Tips on Salvaging Range Lead

[Andy_P]

I've seen some good tips here and there, but little in the way of pics, and a number of questions unanswered.

We have an outside berm that has been shot into for years and has never (to the best of my knowledge) had any lead salvaged from it. I dug around in it and came up with a few pounds of scrap, but I'd like to go with real gusto and not re-invent the wheel in refining a method. The berm is made of very sandy soil and at 100 yds. Here's few questions:

- where will I find most of the bullets? What height and depth? Do they migrate downwards from gravity?
- what's the best method to separate soil from scrap? Pics
- any special tips onm the smelting of it?

[mooman76]

If the range has been shot allot, there should be a pretty good indintation in the backstop. The place where it is deepest should have the most. Get some heavy metal screen like the diamond shaped stuff with small holes. Build a frame to hold it at about a 45 degree angle and throw the dirt on it. the loose dirt should go through and the bullets roll off. You will have some rocks and stuff but thats ok. Pick out the bigger junk and melt it all in a big pot. The non lead stuff will float. MAKE SURE IT IS ABSOLUTLY DRY WHEN YOU DO THIS OR IT WILL EXPLODE!

[Freightman]

Do not fill the five gal. bucket up or you will need a fork lift, about half is all I can load into my pick-up so I take two buckets.

[redneckdan]

from my exerpience. it does take a more energy to melt range lead than ingots or wheel weights.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive tried many ways and just about have given up on it. Its to me more work then its worth. You usually will do alot better for lbs of lead for time invested cruising the tire shops for wws

[monadnock#5]

With the price of scrap on its way out of sight, it's small wonder you would want to try mining the berm. Do resist the temptation however. Lloyd's advice is sound. And besides, this is the sort of thing you need to get the permission of the Board for before hand, especially if you're a short timer.

Ken

[ron brooks]

When I'm he only one there I just walk around the berms, especially after a rain, and pick up the slugs laying on the top of the ground, May only get a couple of pounds, but it bets nothing and no one is getting upset.

[randyrat]

For the first time i picked up some range lead, smelted it with some WWs and learned what to do with FMJs..Lucky i had a cover on the pot. Watch out they explode.

[Bent Ramrod]

Andy,

Our old berms are out in the desert where the rain falls seldom and the wind blows a lot. The lead seems to get concentrated on top of the soil down to within a few inches of the surface out here. Skimming off the top and sieving the dirt back into the place skimmed, and then moving on to the next outcropping seems to work best for me. A few months or a year later, that place has another outcropping of lead to repeat the process on.

I keep out of the way of the dirt as it goes through the sieve, so as not to breathe the dust. Have had no trouble with water explosions because everything is so dry; however, large jacketed slugs, like .45 hardball, will sometimes squirt lead for several inches as the insides melt and expand.

[32 20 Mike]

ive tried many ways and just about have given up on it. Its to me more work then its worth. You usually will do alot better for lbs of lead for time invested cruising the tire shops for wws

The use of ww's now is more productive, less the "PC" Zinc wts that seem to becoming the wt of the future. Back in the early 1970's when my dept. still issued M19s and cast SWC 38 Spec. ammo for pract, the lead build up became a safety issue in our berm. One of the Honor Farm maintenance guys built a hand crank sieve out of 1/4 inch expanded metal that had a cylinder 14 inches in dia by 20 inches long that was mounted on a stand. It looked like a mini cement mixer that was turned with the crank. The Dept's blt & fishing wt casters could mine all the lead they wanted. Then we went to 9mm's with jackets and it became a major problem to melt the lead from the copper jackets. I found that if you start with a 1/2 full pot of melted lead then add the jacketed stuff slowly it melts faster. BUTTTTT then you have almost pure lead core metal to deal with.... So after a long story, use WW's if you can get them. Mike

[Shiloh]

My shooting buddy and I have been mining for range lead as our sources for WW has dried up.:cry: We asked the range caretaker and he said it was okay as it was for our personal consumption, and he knows we both use a LOT of cast boolits

I takes a lot of propane and there is a mountain of scrap jackets, rocks, wads, ect. It is also soft as it is closer to a pure lead. We use it for pistol bullets and save our WW for rifle boolits. Adding about 15%-20% magnum shot and water hardening would give a good product though.

Four 5 gal. buckets 1/2 full will yield about 2/3 bucket of smelted lead "Muffins"

Shiloh :castmine:

[hunter64]

I was thinking more on the lines of building some kind of bullet trap that I could haul out to the range with me every time I go. Just has to stop handgun speed lead bullets so I would think a 1/2" of steel at 45deg. angle with another one angled at 45 deg back towards the front and both sides covered in would work. Bullet would hit the first plate then bounce (splat) forward and hit the second one and then end up in the bottom of the trap. Have a metal sliding tray that you just take out and dump in a bucket after an hour of shooting and you have it. That way you can just keep recycling the lead you already have.

