Super Stuck Ball!!!

[1874Sharps]

Gentlemen,

I was at the range tonight with the Early Virginia flintlock and it shot great as usual even in 25 mph wind. Fortunately the wind was mostly a headwind. Then, disaster struck -- I forgot the powder and loaded a patched ball. Darn! I thought it would be no problem and put the ball puller on the range rod. The screw just pulled out lead around the threads and not the ball. I put some water and Ballistol down the bore to lubricate it, but no luck. The ball probably looked like a lead doughnut about then. This was getting me a bit concerned. I tried to put some powder behind the ball by taking out the vent hole liner, but no joy. A flintlock is not like a caplock where you can put some powder under the nipple and blow out the ball. Then my shooting buddy and I came up with an idea: Why not braze a big honking woodscrew onto a 10X32 machine screw? The worst thing that could happen is that it would just tear a bigger hole into the lead ball. Well, thank the Lord it worked! The ball came out.

This is my first flintlock, so I am a newbie at flint but not at muzzleloaders. What else could I have done to get this super stuck patched ball out (besides not forgeting to put in powder before loading the ball)? I would sure like to get some suggestions on solving the stuck ball problem. Thanks in advance!

[waksupi]

Uh. Not that I would have any personal knowledge of dry balling (gulp). I find you can usually work enough into the vent to clear the obstruction. Handiest thing is to go to a bicycle shop, and get a CO2 tire inflator, and some basketball inflater needles. Same as they sell for muzzle loader use, but about ten bucks cheaper. I've not had to use mine since my old shooting buddy died. I always charged him a buck to clear a dry ball. It was a very lucrative business some days!

[TreeKiller]

If you never dry balled it is your first shot with a ML or you have someone else load for you!!
Dan

[bubba.50]

if you can find a grease fittin' with the same threads as yer vent liner ya can pump it out with a grease gun. have done this a couple times on my caplocks. luck & have a good'en friend, bubba.

[smoked turkey]

Yes I think any one who has shot muzzleloaders for any length of time has rammed a patched ball down the bore with nothin behind it. I did this with my little 32 in my excitement to shoot it. Couldn't believe I did it. Like the man said a few anxious moments and had it taken care of. I think the pressure from the CO2 tire inflator would be a good investment.

[Shooter]

if you can find a grease fittin' with the same threads as yer vent liner ya can pump it out with a grease gun. have done this a couple times on my caplocks. luck & have a good'en friend, bubba.

Hear is a tip from an old dry-baller.
Find an old grease gun of the type before cartridges, or leave an empty cartridge in one.
Fill it with Crisco, the cheaper the better. Using the above method, pump ot the ball.

Now the trick! with the barrel removed from the stock, heat with a heat gun or torch over a pan.
The Crisco melts easily and runs out.

Much easier than cleaning automotive grease from the bore.

[gnoahhh]

One thing to not do is pour water in to 'lubricate' the patch. That does nothing more than swell the cloth and make it tighter.

[fouronesix]

No powder- oops! Yep, did it just the other day. To say it was the first time in 45 years of shooting these things would be a gross understatement[smilie=1:. Luckily a ball puller screw worked.

I don't usually take it to the range, but an original US issue segmented 50 cal rod (or one of the modern repros) is about as strong as it gets for such purposes- when normal puller techniques don't work at the range. Most times some 4F behind the ball will pop it out. But with some types/designs, the seated ball will be covering the flash hole so dribbling in some 4F is not an option. Usually I prefer a coarse thread, large sheet metal type screw on the puller rod. Sometimes you need to drill a small pilot hole for the screw. The idea is to not strip the screw when turning into the ball and to get as much purchase on it as possible. The problem with wood screws is they are tapered so may have a greater tendency to pull out.

[Boerrancher]

I have been lucky enough to only dry ball once and that was on my 32 cal cap lock. I pulled the nipple and dosed the snail breach with 10 gr of 3F and bingo. I just pray that I don't have one of those "Senior Moments" with my trade gun. It has no vent liner, just a hole drilled in the barrel, and there is no patent breach to cram any powder into. I think maybe I should invest in a CO2 tire bicycle tire inflator and some ball needles, just to have around. As I get older I have found that those "Senior Moments" are happening with more frequency. In a few years I will be putting up road signs in my home directing me to where I need to go.

Best wishes,

Joe

[1874Sharps]

On my flintlock the vent hole is about 3/4 of an inch in front of the breach plug, so a dry ball is actually just a little behind the vent hole. I guess that means blowing it out with BP or CO2 or compressed air is out. If pouring water down the barrel just swells the patch and makes it tighter, what is the best lube to pour down the barrel in case I do this again? Ballistol? Also, do the breach plugs unscrew very easily?

