Ammo/component prices

[JudgeBAC]

Holy cow, the prices of all ammo and components have risen about 30-40%. What in the world is going on. Hillary hasn't been elected yet.

[9.3X62AL]

Metals markets took a hint from the oil companies.

[MT Gianni]

Iron and steel have been climbing for the last few years, lead and copper are starting to even up. Gianni

[rmb721]

I don't understand how gas checks can be more than primers, but don't tell the primer companies.

[1Shirt]

Am wondering if because of WWII and the Korean war, there were shortages and that drove up prices? Maybe some of the old time reloaders/casters might remember. Maybe also if this war ends there will be surplus components again. That said, can't help but wonder how much of our scrap metals including brass is going to China. We made that mistake in the late 30's and early 40's, shipping our scrap metals to Japan, and got a pile of it back at Pearl Harbor, and throughout much of the Pacific campaign. Kinda like the old saw, "them that forgets history is doomed to repeat it!"
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Anticipation of potential democrat gun and other mischief in combination with the RED chinese gobbling up basic metal and other resources is providing extraordinary opportunuties for LOTS of volk to make money. Hamburg is up too BTW. BvT

[mike in co]

gentlemen,

china has built one of the largest hydro-electric facilities ever. they are actively moving in to the 21st century. this takes lots of raw materials. copper is just one of those. our cartridge brass is 70/30 copper/tin. if copper prices go up due to demand going up( yep china is one of the big users) then it is what we call supply and demand. it is part of what makes this country what it is.

this is not new, it has been going on for close to a year. there has been a big spike in the last 6 months. bullets i used to buy at wholesale for 15/100 now cost me 25/100. primers have been creeping up ....those are brass cups in the primer. 12.50 /k one yr ago//////18/1k this yr.
its been said before....invest in your sport........stock up well.

i think there is little we can/should do to try to stop a market buyer. we do need to keep our eyes open to what happens around us and to our sport.

( like i just bought 6000 lbs of once fired brass.......for resale!)

[lovedogs]

Yup! I wrote to a fella with Speer not long ago to complain about the price of valu-paks of j-varmint bullets and he gave me all that about metal prices. So I informed him I'd be shooting cast lead at prairie dogs when my j-bullets dry up. And when I run low on lead he better watch his truck so's the wheel weights don't disappear. Of course, I wouldn't steal from anyone but it made my point. Though my point has been made I seriously doubt it'll change anything. We're going down the tubes. Slowly.... but we're going!

[357maximum]

I really do not know what you guys are worried about...someday china will strap some solid fuel boosters to our scrap metals and send it back..free of charge, and we will more than likely be controlled by democrats when it happens...we can sort through the scrap while the dems chat/discuss what went wrong and what happened and what we will not do about it...brushing up on your chinese might not be a bad idea...

[rhead]

The dems will also wish to discuss what it was that we did to make them angry at us and what we should do to make them like us. ( Stop breathing and assume room tempature.)

[Old Ironsights]

As long as components are cheaper than OEM, it's not going to really bother me.

[hydraulic]

When supply shrinks, prices go up. When prices go up, supply increases. When supply increases, prices go down. Economics 101.

[357maximum]

When supply shrinks, prices go up. When prices go up, supply increases. When supply increases, prices go down. Economics 101.

Real close...
When supply shrinks prices go up, when prices go up people buy less, increasing supply. When supply increases manufacturers realize people still bought their product and keep that price at or slightly above where it is,they realize they sell less, but at a higher profit margin...... and there the price stays....at least until it goes up again........... Economics USA....


difference between book learning and real learning...