[WHITETAIL]

AndyP, I also scroung range lead. I have an old 14x10 wooden box with a screen with 1/4 inch holes on it. I just scoop a shovel full of dirt and shake it. What ever stays goes in a 5 gal. pail. Then when I get home this is dumped on the drive way and fiest picked throu. Then gets washed with a hose. Let dry in the sun, and put away till I smelt some time later in the year.

[pipehand]

I was on a long term job near Asheville,N.C. a couple of years ago, and was able to shoot IDPA at the local range every Tuesday night. This range had a slanted backstop that was covered with chunks of truck tires. They had just recently brought in a bobcat loader, and scooped out the bullet and tire mix, and piled it all up outside. I asked if I could have a few buckets full and was told to take all I wanted.
To separate out the rubber, I stopped of at the local grocery store that sold non iodized table salt in the 50 pound bag (rediculously cheap compared to the 1 lb. container) and mixed up a saturated brine solution in a 5 gallon bucket. I poured the rubber/bullet mix into the brine and the rubber floated to the top (it will sink in plain water) and skimmed it off. I then poured the brine into another bucket and repeated the procedure etc. The bullets were then rinsed of salt, and the rubber chunks became part of the gravel driveway. There was still some rubber caught in the cavities and jackets of JHP's but for the must part it was clean. After smelting I got 10, 2-1/2 gallon KrispyKreme icing buckets full of ingots cast in a Lodge cornbread pan (round pan divided into 6 pie shapes). The ingots fit the bucket perfectly, but even at half the size of a 5 gal. bucket, they are about all you can lift without pulling the handles off.
Just thought y'all might be interested in another mining/separation technique.

[garandsrus]

Pipehand,

I found that the rubber sinks in plain water also, which surprised me. I thought that salt water might be able to float the rubber, but hadn't tried it. Thanks for confirmation!

John

[randyrat]

MMMMMMmmm maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea. Get mining rights to all the ranges now for the future. You could even charge a small enviromental clean up fee. >>>i like the salt water trick and the rubber

[TAWILDCATT]

sometimes you people come with new great ideas.the salt was fantastic idea.the back stops need redesigning to improve the ability to mine them before the wackos make life miserable.

[redbear705]

Our range is going to mine the shotgun fields.

I asked a knowledgable person about using the shotgun pellets for making bullets. He told me that it is not a good idea to use shot as there is too much arsenic and antimony in it and it doesnt make good bullets......

Is there any truth to this?

I would like to know before I go talk to the miners about buying a couple of tons of the stuff.

Thanks....JR

[Scrounger]

Our range is going to mine the shotgun fields.

I asked a knowledgable person about using the shotgun pellets for making bullets. He told me that it is not a good idea to use shot as there is too much arsenic and antimony in it and it doesnt make good bullets......

Is there any truth to this?

I would like to know before I go talk to the miners about buying a couple of tons of the stuff.

Thanks....JR

I thought you said he was knowlegible... Just add 1 or 2 per cent tin and it will work fine. I'd buy a half ton if it was around here.

[redbear705]

I am going to buy a ton of this lead if The contractor will give me a good price on it!

I figure that even if it is too hard I will cast rifle boolits with it or thin it out with pure lead or wheel weights.

Hmmmmm.....maybe I should buy more.....or ask for a discount because some of the recovered lead is mine!? :)

JR

Anyhow I have to wait till they get there to do the recovery so I can talk to them about the purchasing of the recoved lead......:(

[cohutt]

I played a little yesterday evening at berm mining. Modest success. made a filter screen out of 1/4" hardware cloth on 2x4s built like a stretcher.

will i do it again? I dunno- perhaps i got it out of my system.

here is some of the report i posted in another reloading forum ealrier, hope it helps anyone who wants to try it. if your soil is sandy vs the georgia clay this might work pretty well-
__________________________________________________ __________
Ok here are the pics i took before my camera died

first, view from truck back to the berm destination. hardware cloth stretcher in bed

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining001.jpg


the contraption- note that I was too cheap to cut off the hardware cloth roll; i figure i'd leave it a 10 foot roll for future use of some sort.
it is 1/4", screwed down to the fram with lathing and sheetrock screws

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining002.jpg

first load- i tried to balance the rack on the recycling bin but it didn't work well. also broke the recycling bin (sorry, City of R, GA)

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining003.jpg

i think i did about 4 shovelfulls, spread out a bit and somewhat filtered. see them thar boolits on the ground too?

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining004.jpg

same lot, filtered more and ready to dump.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining005.jpg

modest success, same lot in a bucket - pretty heavy, so i didn't quit at this point

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining006.jpg

little more to follow....

