Boolet mold throws them at .311 is that ok or do I need to resize to .309

[Survival Bill]

11111

[grrifles]

Have you slugged the bore?

Chris

[geargnasher]

Cast the throat.

Gear

[popper]

Can you shoot .311 through an 06 safely? Sure. Slugging and casting the chamber are the recommended way get started correctly, but not mandatory. You can shoot the .311, try a .310 Lee sizer and see which works best. How are you putting on GC without a sizer? I assume you are buying the CBs. Provide more info on reloading equipment that you are using and read some of the forum posts.

[geargnasher]

OR you could measure the gun, fit the boolit to it, and remove the guessing.

Gear

[williamwaco]

I have used .311 bullets in the .30 Carbine, 30-30, .308, and 30-06 ( and several .32 cal handguns ) for many years.

Try them before you decide you can't use them.


.

[PuppetZ]

Is the only way it can be done is with a press to push them through or can they be pushed through by hand/hammer/hand tool of some kind through a re-sizer ?

No way you're pushing them through a sizer by hand. A hammer sure would work but I would not do that. A hand tool of some sort....why not. As long as it got enough leverage. It require quite a bit of force to shave .002 from a lead slug.

As others have mentionned, there is no counter-indication to shooting .311 in a '06, provided that they chamber freely and without restriction. Although I prefer to fit my boolit to my bore to a more controlled tolerance, if you want to keep it simple, make a few dummies with your "as cast" boolits and try them for proper feed. If they work ok, load a few and shoot. If they shoot to your satisfaction and dont make a mess of your bore, you are good to go.

In short load'em and shoot, the gun will tell you if it's ok with them.

Hope that helped.

[35remington]

If this 113 grain bullet is the C113F as I suspect, try 9 grains Red Dot for 1550 fps in the 30-06. This worked better than more Red Dot when I use that bullet. It copies a midrange 32-20 load, and with a hard bullet drops small game and bigger critters really well. Fairly small amount of meat damage if the bullet is cast hard or quenched.

Hits at the lower thick/thin junction of my crosshairs at 50 yards on 4.5X when the rifle is sighted at 200 with a full power jacketed 150. Handy, and I don't have to rezero the rifle to small game hunt. I just use the lower point of aim.

See if a round loaded with a .311" bullet chambers freely. If it does, try it.

If you are using 12 grains Red Dot, I'll predict the results will be miserable without the gascheck, and not so good at 9 grains either.

[KYCaster]

Have you slugged the bore?

Chris


Cast the throat.

Gear


See if a round loaded with a .311" bullet chambers freely. If it does, try it.



While #'s 1 and 2 are correct; since you're asking a very basic question it's logical to assume your cast boolit experience is very basic. If that's the case then #3 is a very good place to start.

If that doesn't work then #'s 1 and 2 will tell you why.

Jerry (I like the KISS approach)

[45-70 Chevroner]

Get a Lee sizing die from the Midway catalog or a number of other reloading catalogs for $18.99 + shipping. It comes with a bottle of Lee liquid alox bullet lube but you have to slug your bore first and then order the kit that is .001 or .002 larger than you bore. The kit will work with your reloading press. It is the least expensive way to go.

[Kraschenbirn]

Seat a few samples 'as cast'...if they'll feed and chamber, shoot 'em as is and let the gun tell you what it likes. My Garand and my heavy-barrel .308 Win like .310s but my Savage 340 (.30-30) and my Douglas-barreled Mauser '06 seem to shoot just a touch better with .311s...given all boolits cast from the same alloy.

Bill

[popper]

boolet gets stuck in the chamber on extraction I was going to ask
lee loader Do you flare the mouth? Is a pulled CB the right size?
GC are loose Sitting loose in the case is not a good idea. I guess OK if single loaded (don't know if it would cause chamber ringing or not). What happens if recoil from a previous round causes GC to fall off in mag loaded round? My guess, case partially sizes the GC but would give lousy neck tension. I'd get them crimped or anneal them to see if the case will do the crimping. I've seen the '06 loader but don't remember if it had a hole that you could use to seat the GC.

[sthwestvictoria]

Is the only way it can be done is with a press to push them through or can they be pushed through by hand/hammer/hand tool of some kind through a re-sizer ?



Lee have previously made a hammer through sizer:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_20993504a4cadbeb1a.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6589)

This pamphlet came with an NIB but very dusty Lee .270 mold from the local gun store. Not sure how old it is (is a single cavity .270 110gr GC)

If you want to reload cast with a Lee Loader, have a look at campfire casting with Junior:
http://www.castbullet.com/reload/campcast.htm

The other useful piece of equipment he uses is a .30 calibre handheld case mouth expander.