[Bad Water Bill]

When I ask about rising prices I am told '' there is a war on ''. If this is the reason ( our military needs it ), I would put ALL of my guns away till after things settle down without one wimper. BUT why can I go to any range and on line and find 10k s of de milled or once fired LC- 91 or other headstamp and up to 06 so plentiful that no one wants it. Yes I am OLD enough to remember 1941-1945 shortages of everything. China is buying our scrap and loading it onto ships, going off shore, refining it using cheap labor and no reguard to polution on the high seas then selling it back to us. Also the options market should NOT be allowed to dabble in the raw futures. this is costing us 4 to 5 dollars per bbl on oil and who knows how much on our finished reloading items. WOW I typed all of this. BWB

[TAWILDCATT]

BAD WATER BILL:thats known as giving the suckers a story.oil is traded on stock market so is brass.maybe if we kept it in our own country the price would be down.also shooting for acuracy instead of just banging away would help.some posters say they shoot 500 rds on one day.no one can really learn to shoot that way.I dont remember any shortage for korea or vietnam.but I do remember ww2.course I had no shortage of ammo in ww2,belts and belts of 30s and 50s
modern bond was only tool available.I still have the molds and nutcraker tool.

[Ed Barrett]

When I ask about rising prices I am told '' there is a war on ''. If this is the reason ( our military needs it ), I would put ALL of my guns away till after things settle down without one wimper. BUT why can I go to any range and on line and find 10k s of de milled or once fired LC- 91 or other headstamp and up to 06 so plentiful that no one wants it. Yes I am OLD enough to remember 1941-1945 shortages of everything. China is buying our scrap and loading it onto ships, going off shore, refining it using cheap labor and no reguard to polution on the high seas then selling it back to us. Also the options market should NOT be allowed to dabble in the raw futures. this is costing us 4 to 5 dollars per bbl on oil and who knows how much on our finished reloading items. WOW I typed all of this. BWB

Back when I was in the service in the 60's, we used to surplus out ammo if it was stored out of spec (temp humidity vibration) for periods of time. Also if we couldn't track where or how it had been stored we would mark it for practice use for 6 months then to be suplused. The Armed services wanted any ammo issued to troops in harms way to be the best possible. I think this is why you see fairly new stuff surplused.

[Junior1942]

The dems will also wish to discuss what it was that we did to make them angry at us and what we should do to make them like us. ( Stop breathing and assume room tempature.)Why do you assume that every member of this forum thinks like you think politically? I'm by far not the only Democrat here.

[Scrounger]

But probably the bravest. Why not forget labels, guys? We probably cover the whole spectrum of opinions here, hopefully the majority is right in the middle but I doubt that. Anyone, at either end, who thinks their party is 100% right and pure, is not thinking for himself or looking at reality. Just a parrot.

[9.3X62AL]

This kind of thing is why POLITICS is not "cricket" for discussion here. It gets difficult to separate gun rights issues from politics--but let's be mindful that Deep South Demos and California Demos can be horses of very differing colors.

[monadnock#5]

On topic: there's an end of the world scenario coming up. The Mayan Calendar, I Ching, a web-bot program originally designed to spot stock trends, all supposedly point to the Winter Solstice 2012 as the end of days. There was a program on the History channel covering this topic recently. I have no idea what it all means, but I have no intentions of quitting my job and moving to Nepal. I do believe that there will be increased anxiety and hand wringing in the next 5 years that will make Y2K and Millennium fever pale by comparison. I think component prices will increase steadily in the near term.

On politics: Democrats ran a commercial back when Pres. Reagan was in office saying that if the only issue one cared about was abortion rights, that one should feel free to vote based on that one issue only. I took that as tacit permission to vote solely on the issue I care about the most, gun rights. And so I feel compelled to vote Republican. When and if the Democrats get their act together, and walk the walk, as well as talk the talk, I will happily switch parties, or split my ticket accordingly.

Ken

[carpetman]

Those rotten democrats are going to drive the prices up on components. About the time GWB gets gas ,plywood and you name it down to dirt cheap like it is the democrats come mess things up. What a shame they can't grant GWB Sainthood( he already thinks he is)and let him serve past 8 years. Heck his 28% approval rating only confirms that 72% are wrong.

[357maximum]

This kind of thing is why POLITICS is not "cricket" for discussion here. It gets difficult to separate gun rights issues from politics--but let's be mindful that Deep South Demos and California Demos can be horses of very differing colors.

You all catch that? were you paying attention? that was Al trying to single handedly stop a multi car pile-up.....good form

too bad no-one was paying attention apparently...