[cohutt]

eventually i couldn't tell rock from dirtclod from bullet as the dust got finer and covered everything. i started thinking i was getting more rocks than anything else, but then the weight of the handfuls tossed into the buckets suggested otherwise.

the rack worked ok, but i maybe would 2-stage it next time. i'd use 1/2" over the 1/4 to pull the bigger stuff out maybe.

found out less is better and to dump the shovel over a larger area of the rack to save sweeping and bouncing.

the bouncing/shaking worked pretty well- basically picked up one end of the stretcher and shook the contents down towards the other side, then i'd go to other end and do same.

after the shots above i backed truck up so i could balance the stretcher level between the tailagte and the berm hill. no bending over = ++

next pics show how i spread and used shovel to mush the dirtclods through

ok, a couple or 3 of these:

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining007.jpg

spaced apart a little

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining008.jpg

shake it out into a pile of rocks bullets and dirtclods. i picked the bigger rocks out here so i could do the final step in filtering

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining009.jpg

at this point i took the shovel and pressed it flatside over the pile with some downward pressure like i was spreading out a pile of sand or cement. this was pretty effective in busting up the clods and having the pieces fall through.

end product, ready for the bucket, complete with fluxing material for the smelt. some of what appears to be rocks are actually bullets- the deformed remains were pretty deceiving so i quit trying to pick the rocks out when i got to this stage. (The blood loss from the horseflies and finger lacerations was taking its toll and i wanted to get done before it rained. )


http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining010.jpg

(camera died here. )

[BluesBear]

As Arte Johnson, wearing a German helmet, used to say at the end of every episode of Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In...

Veelllllly intelesting.


I hope you get enough useable lead to make the effort worthwhile.
Even though soil isn't the best test medium, it's interesting to see how some of them expanded.

[cohutt]

As Arte Johnson, wearing a German helmet, used to say at the end of every episode of Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In...

Veelllllly intelesting.


I hope you get enough useable lead to make the effort worthwhile.
Even though soil isn't the best test medium, it's interesting to see how some of them expanded.

funny how the lead pitol boolits stayed pretty much in shape. The jacketed bullets were the same. the HP jackets bullets were in all sorts of contorted shapes.
found a couple of hollow based minis that were huge in comparison and somewhere in between the pistol lead boolits and the HP remains in deformation.

[BluesBear]

Ahh your update wasn't there when I started my post. Wow, I type slow


Looks like a very good way to do it. I do think your idea of doing it in two stages might work better also.

If it were me when I got the buckets home I'd pour them back out on the rack and hit it with the hose. Seems like an easy way to not only get the dirt jacketing off the boolits but it'd also wash away most of the remaing non-smeltable materials.

[Goatlips]

Cohutt, your post and pictures ought to be put somewhere that we can find them again.

Now where did I put that roll of hardware cloth....

Goatlips

[randyrat]

If you do it right, you could sell a bunch of it for a profit and have a life time supply of Antimony. Re consituted/mined shot works great for trap shooting again. If you can clean it and sort it it will sell for at least .75/lb....Keep in mind round shot rolls straight oblong shot rolls to the side. Make a sheet metal ramp tilt it at an angle...All the good shot will roll down the middle into a bucket the rest will roll to the side.. Melt the junk into ingots for later use. you could have a gold mine NO a lead mine.

[jhalcott]

Gee whiz! I SURE WISH I knew that shot didn't make good bullets before I made several hundred!!

[truckjohn]

I tried smelting my range lead. Started with approx 3/4-shoebox volume of dry screened "Ore" like Cohutt showed above. Visual inspection showed it to be bullets + bullet chips + rocks + wood + dusty dirt. "Ore" weighed 30 lbs.

Fired up the $10.00 Harbor Freight Dutch oven over the turkey fryer stand.

Results:
Used about 75% of a standard BBQ tank of gas. $10.00
20 lbs lead, unknown alloy content.
7 lbs rocks, dusty dirt/ash, and jackets -- about 1/2 gallon paint can of trash
No explosions in the pot.

Overall......

1. In-efficient on Fuel vs Lead output. -- Need to design a "Pot Skirt" and some good insulation to keep heat "in".... as there is *lots* of loss smelting in open air.

2. Might even be worth fooling around with "Wood Gas" stoves to cut down on fuel costs even more -- I have plenty of "Wood Scrap" available free.

3. At this point, I agree that the Effort/Results ratio is skewed towards the "Effort" end much more than the "Results" end.

Thanks

John

[johnho]

At my range almost everyone shoots lead. Our berm is a fine sand with minor rocks. I have a small handheld screen type scoop that I scrape the lead and sand into, shake and the sand falls out. I can get 5 or 6 5 gallon buckets just under half full, which is about 50-60 pounds each, in about 30-40 minutes.

