question on paperpatching to idahoron

[johnson1942]

i apologise if all the info i need is already available by you. what is the diam of both bullets post wrapped and post sized. also what is the top of the lands size, bore size, of the two guns for these two bullets. do they go down hard? how deep are the grooves in these 2 guns. aparently you patch dry which i think is easier also? do you lube the paper or just use a grease cookie. all ive ever tried paper patch bullets on are shallow grooves to great succes. i have a barrel that is 1-28 twist and 5 thousands deep grooves. i want to save countless hours on finding a way to paper patch for this barrel and i think you have the knowledge. thank you so much before hand, johnson1942

[idahoron]

The 500 S&W bullets are pouring out at .499 average. After wrapping they are .506
The 11 mm RCBS is .447 average and after patching it is they are .454

500 S&W after sizing to .501 they are .500
the 11 mm bullets are sized to .446 and they are .446

The 50 cal Green Mountain is .502 and .508

The Green Mounting 45 is a .445 and .451

THe 11 mm bullets go down very easy. The weight of the brass range rod will take it all the way down on a clean barrel. After that it is a little tougher but not a lot.

The 50 is a tight fit on a clean barrel. The measurements don't show that but they are not easy to get down. The first one goes down very snug. The ones after that are going to need a short starter. I used to use lube on the paper but the lube will cause the paper to fail and push through the bottom. I don't lube the paper any more when I size. I size them dry and load dry. I don't use a grease cookie. I use a over powder wad with a little lube on it.

I have tried this bullet is a lot of green mountain barrels and I have sent them to other guys with knights and CVA's. They shoot great out of all the guns I have seen them go down the barrel. ROn

[johnson1942]

thank you very much for the details. i see your barrels are shallow groove also. how ever the bullets you gave to shooters with inlines show that your bullets also work in barrels that are 5 thousands deep in the grooves because that is what most inlines are. im going to keep working with my barrel that is 5 thousands deep in the grooves to see if i can get perfect accracy out of it. again thank you, every one else who reads your reply can glean info. from it. johnson1942

[horsesoldier]

Keep it up! After this hunting season thats where I am heading with my 54

[newton]

The dimensions do interest me each time I think about them. How a boolit sized to .500" fits snug down a .502" land-land barrel is interesting. The paper must expand a little or something.

I am not sure if I have asked this before, but did you ever try the boolits plain? I'm curious because 50-70 and 50-90 rifles are not always paper patched yet they shoot very good. Is the paper patch a thing that helps with loading?

[johnson1942]

to newton : i wish i knew the reason also however my .45 which is .450 and my patched bullet is .4485 fit just perfect. i believe their is a lot of drag from the paper. this drag is good as it helps the bullet bite in when bumped up. the reason for paper patch is reliability, accracy and you can pump up the volume. i shoot 110 grains behind a 400 450 and 500 grain bullets, i could never do that in my gun if it was a cast bullet. i would keep the charge 70 or 80 grains at the most if they were cast and not patched. if i was to shoot 550 grains in a bullet i would have no problem use 125 to 130 2f behind the bullet. idahoron please give us your opinion on newtons question.

[newton]

Johnson,

I see what your saying about pumping up the volume with the paper patched boolits. That is my understanding of them from a center fire rifle point of view. In fact, it is the #1 way to get higher velocity from center fire rifle. However, it is my understanding that it is mainly for gas cutting purposes. I could be wrong. I figure that a good fiber wad under the boolit would do the same.

I guess I could see it helping in the friction upon firing. It is all very interesting to me. I guess one just has to try things to fully grasp what all goes on.

[wgr]

the paper patch allows you to shoot soft lead without leading the barrel.

[newton]

the paper patch allows you to shoot soft lead without leading the barrel.

I understand that it is true in the modern cartridge. And so maybe because of the boolit being a modern design and not one for BP, it might have a tendency to lead the barrel? I guess I can buy that for a pretty explanation.

[idahoron]

Well you don't just protect the barrel. You are also protecting the bullet from the flame and the barrel. Conicals like the Lymans and Hornadys will also leave lead in the barrel. By Paper Patching you insure consistency in your loads. I could not go back now after seeing the improvement that the Paper Patch has made in my shooting. Ron