Need car advise

[waksupi]

A lady friend is looking to buy an older commuter car or pickup. She has around $5000 to spend. It has to have front wheel drive, or four wheel drive, for the ice and snow. Also needed, and very important is good gas mileage.
I know didley squat about vehicles, but I know there are some real experts here. What should she be looking for?

[Finster101]

A Ford Ranger or Chevy S-10 in 4x4 can usually be found reasonable. They are easy to work on and parts are everywhere including junkyards.

[NSP64]

I have a Hyundai and have never had problems with it. GF has a Toyota corolla and it has been great for her.

[WILCO]

http://www.usedautoforsales.com/browse/california/Us_visalia/jeep/grand_cherokee/2001-Jeep-Grand-Cherokee-Laredo-4x4----5000--Visalia--l98337.html

[HATCH]

Good mpg and 4wd pickup doesnt mix.

You could look for a mid-2000 (05,06,07) toyota corolla.
Gets in the 30s mpg.
Should be able to get a 70k mile for around that kind of money.
They last a long time. Its a small car but you dont have a lot of options

You could also look at late 90s jeep cherokees. They will get about 20mpg on the hwy but they r 4wd and the inline 6s last forever

sent from my mobile

[felix]

As ALWAYS, Ric, pick out her future mechanic for her. Let him have the final say on which particular/actual car/truck/jeep he will upkeep for her. ... felix

[koehn,jim]

Instead of buying somebody elses problems consider a lease. She would always have a new car and no worries about repairs. There are a lot of cheap deals on lease cars.

[Pb2au]

Consider an older <2003 VW TDI. My 1998 Jetta is getting 48mpg, 220,000 miles and still going strong. Front wheel drive, good traction in the snow. My suggestion is to get one with the five speed manual.
Most TDI Volksy's with normal maintenance will live to 400,000 plus miles. That is no exaggeration. Then big thing to watch on them is the timing belt. When it is at the milage to change it, do it. Like a lot of newer engines, the TDI is an interference engine. That is to say, if the crank and cam go out of time, the valves will hit the pistons. That equals expensive noises. So if you look at one and the owner cannot definitively prove on paper when it was changed, for safety your first trip is to a GOOD TDI Volkswagen mechanic, not Bubba the diesel tractor mechanic, and get the timing belt, tensioner,and if applicable, the water pump swapped out.
The best side is great mileage, the engine and trans will last forever, excellent reliability, 10,000 miles between oil changes. Plus you will always get some joker yelling at you at the filling station when they see you putting diesel in the car. My wife has an 2005 beetle diesel and gets lots of "help" at the filling station.
I hope this helps.

[1874Sharps]

I do not think your lady friend could go wrong with a Toyota Camry or Corolla. A Subaru would be my next choice.

[opos]

I have a buddy with 2 Ford Ranger pickups in his family...both lost transmissions at about 70-80K miles...neither is a kid's car and not abused...not 4 wheeled or off roaded....I think the repairs were over $3K each for the trans work....just my 2 cents...I drive a big block 4wd Suburban that gets 8 mpg so that's not an option...just rolled 200 K and still going strong on orig engine and trans and probaly will for a long time to come...

[Kraschenbirn]

I've got a 2002 Ford Focus ZTW (station wagon) with the 2.0L 16-valve 4-cyl. motor that I've driven a bit over 100K mi, since I bought it used in 2004. Outside of normal maintenance items...tires, brakes, shocks, serpentine belt, battery, etc...the only major mechanical repairs have been a new alternator ($325) and replacement of a transmission solenoid/servo set ($450 - which included drain/flush, complete gasket set, and new internal filter). Gas mileage runs 28-30 and, after 138K mi, body has no rust and all accessories (a/c, cruise control, radio, power windows/door locks, etc.) still work just fine.

I bought the wagon 'cause I need the extra room to carry survey gear for my consulting jobs but for just commuting, I'd think either a 3-door or 5-door hatchback should suffice nicely...and get better mileage, too. btw...this Focus replaced an old Ford Escort wagon that had almost 200k on the clock when a broken exhaust valve turned the motor into a (large!) boat anchor.