[waksupi]

On my flintlock the vent hole is about 3/4 of an inch in front of the breach plug, so a dry ball is actually just a little behind the vent hole. I guess that means blowing it out with BP or CO2 or compressed air is out. If pouring water down the barrel just swells the patch and makes it tighter, what is the best lube to pour down the barrel in case I do this again? Ballistol? Also, do the breach plugs unscrew very easily?


If your vent is that far ahead of the breechplug, you have some serious fixing you need to do. And no, most breechplugs do not unscrew easily. The worse you need them out, the more likely they are to be rusted in.

[KCSO]

Like Waksupi said but watche wher you point the gun when you put the air to it. I have an adapter made from a c clamp that has a leather pad on one end and an air chuck on the other. Works great if you don't point it at a plaster wall!

[bob208]

first thing is to throw the ball puler away. the bought one not the one you made. most bought pullers are too small for the job at hand. i have removed more balls with the centers pulled out. first thing i do is work powder in through the nipple or touch hole.

if your touch hole is that far forward you need to rebreach that rifle.

[OverMax]

bubba.50 you and I think alike. Pumping works good didn't it. Twice for you and a couple of times for me too.

1/4-X-28 threaded grease fitting will usually work in a American made rifles vent liner hole. 6X1-MM grease fitting I do believe fit those foreign rifle vent liner threads. Pumping grease to push a ball works good 1874Sharps. You can do it yourself and recycle the grease used by pushing it back thru the barrels vent after the ball has been pumped out. Or take the barrel to a auto repair shop and have it pumped by one of their employee's. As bubba 50 said: luck & have a good'en, that goes for me too. OverMax

[1874Sharps]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_74125046bc76c6f3c.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6555)

I thought I would post a photo of the super ball puller I made from a big sheet metal screw and a 10X32 machine screw.

The screw is long enough to contact the breech while it is being screwed through the stuck ball doughnut hole. This helped to get the ball moving forward.

This TVM Early Virginia model rifle is made by a well known maker, Matt Avance. I am surprised TVM would place the vent hole improperly, too far forward.

[waksupi]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_74125046bc76c6f3c.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6555)



This TVM Early Virginia model rifle is made by a well known maker, Matt Avance. I am surprised TVM would place the vent hole improperly, too far forward.

That wasn't TVM that would have placed it wrong. It was the guy who built it.

[WILCO]

if you can find a grease fittin' with the same threads as yer vent liner ya can pump it out with a grease gun.

That was my thought too.

[dualsport]

It sounds like the combination of a small screw first then the bigger one may have helped. Seems like starting the big screw might be tough without the 'pilot' hole. Just thinking out loud. Maybe a guy oughta carry two sizes. Luckily for me I've been able to get it with a typical puller(small), but they seem to go down the side more than a nice center punch. Not that I've had a lot of practice.

[1874Sharps]

Here is a photo of the lock area showing the vent hole placement. Notice the cool buckskin leather case in the background that the seller through in with the deal as a "fringe benefit."

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_7412504757bb3a345.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6556)

Waksupi,

For some reason I guess I just assumed this rifle was built by Matt Avance, rather than sold as a kit or by components and then built by the end user. What do you think after seeing the photo?

[OverMax]

From what I can determine. Your rifles Vent Hole appears to be located just fine.

[waksupi]

When you get parts from a supplier, the barrel is not drilled with the vent in place.That is up to the builder to locate, as it is a lot harder to inlet the lock in the proper position, trying to align things properly if it is pre-installed. Drilling the vent is the very last thing I do when building a gun.
Without being able to put a rod down the muzzle and measure where the breech face is, it's hard to tell, but it doesn't look like it could be 3/4" in front of the breech face.

[1874Sharps]

The vent hole is indeed about 3/4 of an inch in front of the breech face. I ran a rod with a brass jag on it down the bore with the vent liner out to see how much the jag would travel rearward after passing the vent hole. It travelled an additional 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. When I was trying to get the stuck ball out I had the vent liner out and it seemed that the ball was just behind the vent hole. That, of course, appears to make it impossible to blow out with powder under the vent hole or to pump it out with grease or blow it out with CO2 or air. Am I thinking right on this?

[waksupi]

That rifle needs to be properly breeched. It is wrong.

[1874Sharps]

Waksupi & Excess650,

The jag will go between 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch deeper than the vent hole. It seems like a deeper breech plug that reaches into the barrel farther would fix the problem. Now, here is the question: How important is the vent hole location problem in a practical context? Is it going to hurt anything, or is it important only when a ball gets really stuck? In other words, is there a safety issue?