[MBTcustom]

What size is the hole in the Lee loader that the boolit goes through? The one I bought was too small and would size down the boolit to .310. If yours does this, then it does not matter how you sized the boolit before you ran it through the seating operation.
the good part about this is that you can use it to your advantage.
Use a pair of needle nosed pliers to bell the brass (a good tool to have with you for many operations in the field.)
Take the time to hone the bore of your Lee loader so that it acts like a push through sizer.
Take a gas-check and stick it on the base of the boolit and push it through the die and into your charged brass.
As long as you keep the base of the boolit inside the neck of the brass and don't go below it, you will never have a problem. Once the boolit makes it out of the barrel, it does not matter that the gas-check flies off (unless you are shooting through a chronograph of course).
I make my own Lee style loaders for my rifles (don't ask me why, I just like them) and this is how I handle this issue.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Try 7 grains of Red Dot with your naked boolits per Ed Harris.

[1Shirt]

No big deal, if it will chamber, shoot it!
1Shirt!

[MBTcustom]

I wouldn't worry about it. Hardness is at the tail end of the list of important things to do, and WW aren't too hard for hunting even when water dropped.

[popper]

Bill, if the GCs are not crimped or glued, make sure you check for barrel obstructions before firing the next round, well, check for stuck CB too. It probably, if detached, would come out the muzzle but might increase pressure a bunch. Or it could be turned sideways, maybe not come out. Better to be safe than sorry. Until you get some kind of seater, I'd think about using a tack hammer and anvil to crimp them on - or a stack of fender washers glued together and reamed to make a seater.

[MBTcustom]

if the GCs are not crimped or glued, make sure you check for barrel obstructions before firing the next round, well, check for stuck CB too. It probably, if detached, would come out the muzzle but might increase pressure a bunch. Or it could be turned sideways, maybe not come out. Better to be safe than sorry.
This makes no sense to me whatsoever. It can't happen. Especially if you keep the GC in the neck like your'e supposed to, but even if you don't, there will always be more pressure behind the GC than in front of it, and we are talking about enough pressure to blast a little thing like a gas check out of a barrel even if it managed to magically dislodge itself from the boolit, overcome 50,000 PSI to create a gap of at least .050 inch, and then get up the gumption to turn 90 degrees in the barrel even though it is being engraved by the rifling.
How many times does this happen while you are seating those gas checks? When you are seating them in a Lee push-through sizer, you are only applying maybe 20 pounds of pressure, so it must happen all the time right?
There are folks who have had moderate success loading gas checks upside down behind a PB boolit.
The crimp on GC is a relatively new invention and was not used back in the early 1900s. I know because I traded a guy for some gas checks and made a royal @ss of myself when I got vintage GCs that didn't crimp on.:oops: and accused him of sending me homemade gas checks (I still beat myself up over that. Not my best moment)
Some folks have gas checks that are just a Zink disk with no walls at all.
This is a picture of a recovered boolit. Look at the engraving, and tell me how this could turn sideways in the barrel?
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/goodsteel/IMG_0959-1.jpg
Popper, feel free to prove me wrong. I don't know everything, but I can't swallow that post of yours.

[canyon-ghost]

That's how it's done Survival, a little experimenting and trial-&-error. I'd watch the bullets on paper to see if they shoot decently accurate. I tried a heavy bullet once and had to change mold styles in 7mm. Just goes with the territory.

Don't be surprised if they don't all shoot into a standard 8X11" sheet of paper. Some mold styles will drag down a bore and others will zing out there so beautifully that you wonder why you didn't try it first.

[popper]

goodsteel - If it is possible to come off in flight with no force to pull them off, it is possible to come off in the case. Bill is evidently a new(to cast) reloader, so I thought I would mention that there IS a possibility. Not my gun or my face behind it. Similar to the warning of using COW in a bottle neck case.

[HORNET]

FWIW, I have had a gas check fall out of a fired case. Lyman slip-on check on an RCBS 22-55-FN seated about .090 deeper than intended in a .223 case, which put the check below the end of the case neck and into the powder space, no filler. If it gets loose before it gets fully into the barrel, it can end up anywhere. And,YES, some of the old slip-ons will come off after they clear the barrel. Rough on chronograph screens.

[popper]

I haven't had the problem but did read the new thread about it this morning.

[MBTcustom]

That's why I said to seat them in the neck of the brass, post #16. If you load them correctly, as I stated, then you won't ever have a problem.
I am shocked at HORNETs experience. I won't question it, but that's got to be a one in a million instance. I still can't see a gas check getting stuck in the barrel. Never heard of it before. If that ever does happen, something was seriously wrong with the way it was loaded.

Keep the checks in the necks of the brass, and use published load data, and there will never be a problem.

[trixter]

" if you keep the GC in the neck like your'e supposed to"

I have a question about the above quote. If I seat the boolits to where the GC is still in the neck they will not fit the magazine; too long and even too long according to the COL in Lyman's handbook. So now I am confused.

[MBTcustom]

Nothing to be confused about trixter, you've got the wrong boolit for your rifle is all. You need to get something that will keep the GC in the neck, because even if you crimp them on, they are unsupported.
What caliber and rifle are you loading?

