311407 are similiar to the original Loverin/Lyman version, but are one band shorter and the top two bands are no tapered but small enough to engrave and ride the lands. This has proven to be a good bullet in many 30 caliber rifles.

[Ben]

I was hoping to learn more about Loverin style boolits.

Its not a current popular offering - at least based on the mould tables.

But when they come up for sale they sell quickly. So what is their nitch? Is it for paper patching? Or for plain base non GC shooting? Or something else?

Please enlighten me.

Paul in WNY
_______________________

What are they for ?

They are for doing this kind of thing..........

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/88.jpg

[Artful]

:awesome:

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Once you try a Loverin or Loverin style you will look for more of 'em

[pdawg_shooter]

They are the easiest bullet to get to shoot I have tried in 40+ years of casting. As for paper patching, sized to bore diameter +.001/.0015 they make the perfect bullet.

[kbstenberg]

With all of the small bands like Lee tl bullets. Is there a problem with fillout? Must the molds run hotter to get clean edges?
Kevin

[Char-Gar]

I have not found Loverin bullets are harder to cast than any other style. Note: I have never cast or used the Lee tumble lube bullets, nor do I have any intention of doing so. Therefore, I can't make a comparison.

[runfiverun]

they are far superior to the t/l design.
and more flexible.
you don't have to fill all the lube grooves.
they are really good at filling long tapered throats or seating deep in a long neck and mimicking a slightly tapered throat.
not the best in everything but you'll know what they are for when you need one.

[HARRYMPOPE]

char-gar's post is right on IMHO

I find two diameter or tapered bullets (SAECO #315 for example) much more accurate on average.As much as they are a greatly revered bullet they are not typically seen winning registered cast bullet matches.I do own and like a few of his designs but find nothing magic about them.

George

[Jack Stanley]

I've used the hundred fifty five grain in a thirty caliber for years . It used to be I'd shoot it for higher velocity and easy to get an accurate load . I found I can size the bottom two rings in my star sizer and shoot it without gas checks and it works good at that too . Though I keep the powder charge and velocity way down , almost subsonic .

I think I read where the 225462 is a loverin design as well ? It shoots good almost anyway I send it down range .

Jack

[Char-Gar]

A true nose rider (two diameter) bullet will shoot rings around any other design..IF..IF the nose is properly supported by the top of the lands. If, not the nose will slump and accuracy will go out the window. Many folks who shoot these bullets do not have a good fit between the bullet body, nose and barrel, so they tend to favor other designs.

The original Barlow designs (311291, 311284 etc.) were also two diamter bullets, but the body and the nose were about 50/50. With this much body support, the nose could be a smidge smaller than true land diameter and still get acceptable accuracy. Acceptable, but not outstanding. If the body and nose fits well, these bullets will give sterling accuracy.

The Loverin designs do not depend on nose fit to shoot well. Their long bodies and short throat filling nose will often give good results in most any barrel. They are a very flexible design. This is why folks have such good results. They are a very forgiving bullets.

If a man has a mold and rifle where the nose rider bullets will fit, he will shoot small groups, kill game and win matches.

As always with cast bullet, fit is the key (plus proper alloy, quality casting, right powder and charge). Some bullets make this easier than others and the Loverin is probably one of the easiest.

In 1965, I bought a Lyman U311467 mould. When cast of lintotype the bullets drop at .3095. In a rifle with a worn throat or long throat, they can be shot as cast. If the throat is short of unworn, I size the top two or three bands .301 to enter the barrel. These bullets will shoot in any and every 30 caliber rifle I have tried and I have tried a bunch.

[HARRYMPOPE]

yup and many of the early 2 diameters in 30 caliber had nosed well under .300 and if short bodied and driven much over 1300 wouldn't shoot.I have taken a couple of Lyman with .297 noses and had .302 dia "DD" rings added to the nose and they they shot very well with he added nose support.

On the 311466-
I have had quite a few of them(10 or more) and the later ones that are full cylinders (as compared to the proper ones with the two ft bands reduced in dia) do not shoot well until i taper the front bands down.As much as i seem to be badmouthing the Loverin's one of my "go-to" molds is a Lyman 4 cavity 311466.I wouldn't use it in a match but it shoots well enough in a variety of guns.

George

[Larry Gibson]

I also use numerous Loverin designs in calibers from .225 up to 8mm. I find them exceedingly accurate IF the GC , or at least the top of the GC, is kept in the case neck. With short necked cartridges I also size the front driving band to bore diameter so the GC stays in the case neck. In long necked cartridges or with milsurps having long throats the Loverins generally give a perfect fit in the long throats. The very well supported long bearing surfaces keep the bullet concentric and spported during the violent 1st part of accelleration and transition of the cast bullet from cast to bore. All that spells accuracy, especially at higher velocity.

As with HARRYPOPE my "go to" .30/.31 call bullets for best accuracy in SSs and bolt guns are a 311466 and the 311466U.

Larry Gibson