Bill

[clodhopper]

I'm real happy with a 95 saturn bought several years back with 80k miles on it, still running now. Real close to 200k miles.
37 miles to the gallon on the highway with the SW2 model and stick shift.
The motor is 1.9 liters of FIRE BREATHING DRAGON.
Mileage somewhat decreased when the dragon is called forth.
Toyota's are good too! (says the guy who owns several hundred shares, that being me.)

[autofix4u]

I would look for a Toyota Camry, 1992-98 or 2000-04. Only with 4 cyl engine. The 1999 engine has a weak connecting rod on cyl 2-3. We have 3, 2 95s with over 300k and a 96 that only has 100k.
Any of these can be found in that price range and get 28+ mpg. If you dont know the maint hist for sure, put ina new timing belt H20 pump and cam/crank seals. Also the oil pump seals.

[runfiverun]

in the 5k range i'd seriously look at a subaru.
especially for the awd capabilitys and the mileage aspect.

i had a 95 contour that was front wheel drive and 4 door i really liked it
so much so i put a body kit on it and a turbo charger.
the 24 valve v-6 was peppy and got over 30 mpg.
the tires were a bit pricey for it though.
but it was pretty easy to work on, front wheel drive,and pretty easy to handle on the snow and such, good brakes and 5 speed stick .
plus it was fairly comfortable to drive the 3 hrs to wyoming and back.
could make the trip much shorter if necessary :lol:

[waksupi]

Keep 'em coming!

[MtGun44]

My 2001 Honda Accord has 330,000 miles and has only had a new catalyst and two
O2 sensors plus normal tires, belts, oil changes, etc. until recently when it had an
AC problem at 315K miles. Original exhaust except catalyst, original brakes on the
rear, several sets of pads (only) on the front, original clutch, original alternator. Zero rust.
Uses a quart of oil every 3000 miles - basically at the oil change it is one quart low.

It will make 31 mpg on the highway at 75-80 mph, and more if you slow it down a touch.
In the higher altitude areas of Colorado and Wyoming (6000 ft and up) it will make 34 mpg.
About 27-28 in town driving. Front wheel drive, real decent in snow if you have good
tires and know a bit what you are doing. Quiet, comfortable, really good handling car. If
you buy one with less than 200K and a manual tranny, it will very unlikely need any work
for a while. Not familiar with auto tranny durability, seems like most of the time they are not as
long lasting, but don't really know with Accords.

Bill

[cajun shooter]

I would advise her to go to the local shops and seek out a mechanic that does actual work on the cars or trucks that you are interested in.
When I first came home from the military in 1968 I went to school for automotive mechanics and worked for several dealerships. These guys will know more than any week end oil change hobbyist.
Stay away from the lease cars as was posted by one member. The miles over the contract can cost a small fortune and any damage that is done, even when repaired will cause a surcharge at the end. You also pay for a vehicle for three years and walk away with no equity.
It equates to the same as renting a home for 10 years; all for naught.
I have owned 4 wheel drives all my life because of my lifestyle. They don't have what is known as great MPG when talking trucks. My current GMC Diesel gets 20 MPG when in 2 WD with a light foot. Four WD puts the figures down into the 10-12 area.
Maybe one of the older cars with the awd if they have better track record; research consumer reports on any vehicle before buying as the repair bills are higher when service is needed.

[Wayne Smith]

Carefully consider the need for a PU. That is miles away from a commuter car. If a commuter car is what is needed I would also suggest a Subaru. Repairs tend to be expensive but infrequent because of the quality. Had two of them when the boys were small. Then they had a Stainless exhaust system. Lasts a long time, but expensive to replace. The AWD of the Subaru does reduce mileage. I'm here in Hampton Roads but have driven FWD cars in New Hampshire. That's where we had the Subaru's. Not AWD. Now I drive a Honda Fit because I get 30+mpg around town and 37mpg on the road an there is room for my rifle cases. It is a light car, I have no idea how it would handle snow.

I drove a rear wheel drive PU in New Hampshire and had no problem as long as I used studded snow tires and some weight in the back. The secret is to put it in second and don't take it out when in snow or ice. You don't have enough torque to spin the tires and if you are going faster than you should in second you are going too fast for conditions! Wasn't casting then, now it would be a great place to store some lead!