[trixter]

They are for my 30-06, and I also am using them in my 300 Savage (bolt/Remington).

[MBTcustom]

Very nice rifles.
Go to swappin and sellin section and see if somebody will send you some RCBS 308-180-SP
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/112896/rcbs-2-cavity-bullet-mold-30-180-sp-30-caliber-309-diameter-180-grain-semi-point-gas-check
or the RCBS 308-150-FN
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/112800/rcbs-2-cavity-bullet-mold-30-150-fn-30-caliber-309-diameter-150-grain-flat-nose-gas-check
Both are supposed to be very good boolits and would be my top choice if I didn't have an aversion to 30 caliber rifles.
What boolit are you running right now? If you are trying to go super heavy, you may have no choice but to use crimp on gas checks.
I totally sympathize with your problem though. That's why I am building two rifles right now in 358Winchester on long actions. One is a Sako AV and the other is a 700 BDL long action. OAL limitations on heavy boolits are fixing to be a thing of the past for me!

[largom]

They are for my 30-06, and I also am using them in my 300 Savage (bolt/Remington).


You will find it very difficult to find a boolit that does not seat below the short neck of the 300 Savage. I use Hornady crimp on checks with the Lee 309-150 boolit in my Sav. 99 and have never had a check to come off. If the mold is properly made the checks should snap on before sizing. I shoot all of my 30 Cal. boolits at .311 Dia. if they will chamber. I lube in a .312 sizer and then use a .311 push thru sizer.
If you do not have a sizer or check seater to crimp the checks on with then the only thing swaging them to size is the case neck when seating the boolit. This could be a dangerous situation with the check coming off when seated below the neck.

Larry

[jlchucker]

Get a Lee sizing die from the Midway catalog or a number of other reloading catalogs for $18.99 + shipping. It comes with a bottle of Lee liquid alox bullet lube but you have to slug your bore first and then order the kit that is .001 or .002 larger than you bore. The kit will work with your reloading press. It is the least expensive way to go.

Like everyone else has been saying, slug and measure your bore. Do that before spending money that you probably don't need to. I wish all of my boolits out of various 30 cal molds dropped a bit large. Even if you feel a need to size them down, unless you slug and measure first, you'll still be just guessing which would be the proper Lee sizing die for your barrel. I suspect, though that you don't need to buy anything, but I'm just guessing, too. :!:

[HORNET]

I try to use crimp-on gas checks for everything when possible. I've got a few combinations where the gas check is below the case neck and use a little dacron filler to support the check and help hold it in place until it's in the barrel. Haven't seen one come out of the case or action except that one slip-on that I mentioned. The check on the 266469 in my 6.5x.257 is about 1/4" below the case neck and seems to be staying on with the use of the dacron.

[MBTcustom]

Its not falling off that folks are worried about. I'm thinking it's swirling gas that can pluck the gas check off the base of the boolit that causes the trouble. Again, if you just keep the check in the neck of the brass, you won't have a problem.

[popper]

Bill - it isn't sized to the bbl. CB will go out - hopefully. GC gets turned sideways like a free carb choke plate. If they come off on the way to to target, accuracy may suffer. My 2 cents.

[MBTcustom]

OK then how easy or hard should it be to take off a GC from the base of the boolit whats the test for it?
I can pull mine off with little effort but if I shake them very hard they stay on...
I make gas check dies on occasion. If the check is fit properly to your particular boolit, then it will be difficult to pry it off with your fingernail It can be done but you have to work at it.
The mistake that most folks make with gas checks, is that they try to make them out of whatever material they have, and rarely does the material match the application. A gas check is a precision piece of the most important part of the boolit. It needs to be sized to exacting standards in order to get good accuracy out of it. If they are made right, then they stay on and work perfectly, but most folks are stamping them out of the most ungodly materials they can find. There is as much effort that goes into a properly fitting check, as there is in a properly fitting boolit. Its the same difference.

[popper]

Gotcha hooked now. Glad everything turned out OK. 3" @ 100 and 3" low is not bad for the first try of the 180. Go up and down in 1/2 gr steps to find the better accuracy. Crimping the GC will probably help also. Not sure I understand the 113 gr results, with GC shooting worse than without. Are these a plain base or just left the check off? I suppose it is the really fast powder. I think you said it slugged @ .309 so a .310 sizer should work. You can hone to .311 if needed or get the .311 also.

[popper]

end up with all the lead I can ever use Wish I had that problem. Now you have to get a press for the Lee sizers. Don't know if they make a tap-o-matic sizer, never tried to use a hammer with the Lee push thru. So that red dot bumped up the base real good but maybe was too fast for the GC ones?

[NSP64]

Survival Bill, you probably need to look at the' smokeless paper patching ' subforum. If you paper patch the boolets you might not need lube, gascheck or sizer.