Backup Deer Handgun

[DonMountain]

This year here in Missouri we are allowed to use a centerfire handgun during our "alternate deer" season, which used to be black powder muzzleloader season. I plan to hunt with a .44 Mag in a Ruger Redhawk as my only weapon, and my 18 year old grandson is going to use a muzzleloading rifle, but wants to carry a handgun as a backup or to shoot a deer with if it walks under his deer stand. His choices are: S&W army revolver in .45 ACP, old English military revolver in .38 S&W, and 9mm. :popcorn:

[knifemaker]

Have him use the 45ACP revolver loaded with 185-200 gr. hollowpoints. Far better then the other two choices. The 38 S&W round has less energy then the 38 special.

[35remington]

Of those three, the revolver in 45 ACP.

Since autoloaders have unsupported brass in the chamber, yet are still allowed +P loads, and revolvers offer a fully supported case, anything suitable for the autoloader is suitable for a revolver in at least reasonably good condition.

For the typical broadside lung shot, I'd suggest a 185 grain HP at about 1150 fps. Such a hit should allow a followup to a dead deer within 40 to 70 yards. Because I have done just that myself with this combination.

Keep it at 50 yards or under.

Some may suggest a 250 SWC, but given the speeds most commonly suggested for good results (like the 900 to 975 fps range) probably equal or exceed +P pressures due to the heavy, usually deeply seated bullet, the higher speed of the HP is likely to tear a bigger hole.....as long as the lungs and ribs are the target. This compared to a SWC at 850 which is more like it for your old Smith.

If you are determined to take a shot at any angle, then go with a heavy SWC, but I'd rather shoot that in a 625 than an older Smith Army revolver. If I had to choose between a 250 SWC at 850 and a 185 JHP at 1150 (both okay for your Smith Army) for a broadside lung shot I'd go for the lighter HP as superior.

[mpmarty]

Aw shucks go buy the kid a 10mm.

[nicholst55]

I'd look at a 200-230 grain TC bullet in the 1917 S&W, personally. Load it to about 850 FPS and I bet it would punch a good hole in a deer that was within 50 yards. A RFN bullet would work equally well, IMHO.

[I'll Make Mine]

Yep, here's another vote for the .45 ACP revolver. With loads specific to a revolver, it should do a fine job on deer -- which cannot be said for .38 S&W or, if there's any other choice, 9x19 (even with +P loads), though the 9 mm is still ahead of the .38 Smith.

[sw282]

Back in the early 80s l was shooting IHMSA silhouettes with a 44 mag SW 29 and decided to try deer hunting with it. After a few years of successful seasons l had tallied 7 deer with my 44 Smith when l decided to carry it instead of my rifle.
0ne year while deciding to move my favorite ladder stand after work l was surprised on the trail by a doe. There she stood in front looking and not moving 15yards from me. Being armed only with a SW Chiefs Special 38 l decided to shoot her. l drew and fired hitting her high above her shoulders breaking her back. l quickly ran up and put one in front of her ear. She was not very big but really good for her 70lb size. My feeling is the 38spcl is quite adequate as backup for deer.

[I'll Make Mine]

My feeling is the 38spcl is quite adequate as backup for deer.

It might well be, if you're close enough and can place your bullet well. A .38 S&W, by contrast, is the cartridge from which .38 Special was developed, a round century ago; it was originally a BP cartridge and, in its British version, is alternately called .38-200 for the 200 grain round nose loading -- which moved out at a sedate 500 or so feet per second (even the lighter bullets in this cartridge are comfortably below 800 ft/s). It'd kill a man dead enough at close range, but I wouldn't want to try shooting a deer, even at 15 or 20 yards, with that kind of rainbow trajectory, nor would I want to count on modern .38 S&W loads to break a bone and still take out heart or lungs. Yes, it'd kill a deer -- if everything went right. If not, it could lead to a long track after a wounded animal.

[DonMountain]

I have two molds for the .45 ACP 1917 S&W Army. One is a truncated flat nose 200 grain without a gas check and the other one is larger truncated flat nose with a gas check that casts about 280 grains. The 200 grain comes out of the mold at 0.451 diameter and the 280 grain comes out at 0.454 and just fits the cylinder and holds a tighter group. But my Chronograph has stopped working on me and I don't have velocities on either load. So my first thought was to load the 280 grains and find where the groups fall and get the kid practicing for holdover and all. :Fire: Or I could give him the Whitneyville Walker in .44 to go with his muzzleloader!

[MT Gianni]

A 22 lr wiill kill a deer if placed in the earhole and I am sure that the 32 Long would do as well in the same place. If a backup is to prevent a marginally hit deer from escaping I would use the 45.