[garym1a2]

Toyota Matrix, my 2009 with the 1.8l gets 30-32mpg all time. With 107K miles on it I have been to shop ZERO times for repair. Just brake pads, batteries, filters and oil changes that I did myself. The plugs are even located so that I can change them myself. Its a can that is designed to be easy to maintain, it even has good traction for sandy dirt roads.

[1874Sharps]

I bought my 2000 Toyota Camry new and now have 216,000 miles on it and it is still running great. It has only required normal maintenance and still gets great mileage. When it did need some warranty work, Toyota was more than fair and delivered great service. Toyota lays things out under the hood in a logical and easy-to-work-on fashion that has also endeared me to them. I cannot say enough good things about them!

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Get her a horse

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Chevy Impala , when we have a family gathering it is like an Impala rally , mom and dad each have one , we have one , grandma , aunts and uncles have them , they have been very good cars just regular maintenance dads is a 2001 , ours is a 2006 and moms a 2007 , i think grandmas is a 2005

our city uses them as patrol cars

just took a weekend trip 350 miles and averaged 29.0 mpg with my in town and highway driving

[popper]

Scion 'B', the uggh. More room than the Rav 4, reasonable ground clearance, good quality. No I don't have 1. Wife has a nephew with one. Neither he nor his wife have a clue about much of anything and it still runs good and works. He drove it from Dallas through an east Texas ice/snow storm on the way to Magnolia, Ar. a few years ago, no problem. 7 hr. 200 mi. trip. Yes, we get nasty weather here too. Biggest prob. with a 'commuter' is maintenance and 'tow-ins'. How long does she intend to keep it

[BD]

In real snow country go for the Subaru. Farther south the VW diesel, Honda Accord or Toyota Camry, depending on what can be serviced locally.

[gbrown]

I'd cast my vote for a Toyota. I've owned 2 Toyota Camry's--2001 and a 2011. Only reason I have a 2011 and not the 2001 is that some drug head took a turn at an unbelievable speed and flattened all 4 tires on his car. In the process, put my wife into the columns of an overpass and totalled the 2001. That Toyota had 200,000 miles on it and never was a problem as far as cost. Oil change, radiator and transmission flush, brakes, spark plugs, etc. Normal maintenance, that's all. My 92 Tercel had 220,000 miles on it when I sold it to a friend of the wife's in 2003. 2 years ago, it was still going around town. My Tacoma Pre-runner 2 WD has 155,000 on it and runs as strong as ever. Again, regular maintenance, nothing major. As far as snow and ice, we don't have it here, except every 100 blue moons. But, I have lived and driven in it. 2 WD, 4 WD, 6 WD, 32 WD, it don't matter. On ice, no chains, no traction, period. My Camry's were both made in Kentucky. The Tacoma in San Diego. I think they're made in San Antonio now. A dealer told me that they had added a Tacoma line to the Tundra plant opened there a couple of years ago. Buy American? Look at this link.

http://autos.aol.com/article/is-your-car-really-american/

[EDK]

I bought a 2006 Chevrolet IMPALA in April '06. 7 trips from Saint Looie to Forsyth MT for the Quigley shoot, 2 trips to Atlanta area, AND 400 miles per week to work. I've got 192,000 miles on it and minimal repairs...it could stand a tune-up and a few other minor items. 25MPG local; 30MPG mixed; 33MPG+ on road trips.

I'd buy another one in a heart beat. New ones have the extended warranties and finance rates are low. Any trouble, you get out the phone and they fix it on their dime. What you spend on the car payment is less than any major repairs. A used vehicle MAY be buying someone else's troubles. In this bad economy, the kind of car your friend wants is not going to be for sale used...why would you want to get rid of something economical and reliable.

Get a new one, do the maintenance schedule as required, and drive the damn thing until it starts requiring repairs. (Gas was $3.69 in my area today.)

:redneck: :cbpour:

[fecmech]

I will echo other posters with Corrola,Camry,Honda Accord front wheel drive 4 cylinders. Excellent mileage and reliability. Also 4 wheel drive is not your friend when it comes to mileage. I have been driving in the Buffalo NY area all my life have never missed work or late to work because of weather and never owned a 4 WD vehicle. A good set of tires is way more important than 2 more drive wheels!