[Scrounger]

When was the last time a "Democrat" started a "political" thread here? Like never. But any number of posts can be made praising Saint George or accusing the Democrats without any attempts to shush them by the powers that be. It's only when the "other side" starts shooting back that anyone wants to shut it down. Moral questions aside, do they think their side is under-gunned in a battle of wits? Sure looks that way.

[357maximum]

When was the last time a "Democrat" started a "political" thread here? Like never. But any number of posts can be made praising Saint George or accusing the Democrats without any attempts to shush them by the powers that be. It's only when the "other side" starts shooting back that anyone wants to shut it down. Moral questions aside, do they think their side is under-gunned in a battle of wits? Sure looks that way.

:mrgreen: I smile alot, I ain't hiding nothing either.....but, I'll take a stab at answering this one


I would guess it is just a pure expression of the numbers as to why there are more "slips" by republicans....as far as gun owners go.......the majority are republicans so the odds say if there are more republican members of this site than there are democrauts, and if everyone slips up at the same percentage rate the republicans will slip up more often, there are more of them here....simple percentages really.


You cannot ever get rid of political issues totally here, not when one side is more anti gun than the other, and I would hazard to guess a few people here own a gun or two ............they have an investment to protect, and some are more willing to speak out and protect that right than some others are......it is going to happen

[Scrounger]

This political stuff is pointless, boring as Hell, and against the rules here. I propose management states clearly a rule against it and a 7 day banishment for breaking the rule. AND ENFORCE IT! Allowing one side to do it at will and only stepping in when the other side fights back is not acceptable.

[357maximum]

Terms of Service

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Could you point out your point please...serious request


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Humor and Off Topic (5 Viewing)
No Sex,Religion or Politics Allowed. No personal attacks,Keep it Clean and remember,this is not the cracker barrel. Please review our TOS.
I see what you speak of for this page:


But not in the TOS....did I miss something?

[waksupi]

Terms of Service


Could you point out your point please...serious request


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Humor and Off Topic (5 Viewing)
No Sex,Religion or Politics Allowed. No personal attacks,Keep it Clean and remember,this is not the cracker barrel. Please review our TOS.
I see what you speak of for this page:


But not in the TOS....did I miss something?

The paragraph above is part of the TOS, by it's presence on the topic heading.

[carpetman]

Scrounger---Surely you are not saying that Hillary,Bill and Chelsea can be bashed anyway possible,even profainly and that is ok, but GWB bashing of any sort totally against the rules and must be controlled. Nah you can't be saying that.

[waksupi]

Ok, I guess what I personally will be doing, is try to delete any political postings. I can't see where anyone can support either of the major parties. We're coming into a long election cycle, and we don't need this stuff here.

The line is drawn.

[45nut]

Well,, Al made a point earlier this week reminding us of the differences between Democrats and Democrats,, and I will add there is certainly a equal portion of repub's out there that do their best to work against our liberty and freedoms.

A "two party" system leads us to think there are clear choices between right and wrong when usually it's the lesser of the two evils. That simple analogy has lead us into the chasm of fixating on seeing both parties on a rather bitter scale.
Entering into debate over whether something is agreeable to us all cannot be settled with such polar positions and yet....we enter into those debates fiercely and determined to have our say.
With the current administration treading head on toward a idea of "Global Utopia" bereft of conscience for what our founding fathers wrote as guidance it is increasingly difficult to distinguish between any of them as "For the People".
We all have lost freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is in greater peril than ever and both parties have aided and abetted in the losses and restrictions.
Driving blindly,, following the herds and accepting the party line for each of us is allowing the country to be heading on the path of Rome, extinction.

Since the majority on the perceived "right side" of gun rights are the gop that is where most of us see the "right side", certainly there are democrats on our side and that is clear. I know that both sides have worked for us,,as well as against us.