[RobS]

45 ACP with a 230 to 250 grain flat nose cast boolit would do the job. A meplat of .320 or larger would work very well in particular if he is using the revolver at close range.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

it's s shame the NOE 452-230HP has not shipped yet. Next week! The HP would be perfect as a finishing shot. Here in Idaho we have lots of wolves and the occasional Grizz. I expect to have six of them, loaded up about 1000fps in my Anaconda next month.

Rich
Sua Sponte

[grrifles]

45ACP with 200 SWC would do the job nicely.

Chris

[44man]

ACP! Then go directly to the .40, .41 or .44.
The .38 S&W is one of the saddest things ever made. Years ago I fixed an old gun and tested it. At 2' boolits only went half depth in a pine 2x4.
The special is also sad for hunting and even BG shooting. Many LEO's were killed after needing to use the special.
Even the .357 needs specific bullets for hunting.
I rank the .38 S&W with the .25 ACP.

[Harter66]

My Dads 1917 Colt likes the 454-255 RF Lee . They're seated long out to the top lube groove IIRC over Unique. The velocities were around 850 . The seating length wasn't critical in his w/a Colts length cylinder , acp chambers and 454 throats. I cast them pretty soft, however ribs to ribs I would expect an exit w/in 45yd .

[DonMountain]

My Dads 1917 Colt likes the 454-255 RF Lee . They're seated long out to the top lube groove IIRC over Unique. The velocities were around 850 . The seating length wasn't critical in his w/a Colts length cylinder , acp chambers and 454 throats. I cast them pretty soft, however ribs to ribs I would expect an exit w/in 45yd .

How many grains of Unique are you using for the 454-255 RF Lee may I ask. I have been using 7.0 grains of Unique for the 200 grain bullet with pretty good results. :cbpour:

[DonMountain]

it's s shame the NOE 452-230HP has not shipped yet. Next week! The HP would be perfect as a finishing shot. Here in Idaho we have lots of wolves and the occasional Grizz. I expect to have six of them, loaded up about 1000fps in my Anaconda next month.

Rich
Sua Sponte

Are you proposing to shoot Grizzley Bear with a 230 grain boolit in a 45 ACP? This sounds marginal for something that would attack back! :holysheep I think at a minimum I would take my Ruger Redhawk in .44 Mag loaded hot with 320 grain boolits! But shooting out of a deer stand at deer with a 45 ACP I don't feel like I am in too much danger. :groner:

[leadman]

There is a very good article in the August 2008 Handloader on loading for the 1917 service revolvers by Brian Pearce.

If the kid is not experienced with a handgun the 200 gr boolit may have less recoil and should still have enough for a deer under the stand.
If he can handle the 280gr boolit so much the better.

[DonMountain]

There is a very good article in the August 2008 Handloader on loading for the 1917 service revolvers by Brian Pearce.

If the kid is not experienced with a handgun the 200 gr boolit may have less recoil and should still have enough for a deer under the stand.
If he can handle the 280gr boolit so much the better.

The kid works on a farm and is 6'-2" and 225 pounds and prefers to shoot my .44 Mag. But so do I when shooting at deer. So he gets the second best choice using the 50 Cal muzzleloader and or the .45 ACP. He is saving up for college next year and can't afford to buy any new guns. I can't afford to purchase any magazines like Handloader due to the poor crops of soybeans this year here on the farm due to the drought. That and the deer eating them all up. I've had all the grandkids walk out to the bean fields every night to jump and down and holler to scare all the deer off. But that is not working very well anymore. One of the bucks got mad at the 6 year old and chased her off the field a week or so ago. Maybe thats a good use for the 38 S&W, making more noise! :mrgreen:

[44man]

The kid works on a farm and is 6'-2" and 225 pounds and prefers to shoot my .44 Mag. But so do I when shooting at deer. So he gets the second best choice using the 50 Cal muzzleloader and or the .45 ACP. He is saving up for college next year and can't afford to buy any new guns. I can't afford to purchase any magazines like Handloader due to the poor crops of soybeans this year here on the farm due to the drought. That and the deer eating them all up. I've had all the grandkids walk out to the bean fields every night to jump and down and holler to scare all the deer off. But that is not working very well anymore. One of the bucks got mad at the 6 year old and chased her off the field a week or so ago. Maybe thats a good use for the 38 S&W, making more noise! :mrgreen:
Gun fire does not scare deer. Use a silent dog whistle or any high freq noise. You do not need to hear it.

[sqlbullet]

Aw shucks go buy the kid a 10mm.

I came here to say this. Late again.