[MBTcustom]

The 1996 Toyota Camry was the best car ever made. My siblings have owned half a dozen of them over the years and they are good for 200,000 miles on a bad day. You can drive them till the wheels fall off.
As for me, I bought my wife a 2007 Toyota Yaris 4 door, because it was the best I could afford at the time. Later I found out how many reliability awards that car won. I was in Oklahoma a couple years ago when it came a hard snow. I decided to go have some fun in our little car (I swear it handles like a go-cart!) Anyway, I was pushing snow drifts so large that they were coming over the hood. (I cracked a piece of trim off the bumper doing that) I had so much control on the ice covered walmart parking lot, that I spent the better part of an hour putting the car into a spin and recovering. It was almost boring how easy it was to keep the car under control even in the middle of a spin.
Oh, and it gets 35MPG

[Gliden07]

I try to buy American cars, my choice would be a Ford Focus. The 2.0L Zetec motor is reliable and the 2.0L and 2.3L Duratech motor is also reliable. They get decent gas milage are available in 3 door hatch (ZX3), 5 Door wagon, 5 door hatch (ZX5) and 4 door sedan. The car is also available in a performance trim known as the SVT (Standard Shift only though and only prior to 04) its available in a 5 door hatch or 3 door hatch, there is also an ZTS (I think? this is a 4 door sedan) These cars are available in quite a few levels of trim. They are plentiful and cheap to fix (Most of the time) "AND THERE AMERICAN"!!

I'm not knocking Toyotas or Hondas or anything else for that matter. They make good cars too but I prefer to buy American if I can.

[MtGun44]

Honda Accord has more US content, material and labor than the Ford - Canada and Mexico.

Bill

[LAH]

I do not think your lady friend could go wrong with a Toyota Camry or Corolla. A Subaru would be my next choice.


Same here but I put the Subaru first.

[waksupi]

I showed her this thread, and her eyes glazed over! :lol:

What we have learned, is the vehicles that have not been mentioned, she will ignore in her search. New or leasing is totally out of the question, there are different money realities in north west Montana than in most other places. What seems like a secure job one day can be gone the next, so she is going to stay with cash and not go into debt in any way.

[gbrown]

[QUOTE] Gliden07 I try to buy American cars, my choice would be a Ford Focus. The 2.0L Zetec motor is reliable and the 2.0L and 2.3L Duratech motor is also reliable. They get decent gas milage are available in 3 door hatch (ZX3), 5 Door wagon, 5 door hatch (ZX5) and 4 door sedan. The car is also available in a performance trim known as the SVT (Standard Shift only though and only prior to 04) its available in a 5 door hatch or 3 door hatch, there is also an ZTS (I think? this is a 4 door sedan) These cars are available in quite a few levels of trim. They are plentiful and cheap to fix (Most of the time) "AND THERE AMERICAN"!!

You should go back to my post and click on the link. There America--doesn't exist. Also, Ford, GM and Chrysler have all been involved in foreign deals with Opel, Jaguar, Daimler-Benz, Toyota, Mazda and probably more. All you got to do is research the internet. Where does the steel, wiring, radios, computer chips, etc. come from? 90% of it is China. Buy American? I don't think so. By the way, the Duratech and Zetec motors are built in Chihuahua, Mexico.

[LAH]

I really liked my Subaru before it was totaled. A good place to read 'bout them is here:
http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Creekerpics/Auto/2000%20Subaru/004-1.jpg

[Blammer]

get a saturn, SW2 if possible.

front wheel drive, automatic, really good in snow, good gas milage, dependable.

[WilliamDahl]

Consider an older <2003 VW TDI. My 1998 Jetta is getting 48mpg, 220,000 miles and still going strong. Front wheel drive, good traction in the snow. My suggestion is to get one with the five speed manual.
Most TDI Volksy's with normal maintenance will live to 400,000 plus miles. That is no exaggeration.

+1 on the VW TDI (diesels) as long as the snow and ice that you are driving on are roads that have been plowed. The ground clearance on any of the small cars is not so great that you would want to drive on an unplowed road in Montana. The fuel economy is great though. If you've got 18" of snow on the road though, you probably want to stay home.

