View Full Version : 358105SWC in 9mm Shield
Anyone using these?
I tried some over Bullseye and had problems feeding the rounds. Slight bulge halfway down the case. Slide didn't close smoothly on some. Others it closed fine but rounds hung up on each other in the feeding. Shorter OAL than both factory rounds and my other reloaded RN BOOLITS.
MtGun44
09-05-2012, 11:48 PM
Are you taper crimping? 9mm brass varies in wall thickness MASSIVELY. I would
suggest that you may want to sort some by headstamp (choose one that seems to
work best as far as fit is concerned), too.
Bill
I've also been trying to get my shield to shoot boolits. Seems to me the barrel throat is tight. Some factory rounds won't drop in. I've been trying Lee 358-125-RF with limited success. Lately I haven't had much chance to work on it, maybe I'll get back to it this weekend. My results will be posted.
Bill I am giving it only a slight taper crimp. Using Win brass I could change to some different manufactured brass and see if that helps since I have plenty of once fired brass.
It looked to me like the round would fire and eject the case, but the next one up got stuck as it moved up into position to go into the throat. So it wound up at an angle. I had to drop the mag, cycle it out and then go from there. If I placed that round in the chamber by hand it would go into the throat and fire. But these rounds definitely don't fit easily into the throat area not loosely in there at any rate.
Joe
Mohavedog
09-06-2012, 02:59 PM
Bill I am giving it only a slight taper crimp. Using Win brass I could change to some different manufactured brass and see if that helps since I have plenty of once fired brass.
It looked to me like the round would fire and eject the case, but the next one up got stuck as it moved up into position to go into the throat. So it wound up at an angle. I had to drop the mag, cycle it out and then go from there. If I placed that round in the chamber by hand it would go into the throat and fire. But these rounds definitely don't fit easily into the throat area not loosely in there at any rate.
Joe
Joe, it sounds like a classic 3-point jam to me. Before you have any smithing done the first thing I would change is the boolit. After years of avoiding 9mm (I'm a 45acp guy), for a couple of reasons I got into the 9's. I did a lot of research before buying my first mould and I discovered many references to the SWC not chambering just like you're experiencing. Seems that many 9's just don't like that sharp shoulder ahead of the case mouth. My opinion is that the shoulder doesn't let the cartridge tip over before it contacts the barrel hood.
I bought the Lee 356-120TC and haven't found a 9mm yet that won't chamber this boolit. Others with more detailed experience will prob chime in so hopefully you can get more opinions. I would recommend staying away from the tumble lube version of this boolit from my and others' opinions also.
Good Luck, Mohavedog
Wally
09-06-2012, 04:09 PM
Joe, it sounds like a classic 3-point jam to me. Before you have any smithing done the first thing I would change is the boolit. After years of avoiding 9mm (I'm a 45acp guy), for a couple of reasons I got into the 9's. I did a lot of research before buying my first mould and I discovered many references to the SWC not chambering just like you're experiencing. Seems that many 9's just don't like that sharp shoulder ahead of the case mouth. My opinion is that the shoulder doesn't let the cartridge tip over before it contacts the barrel hood.
I bought the Lee 356-120TC and haven't found a 9mm yet that won't chamber this boolit. Others with more detailed experience will prob chime in so hopefully you can get more opinions. I would recommend staying away from the tumble lube version of this boolit from my and others' opinions also.
Good Luck, Mohavedog
I have a Taurus 99AF and while it feeds and shoots the Lee 105 SWC very nicely, I agree that the Lee 120 TC is a better choice. I just bought the mold this year and I highly recommend it.
I am going to try it with different factory cases and see if that makes any difference in feeding. I could reduce the BOOLITS diameter too.
I do have the rcbs 09115 RN which shoots very well over Bullseye to fall back on.
Mohavedog
09-06-2012, 07:21 PM
I am going to try it with different factory cases and see if that makes any difference in feeding. I could reduce the BOOLITS diameter too.
I do have the rcbs 09115 RN which shoots very well over Bullseye to fall back on.
Are you saying that you have the RCBS RN but haven't tried it in your new Shield? That would be my first thing to try. This would show you if the boolit is the prob or not. I don't think the cases are your prob.
lwknight
09-06-2012, 07:51 PM
Man , thats the typical stove pipe jam. You need a hotter load or a better grip and maybe even both.
You never mentioned any load specifics. 105 grains is really light for the 9mm.