If you can read all of that you can see why we continue to have discussions here despite the "rules", we do tend to have opinions and right or wrong generally we want our say. We want to be heard. And yet convincing members here does nothing to change the tides or the winds. It commonly serves only to drive wedges between us when we are all here to share in a bond that is Cast Boolits, the practical application and exploration of making ww's into projectiles and the related topics we have all made the reason to stop here.
If this was a political discussion forum I venture few of us would have met.
What we do share is what we should focus on, since word filters and censorship can only serve to inflame more of us we ask everyone to self-moderate and for the most part it works, quite well.
Yes, there will be times posts are overlooked, skipped either consciously or un- consciously and being quite human myself it is likely to happen again.
All we can do it try not to be too rigid and accept off-topic posts as not a personal attack as we strive to stay on the topics that do reflect the Silver Stream.

I value the different outlooks and varied thoughts that serve us all but cringe when I see threads that threaten to divide us along political lines, that is why the request is up there to dissuade such topics and posts.
We have much more to share and are much better served when we stay away from the topics that have started wars all through history and worldwide.

Agreed?

[Scrounger]

A well thought out and excellent post, Ken. As far as the Forum, there are two ways we could go on this.

1. Leave things as they are now and just let the opposing proponents beat each other to exhaustion with their keyboards. The lack of interest they generate in most people would insure they would die out soon enough. I find a lot of the posts here on various topics of no interest to me at all and I just skip over them without reading them. I'm sure most of you do that as well. My tendency to get involved in the politics stems from the thought that the whole subject is supposed to be taboo here and should never have been brought up in the first place. I don't like either political side and anyone who blindly votes either Party's line because of the gun issue, or abortion or any other single issue without looking at the overall situation is too dumb to be allowed to vote, in my opinion.

2. Create a new forum for politics, where any member can post all the political garbage he wants. And those who want to rebut can do so without interference. But I beg you to tweak the software here to allow any member to block all the posts from that thread from his computer. I guarantee you that is what I would do and I think there are many others who would do the same.

[45nut]

A third option:

http://www.politicsforumpoliticalworld.com/ (not endorsed or affiliated in any way by me,just a google search result )

I have no intentions of opening a political forum here, that simply would serve to divide us and that would be counter to the aim here.
CB is meant to draw us together, I much prefer to remain friends with all of you and would gladly share a cup of coffee and a box of ammo with yourself, Junior or Ray or any other democrat here because it is CB's that drew us together. None of us would be better off opening a pandora's box in such close company. When we get together for NCBS or similar gatherings politics are easily overlooked because we share so many other topics and interests.
Software alone is no answer, and getting the settings right if such existed would be constantly evolving due to the names and players shuffled in and out.
All we can ask is self moderation in the best interest of us all as devotees of the Cast Boolit.

[9.3X62AL]

Art--I don't want boilerplate legalities spelled out Chapter and Verse, and I don't think they are needed here. Ken asked that political discussions be avoided, and out of courtesy I try to do so with my own posts. Legislation and regulation are the fall-back positions when common courtesy fails, and I would submit that there are more than enough of those default settings in our lives already.

In terms of moderation, we are probably more indulgent than most bulletin boards--but you will recall from the past that admin has been accused of stifling freedom of speech--with sufficient vigor that legal counsel was consulted. So, we are left scratching our heads as how to best serve our membership.

I strongly suggest that we discontinue the Demo/Repub clashing herein. For my own part, I wonder why I even vote--it just encourages the bas----s.

[357maximum]

Well,, Al made a point earlier this week reminding us of the differences between Democrats and Democrats,, and I will add there is certainly a equal portion of repub's out there that do their best to work against our liberty and freedoms.

A "two party" system leads us to think there are clear choices between right and wrong when usually it's the lesser of the two evils. That simple analogy has lead us into the chasm of fixating on seeing both parties on a rather bitter scale.
Entering into debate over whether something is agreeable to us all cannot be settled with such polar positions and yet....we enter into those debates fiercely and determined to have our say.
With the current administration treading head on toward a idea of "Global Utopia" bereft of conscience for what our founding fathers wrote as guidance it is increasingly difficult to distinguish between any of them as "For the People".
We all have lost freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is in greater peril than ever and both parties have aided and abetted in the losses and restrictions.
Driving blindly,, following the herds and accepting the party line for each of us is allowing the country to be heading on the path of Rome, extinction.