[Gliden07]

Gbrown,

You should go back to my post and click on the link. There America--doesn't exist. Also, Ford, GM and Chrysler have all been involved in foreign deals with Opel, Jaguar, Daimler-Benz, Toyota, Mazda and probably more. All you got to do is research the internet. Where does the steel, wiring, radios, computer chips, etc. come from? 90% of it is China. Buy American? I don't think so. By the way, the Duratech and Zetec motors are built in Chihuahua, Mexico.

Seems you forgot to include this part of my post.

[/QUOTE]I'm not knocking Toyotas or Hondas or anything else for that matter. They make good cars too but I prefer to buy American if I can.[/QUOTE]

And your right about the deals, steel, wiring etc... But what got us there in the first place? People not buying Americain looking to buy the cheapest thing that they can! NAFTA and on and on. I perfer to "TRY TO BUY AMERICAIN" and thats my choice. This post was about suggestions for a good used car I still feel that the Focus is a GOOD USED CAR. And whats wrong with that?

[WilliamDahl]

There is no way that I will ever buy another GM vehicle after they screwed over the investors with their bankruptcy. I had 1000 shares of GM declared basically worthless after their bankruptcy farce.

[gbrown]

Seems you forgot to include this part of my post.

[/QUOTE]I'm not knocking Toyotas or Hondas or anything else for that matter. They make good cars too but I prefer to buy American if I can.[/QUOTE]

And your right about the deals, steel, wiring etc... But what got us there in the first place? People not buying Americain looking to buy the cheapest thing that they can! NAFTA and on and on. I perfer to "TRY TO BUY AMERICAIN" and thats my choice. This post was about suggestions for a good used car I still feel that the Focus is a GOOD USED CAR. And whats wrong with that?[/QUOTE]

Sir: I was not arguing or anything and apologize if you believe I "attacked" you. I was merely stating what's out there and how confusing all of this is. Sometimes I do not make my intenitons clear and use the wrong words.

[waksupi]

Just so you know, she doesn't care where it was made. Just as long as it is dependable and gets good mileage.

[Thumbcocker]

Another vote for Subaru Forester. Ours has 165,000 on it and shows no signs of slacking. Very well thought out vehicles with lots of practical touches. Very solid and sure footed and can haul a surprising amount of stuff. I would buy another one in a heartbeat.

[Gliden07]

Gbrown,

Sir: I was not arguing or anything and apologize if you believe I "attacked" you. I was merely stating what's out there and how confusing all of this is. Sometimes I do not make my intenitons clear and use the wrong words.[/QUOTE]

Not a problem I am guilty of the same thing believe me!! The problem with any of these posts is they have no personality and are very easily misunderstood! I have thicker skin than that LOL!! Everything in this country is very confusing now a days!! I think thats the way the Goverment and Corperations want it!!

[WilliamDahl]

Just so you know, she doesn't care where it was made. Just as long as it is dependable and gets good mileage.

How many miles does she need to be able to drive per year and how deep is the snow that she drives through?

[blackthorn]

A good indication of what make to buy is to look at the numbers of each make on the road as you drive around. Then start looking at the "for sale" adds for the most popular car(s) on the road. The make with the most cars on the road and the least listed for sale is likely the best you are going to do. Around here it appears Toyota would likely win. Not many for sale, keep their value and there are lots of them on the road.

[felix]

Agree. Find the mechanic (dealership) that everyone likes and let him make the final choice for which one out of three individual cars (for example). I am sure Ric already knows several. ... felix

[waksupi]

How many miles does she need to be able to drive per year and how deep is the snow that she drives through?


She deals with around 75 miles one way to work, plus weekends. More icy roads, than deep snow to deal with, although a foot of snow would be easily possible on side roads.

[schutzen]

