inlines, REAL, and FFF (not pellets)

[Whiterabbit]

hi guys,

Some questions about my inline. Here's the context:

I bought it to shoot lead-free conicals (290 grain) cause I live in a non-free state. Since they projectiles are so insane-o expensive, I practice with lee 452 cal 300 grain bullets in sabots. So far so good. I use American Pioneer stick powder, 100 grains.

Because I like consolidation whenever possible and shooting an inline makes me feel dirty inside anyways, I want to stop using sabots and stick powder.

So the first question: Can I just use the FFF I use in my flintlock? 100 grains? (manufacturer specs max load 100 grains). Should I assume that whatever power 100 grains of stick powder gets me, somewhat less FFF will be needed?

Second question: I bought a 50 cal REAL lee mold for 10 bucks at my local shop. 250 grain. It's not 290, but I'm hoping a lighter charge can get me same POI at 100 yards as the hunting bullet for practice. Sound reasonable? (that I can work up a load 'somehow' with the REAL to shoot the same at the range at 100 yards)

Third question: I pushed one REAL through the barrel to test. it did engrave, but it sure went in easy. Only a couple lands engraved, not very deep. Is this normal? or is it supposed to be a tighter fit? They are even easier to load than a patched round ball in the flinter.

Fourth: black powder bullet lube? My normal lube is toilet bowl rings with some JPW, a little paraffin for bulk, and some LLA, not much. it is VERY VERY soft, very very sticky, and applies by hand easily to bullets when desired. fine? no good? What's a normal homemade BP lube (prefer not to buy stuff online, and prefer not to use difficult to locate stuff like bear oil if that's what was period correct to use)

Thanks guys! Hopefully the answers are simple so I can get it sighted, get great practice in there, get the cost of ownership down, and get it back in the safe ready for lead free pig hunting so I can concentrate on the real fun (the flinter)

[HARRYMPOPE]

I shoot 70-85 FFF Triple Seven and Pyro P or FFF Goex with the lyman 50 Plains bullet in my Lyman GPH 1-32 with good accuracy.i tried a lube with petroleum distillates with black powder and it gummed up real bad.I couldn't get the third bullet down the bore without a hammer.It worked fine with the substitutes.I like 50-50 Beeswax and olive oil for BP and conical.

george

[Maven]

Whiterabbit, Let me try to answer some of your questions:

1) FFFg in an inline? Yes, but I'd start at 70 - 80grs., by volume. Also, don't know about your rifle, but my Knight Bighorn much preferred Pyro. RS or FFg to FFFg. Primer type, i.e., #209, #10, or #11 made no difference in ignition or accuracy.

2) Lee 250gr. REAL. Mine cast too small as well. You can "beagle" the mold, which should help or paper patch the REAL's. The latter helped, but the T/C Maxi-Ball fit better as cast and was more accurate to boot.

3) BP (non-petroleum) lube: Google "Stumpy's Moose Snot," which is easy to make. You can substitute olive- or even canola oil for the hard-to-find castor oil if you wish. Moreover, on another forum a poster listed 1 part beeswax : 3 parts peanut oil as an excellent lube (couldn't be simpler!).

Hope this helps!

[Whiterabbit]

oh! I forgot, a major component of my lube is peanut oil. about 30%. Like 30/30/30 oil/toilet bowl wax/paraffin, 9% jpw, and a dollop of LLA.

[Maven]

Whiterabbit, You need to read Harry Pope's post re petroleum products and BP and this entire thread: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=162574

[mooman76]

I haven't tried it yet but most folks with the tight twist barrels and REALs seem to do much better with some sort of felt wad under it. You could try the fff but I would work up to it 5gr at a time. ff may be better for that heavy of a load but it's your choice. You can use plain ol crisco for a lube or there are many recipies here if you choose to make one. The Heavier REAL may work better also but I used the light one in my 54 and it shot good with moderate loads and it has like a 1/21 twist or something like that. Good luck!