BTW: what on earth is a " 9mm shield" ?
S&W M&P "Shield" 9mm.
The RCBS 09115RN runs fine over BE in this gun. Using Win brass too. The load for the 358105 SWC was a max. Load of BE in Win brass. Smaller loads did the same jamming with this boolit
No jams with WWB 115 gr RN and pretty accurate too.
Mohavedog
09-06-2012, 08:58 PM
Man , thats the typical stove pipe jam. You need a hotter load or a better grip and maybe even both.
You never mentioned any load specifics. 105 grains is really light for the 9mm.
BTW: what on earth is a " 9mm shield" ?
No Sir, Just to clarify what the op describes is not a "stove-pipe" jam. Stove-pipe jam is when the cartridge fires and as the case is ejected it is trapped by the returning slide and looks like a pipe standing straight up.
The Shield is a new model of S&W m&p single stack for nice compact ccw carry.
lwknight
09-06-2012, 09:22 PM
Oh , OK. I have had several pistols stand up the round instead of cambering it when the load was too light. Even though the spent brass is not the one caught I always called that a stove pipe anyway because the round was looking up to the sky or partially chambered.
I decided to try reducing the diameter of the 358105 by .001 to .357, as cast they were .358 and I think this was causing unnecessary bulge when seated. I made 3 dummy rounds with this new dia. boolit and they fed and ejected fine in the gun. I don't need to push them into the barrel either compared to the other rounds at .358 dia.
Maybe this will work after all. I will make up some to test with the best load from the other test.
Joe
Houndog
09-08-2012, 08:44 AM
I also have a Shield and it feeds the 356 120 TC, 356402 Lyman and both RCBS 9mm TC boolets just fine using 4.5gr Unique. I've NEVER got the RF style boolets for the 38/357 to feed RELIABLY in any 9MM. YOUR results may be different.
Hogdaddy
09-08-2012, 09:34 AM
+3 On the TC, Barrle check rounds as you said, some factory ammo won't fit JMO ; )
H/D
Even at reduced OAL this gun doesn't like SWC design. I reduced the diameter too by .001 with no difference.
After looking at more data on this load, I think I will bump up my powder another 0.1 since that will be at max and see if this cycles in this gun. Another idea will be as someone already posted to try it in different manufactured brass and see if the brass thickness isn't interfering with the functioning.
Joe
GREENCOUNTYPETE
09-18-2012, 04:04 PM
I like the 356-120TC also , with a taper crimp
Well I am stubborn enough to keep at something like this and I finally had success with the 358105 Lee design. I used 0.1 gr more of the Bullseye and OAL up to the crimp groove and they recycled reliably in WIN brass. I tried them in RP brass and they weren't bad either but the WIN brass with a little more Bullseye was the best. 0.357 dia boolits. These were all tumble lubed in 45/45/10 too.
Joe
MtGun44
10-01-2012, 01:08 PM
Good news! Glad you got it sorted out. I think you have seen how much
the brass varies, and really from Win to Rem is minor compared to some
of the European brass.
You should report you LOA for this boolit, also - primarily to help others
that will be using it. May not be perfect but will give them a starting place.
Bill
I finally got my Shield to run with boolits. I'm using Lee 358-125-RF, sized with a Lee .356 push through sizer, they measure something like .35675 after sizing. Seems to work with mixed brass and 3.5grs of Unique. 1.050" OAL. My .357 sizer made boolits that measure almost .358 and that is too tight for my barrel throat. I've only shot 15 so time will tell.
trapper9260
10-02-2012, 07:08 AM
I use the lyman . and the ones I use you can use also in a 357 or 38spl and they are RN and HP and SWC . the SWC is 147 and I do not have any problem in my gun that is a S&W Sigma and I use unqiue .I size the bullets to what I need for 9mm and I also size what I need to my 357 .I use mix case for 9MM and do not have any problems .But you do need to make sure they are the size for 9MM lugar or 9MM parbellum and 9x19 ,there is some that is 9x21 and there is also some russian 9MM too you do not want to use the last 2 .The russian 9mm is smaller and the 9x21 is bigger then the ones you need if your gun shoots 9MM lugar.
I want to try some with Unique too, maybe get better accuracy. We will see.
I need to either TL twice with these too or try some other lube style- a little more leading than I would like to see with the 45-45-10 once lubed. I TL them, resize then loaded them up. Maybe another TL will improve the leading situation before loading them?
Joe
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