When it's melted down I end up with about 75% recovered lead and 25% scrap which is rock, sand and jackets. Now it does take a good 6-7 hours to melt this all down and use about 3/4 of a tank of propane. All in all pretty cheap except for the time to do it. I now have about 2300 pounds in small ingots and still collecting it.

It all depends on your range berm from what others have said about their experience. Our range has never been cleaned so there is over 30 years of lead screaming at me whenever I change targets.

John

[cohutt]

It will be a while before i have time to smelt it all down so i pulled a sample and sorted it by hand to check the ratio of lead vs rocks etc.

First, three buckets of scree soaked to get the booger clay loose. pulled sample off the lower left blue bucket. you can see what is left of a muffin ingot pan that i THOUGHT was aluminum in upper right corner. took an hour to get all the ingots out. I will dump them to dry for a few days. (I know i could have skipped the washing part)

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining013.jpg

The semi washed sample pan o' lead ore

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining014.jpg

picked over sample pic 1 - bowl of good stuff, basket of rocks and sticks and pieces of clay pigeons with a little pile of leadless bullet jackets in between. I'm surprised how light the pile of jackets was

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining015.jpg

picked over sample pic # 2- still all looks the same doesn't it?
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining016.jpg


weighed rocks, weighed lead

rocks- 2.5 lbs

lead- 14 lbs


With that ratio i won't pick another ferkin rock out of the mix unless it's floating

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I posted my campimg /campfire methode on the other thread. it works for me.

[Bob Jones]

As an alternative, look around your area for an indoor pistol range. A neighbor of mine owns an indoor range, every week he drops off 200 pounds of range scrap at my driveway to get rid of his "trash". They use steel plates for bullet traps, so it's squashed bullets and jackets, lots of cast bullets, no dirt, rocks or rubber. Melts down real nice, and they just use a broom to sweep it up off the concrete floor.

[leftiye]

You could get a pan, and sluice box. Ever tried air panning?

[truckjohn]

Ok, I ran an alloy analysis on my "Smelted" range lead.
0.25% Sn
0% Sb
0% As
0% Zn
0.008% Ca
0.015% Cu

In other words..... essentially pure lead.

The high Copper is probably from cooking it so long on the turkey fryer base with the jackets, dirt,and rocks.

I resmelted it last night and got another 1.5 lb of dross out of the 20 lbs -- so I am down to 19 lbs of actual lead from 30 lbs of "Ore."

I casted a bunch of 45 ACP slugs last night out of it before I did the alloy test today.....
Casted *Exactly* like pure lead -- Doesn't fill out or flow right unless it is HOT, bullets are *very* shiny and sooooft.....

Have a good one

John

[cohutt]

Got back from vacation saturday to find the pile of dusty berm diggings still in the way....

Heat index here was around 100 with the humidity @ 90%+, so I figured I’d do something smart like smelt the pile of berm bounty right next to my AC’s fan unit……

5:15, piled the big dutch oven full and cranked up the heat.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining017.jpg

OK, have some patience it has only been 15 minutes

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining018.jpg

Seems hot enough

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining019.jpg

Now I know for certain thatI should have started a melt slowly and added a shovel full every now and then as I went along

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining020.jpg

A little stirring and it appears that the lead has vacated the jackets and it is time to sift skim and really enjoy the uncomfortable temperature of my smelting area.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining021.jpg

[cohutt]

I knew there was some lead somewhere under there….

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining022.jpg

Another couple of shovels into it and more nice yellow rancid smoke from the pieces of clay pigeons

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining023.jpg

Ok some progress, finally getting some momentum here

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining025.jpg

Last of the berm debris has finally been added and cooked out…

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining027.jpg

Finally, a nice pool of lead- 5-6 inches deep in a 20 qt dutch oven:

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining028.jpg

[cohutt]

Wax and crushed walnut flux x 3

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining029.jpg


Mmmmmmmm……… lead…. (Finally ready to pour at 8:00)


http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining030.jpg

Some ingots at last

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining032.jpg

Thinking of loading up some of these 35,000 grain hollow points, gotta get a 650mm gun made first though….

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/bermining033.jpg

Filled a 40lb kitty litter container with ingots, maybe 200lbs, maybe more, maybe not.

Worth it?
Yes, now that I have the ingots.

Do it again?

Doubt it (at least until I forget about how much work it was)
:grin:

[pjh421]

Cohutt,

I used to do that too in order to form an adjunct to my WW supply. If I may make an observation, it looks like you are doing way too much prep work.

As soon as the sifting was done and the range gold had been dumped into the back of my Ranger, it got a bath at the local car wash. The next day, after an impromptu drying in the sun, it was shoveled trash and all into the dutch oven. You'll get a bit more smoke but the trash floats and the lead sinks. Flux with Marvelux (or your fav), skim, stir hard with some more flux (scraping the bottom and sides) & then pour ingots.

Paul