[Boerrancher]

I have used petroleum based waxes in smokeless powder loads, but I will not use them with black powder. Petro based waxes and oils will often turn to roofing tar in your bore when mixed with black powder fouling and the heat and pressure. I have had a couple of guns over the years that would shoot petro based lubes with black powder, but we are talking an extreme rarity.

Best wishes,

Joe

[newton]

I have just got done doing some testing with the REAL, and you can also see the results of another guy on here that has tested the REAL a lot more than I.

They are nice boolits. But I have come to the conclusion that they are meant for 1:32/38 and 1:48 twist barrels. If your inline is a 1:28, I would lay a chunk of money down that you will never get any better groups that 3-31/2" at 100 yards.

I know personally though, that at 50 yards you can get 3 holes touching. Its all a matter of the spin and stabilization of the boolit. I fully believe that they are so short that they act like a elongated round ball. If Lee made them just a 1/4" longer I think they would shoot great.

Yes, you might think to yourself that the bullets used in sabots are pretty short, but they are also a smaller diameter.

As far as powder, I use pyrodex RS, and it works fine.

The REAL's do push in easy, they are meant to. Some people talk about them coming off the seat in the hunting field, but I think it would all have to do with what your bore dimensions are. The bottom land usually will not engrave much, then the next one more, and the top one the most. They are progressively bigger around. It "helps" with getting them centered in the bore.

As far as lube I cannot comment. I have not done enough testing there. But it is wise to use a wad over the powder with just a slight bit of lube on it.

They are good boolits, but don't expect much in the accuracy field past 75 yards I'm guessing.

[curator]

Try the Lee 320 grain REAL slug. It shoots quite accurately from my CVA Wolf with 80 grains of FFg and a 3/16" Felt wad over the powder. I use a 50/50 bee's wax/lard lube when shooting real black powder but have on occasion tumble-lubed the REAL boolits in LLA prior to glopping them with my homemade lube. I have a 3X scope on my Wolf so am happy with 3-shot groups of 3" at 100 yards

[newton]

Try the Lee 320 grain REAL slug. It shoots quite accurately from my CVA Wolf with 80 grains of FFg and a 3/16" Felt wad over the powder. I use a 50/50 bee's wax/lard lube when shooting real black powder but have on occasion tumble-lubed the REAL boolits in LLA prior to glopping them with my homemade lube. I have a 3X scope on my Wolf so am happy with 3-shot groups of 3" at 100 yards

Thats the mold I have, and it is true that the 320 grain would be a better one to use. It is longer than the 250.

What twist is your CVA? Out of curiosity, what are your groups at 50 yards like?

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I am just going to go to all FFFG real black , it is working well in my inline NEF with 1:28 twist and a 320 r.e.a.l

i can't see paying the premium for the 777 any more when i can get real black for 11-12 dollars a pound

[nanuk]

GCP

around here, Black, if you can find it is 1.5X the price of pyrodex, and even 777 is cheaper

[curator]

Newton,

I think my Wolf is 1 in 28 twist. The 320 REAL is a good boolit for my gun. Much better than .38 and .44 pistol bullets in sabots. I have fired it over both Pyrocrap RS, 777 pellets, as well as FFFg and FFg real black powder (Goex) By far, FFg works best. Three shot cloverleafs are ordinary at 50 yards off a benchrest. Damp patch after each shot to maintain barrel "condition."

[newton]

Yea, 50 yard cloverleafs for me too. Then when I moved out to 100 I had elephant ear patterns. Lol.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

GCP

around here, Black, if you can find it is 1.5X the price of pyrodex, and even 777 is cheaper

I only found one place to get it around here , it is a 2 hour drive or pay shipping but at 9.50 a can even with the shipping it is less than 777

http://www.addictedtoblackpowder.com/2.html

it just happens that the wife found a very good restaurant with great pie about half way so she is up for the drive whenever i want to get powder.

I also supply our 4H Shooting sports muzzle loader program with powder when I make the run.

[Rick Hodges]

I use fff goex black in a 54 with the 370gr. Lee REAL bullet. 80-90 gr. My rifle is a TC Scout Carbine and it shoots pretty good. All more powder seemed to do for me was blow open groups and make more smoke and pain in my shoulder.