Since the majority on the perceived "right side" of gun rights are the gop that is where most of us see the "right side", certainly there are democrats on our side and that is clear. I know that both sides have worked for us,,as well as against us.

If you can read all of that you can see why we continue to have discussions here despite the "rules", we do tend to have opinions and right or wrong generally we want our say. We want to be heard. And yet convincing members here does nothing to change the tides or the winds. It commonly serves only to drive wedges between us when we are all here to share in a bond that is Cast Boolits, the practical application and exploration of making ww's into projectiles and the related topics we have all made the reason to stop here.
If this was a political discussion forum I venture few of us would have met.
What we do share is what we should focus on, since word filters and censorship can only serve to inflame more of us we ask everyone to self-moderate and for the most part it works, quite well.
Yes, there will be times posts are overlooked, skipped either consciously or un- consciously and being quite human myself it is likely to happen again.
All we can do it try not to be too rigid and accept off-topic posts as not a personal attack as we strive to stay on the topics that do reflect the Silver Stream.

I value the different outlooks and varied thoughts that serve us all but cringe when I see threads that threaten to divide us along political lines, that is why the request is up there to dissuade such topics and posts.
We have much more to share and are much better served when we stay away from the topics that have started wars all through history and worldwide.

Agreed?



Excellent and profound expression of how I thought we all felt... I saw a chance to fight the ridgity that you speak of and I jumped on it...I aplogize to YOU if I caused undue grief to YOU. If someone else got a tight forehead about it not so much.


now as far as scroungers post...his option #2 point has alot of validity....some people like to discuss such stuff while talking guns/boolits...his option #2 is worth thinking about, and would stop some festered pimple from showing up elswhere on the board....

[Scrounger]

Al, common courtesy always fails, because it isn't common, it is a rare commodity indeed. That's why society has cops and armies. This group of posters, and I don't exclude myself, has all the virtues, and faults, inherent in society in general. We need someone to keep us in line or we become a mob.

[357maximum]

I would like to propose that everyone go get some of their favorite beverage then go rent Shaun of the Dead,Super troopers, *******2 or some other stupid funny movie that requires very few braincells firing and sit back, laugh, and relax this weekend.

If the mood strikes you and you do not see our armed servicemen and women as stormtroopers trying to take over the world and you feel the need to remember what this weekend is about in the first place, go visit past/fallen/current defenders of freedom or attend a parade in honor of these fine folks. Without them we could not freely argue about stuff we cannot really control in the first place.

[monadnock#5]

Yes Art, I am a single issue voter, and was doing so long before the NRA told me it was OK. Just where that places me on the IQ scale I don't know. I gave up my quest to achieve World's Smartest Human status the day I got married.

I know political discussion isn't kosher with the management here, but I saw these discussions as more fun than an episode of the McLaughlin Group.

Ray, Art, if you can get ahold of Zell Miller, come on up this way. We can go shooting and I'll supply the ammo. IIRC it was Zell who pined for the old days, when he could duel Chris Matthews. That's one politician I could be friends with.

Deputy Al, mea culpa, and my apologies, and a happy belated birthday wish.

45nut, you could make this a lot easier, at least for me, by putting up a thread just for political expression. I could then put the whole damn thing on my ignore list.

Ken

[Scrounger]

At least we agree on the need for a devoted political thread so we could put it on our 'Ignore List'.

[Fireball 57]

Ammo prices have always been related to socioeconomic sensibilities. I learned a long time ago, before the Clinton regime, "Buy Quanity, store for a rainy day!" So the old and time honored question, that is asked at least five hundred times a day, "Is it cheaper to reload or just buy cheap?" does not apply in my world. I still have three hundred pounds of linotype, bought at twenty-three cents a pound. Salutations and regards to all!

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Liberals, aka Democrats still believe that it is possible to pick up a turd by the clean end...that's their problem. That and a refusal to believe in good & evil.

Rich
DRSS