++ On helping here select a good mechanic 1st. On to our experience, my wife is a retired public health nurse. Her career required her to drive 100-300 miles per week. We chose American vehicles. I will not argue that 50-70 % of American made vehicles parts are made over-seas, but the parts are still cheaper than "foreign made" and “good” mechanics are easier to find. Remember, it does not matter how well made a vehicle is, you will still have maintenance and repairs as an expense.
My wife was one of 15 nurses working from a large district office. We watched how often the others traded vehicles and made our choices by comparing vehicle life spans. We had our best luck with the Ford Taurus. In a 30 year career she used 5 vehicles; a Buick Century (motor died @ 124K), a Chevy Caprice Classic diesel (wiring harness shorted out @ 175K), a 88 Ford Taurus (traded-in at 278K), a 94 Ford Taurus (gave to daughter at 235K, ran another 50K before being wrecked), a 2001 Ford Taurus (given to another daughter at retirement with 225K on engine).
We bought all of these vehicles used with 20k-75k on the engines and had them serviced a local independent mechanic shop. For 2007 (her last working year) her vehicle operating cost was $.42/mile driven. That figured in amortized cost of purchase, all repairs, and all operating expenses (gas, oil, tires, license, and insurance).
Do not forget to look at a vehicles accident record by model. The Ford Taurus has a good crash test rating and its insurance rate is lower than some of the others. This became very important to us when our daughter was T-boned by cell phone distracted driver. Had she been in a smaller vehicle than a Taurus I’m sure she would not have survived the crash.
Good luck with your choice.

[LAH]

Great post Schutzen

[gbrown]

Waksupi: Don't know how much of a "network" either you or your friend have, but consider contacting friends and family about this, if you have not already. A lot of times there are opportunities where someone has an "extra" vehicle, by way of inheritance, chance good purchase, etc. I have seen these come up that are good buys and good vehicles.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I liked Honda's better than Toyotas several years back, but so did everyone else, and the prices reflected it. Now I drive Toyotas simply because I think they are a better deal. Either one should be able to do 200k with few repairs. 250k-300k+ is a real possibility if cared for properly and an expectation of a couple minor repairs or the possibility a major repair here or there.

There are plenty of Volvos and VW TDIs running around out there with a gazillion miles on them, but when they break, it is going to cost.

The only American car we ever had (Ford Taurus) was dismissed at 135K due to mechanical issues and family members/friends have had similar results. Maybe they are better now but it will take nearly 10 years to know for sure. I'd prefer to buy American, but like someone said, most Hondas and Toyotas have more American parts in them than American cars do and I want something that will last.

I never capitalized on it, and the opportunity is pretty much past, but the Chevy Prism was actually a rebadged Corolla that could be had for pocket change because most folks figured it was a GM.

[Pb2au]

"There are plenty of Volvos and VW TDIs running around out there with a gazillion miles on them, but when they break, it is going to cost."

That is a true statement. As much as I love VW TDI's, unless you are handy and know the ins and outs, the repairs can get spendy. I've been lucky being a wrench puller for a lot of years, so it offsets the cost.

[WilliamDahl]

She deals with around 75 miles one way to work, plus weekends. More icy roads, than deep snow to deal with, although a foot of snow would be easily possible on side roads.

For the 75 miles each way, something that gets great fuel economy like the VW TDIs would be great, but once you factor in the foot deep snow, I don't think that any of the small cars would be appropriate. Of course, that would depend upon whether it was 12" of light powder of 12" of heavy wet snow. They put various bodywork pieces on the fronts of cars and those air dams would just end up being a snow plow if the snow were that deep. I would not have any reservations with driving through 12" of snow in a Jeep (I've gone through 18" of snow in a Cherokee with a lift kit on the north rim of the Grand Canyon one winter. I think something with the ground clearance of the 1st generation Subaru Forester would the the minimum that I would consider for 12" of snow. I've never owned a Forester (and probably never will), but from what I've read, they have one of the highest brand loyalty percentages out there. For whatever reason, people who buy them are fairly likely to buy another one when they get ready for another car. I don't particularly like the look of the car, so I would not buy one, but she might be different. If a car can't pull into a parking lot and the front air dam not hit the concrete curbs that they put in front of the parking spots, I would definitely not consider it for a car that is going to be driving through 12" of snow regularly.

[MtGun44]

Check out Consumer Reports record of reliability data. Last time I looked Honda and
Toyota were tops by a large margin.

Bill

[rfp357]

I was a mechanic for 20 years (not for Toyota) and for 18 of those years I drove Toyotas. My first was a pick up and my current is a 4 runner. I think Toyota makes a great car, as do most Asian car companies. I would lean towards an SUV w/ 4 wheel drive and a manual transmission if she can drive stick. A clutch is easier and cheaper to fix than an automatic transmission and the 4 wheel drive trains, in my experience, don't need much attention other than keeping oil in them.