Cast Bullets for .22 Hornet

[Hilleye]

Firstly apologies if I've inadvertently posted in the wrong area.

Basically I'm trying to find out if someone out there is producing cast bullets suitable for use in a .22 Hornet and find out what peoples experience is using cast bullets in a Hornet.

I have just purchased an Anschutz .22 Hornet and would like to get the cost of reloading to an absolute minimum. I shoot in bulk proabably 1000+ rounds on an average three day rabbit shooting trip. Uptil now I've been using .17M2, .17HMR and .22WMR, but believe I can get the cost of reloading .22 Hornet down below all of these (.17M2 approx $0.25c/rnd). Even if it's only cheaper than .17HMR or .22WMR that'd still be a win.

Orignal plan was to use Winchester .22WMR 40grn projectiles, but sadly these aren't available anymore so casting bullets or actually buying cheap .22LR ammo and pulling projectiles appear to be the most cost effective options. It'd be great to hear from anyone whose already worked through these options and save me from relearning what they already know.I'm an experinced reloader, but haven't reloaded cast bullets before so you'll have to explain cast bullet intricacies like I'm a child.

Also keen to hear from people who have shot cast bullets from a .22 Hornet and what results they've had doing so. Accuracy? MV? Problems with lead fouling?

Hilleye

[Larry Gibson]

1st thing to do is to determine the twist of your rifles barrel. A 16" twist will negate the use of some heavier cast bullets.

I've killed a lot of jack rabbits, rock chucks and ground squirrels with my .22 Hornets using cast bullets in the 1400 - 2400 fps range. You can lower the cost by using a fast powder like Bullseye or Unique (1500 or so loads per lb) and making your own GCs keeping the velocity in the hyper velocity .22LR and low end .22 Mag range. Quality loads in the 2400+ fps range will be more expensive because they will take about twice as much slower powder (2400, 4227, 4759, 5744, Lil'gun, etc), quality GCs whether you make'm or buy 'em and quality alloy.

A "search" will turn up lots of load data and mould suggestions for the right twist of your barrel. Use SP primers also.

A Redding bushing die with bushing to allow neck sizing giving .001 - .002 neck tension to the depth of the cast bullet seating are the best to use. However a lessor expense is the Lee collet die set which will work well also. A .22 short M die will also be needed.

I size my .22 cast at .225 or preferably "as cast" up to .228 if the chamber neck/throat allow it. I use a good NRA 50/50 lube such as Javelina made or Lars still does. My 22 Hornet loads shoot 10 hots into 1.5" at 100 yards with 7-8 of them in 1" or less.

Larry Gibson

[HARRYMPOPE]

The 225438 does well in the 1-16 Hornets.

[canyon-ghost]

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx228/3rdshooter/contenders/hornet001.jpg I use a 225438 Lyman gas checked mold in 22 Hornet, in a TC Contender handun that sports a rifle scope. Like any other lead bullet, the powder charge effects it the most. I wound up with one particular 1/10th grain load that would work. It took almost .5 more to fire j-word bullets.

The little bullet has two lube grooves and a gas check. At 45 grains, it's light enough for the 10" barrelled TC. http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx228/3rdshooter/contenders/hornet003.jpg

[5shotbfr]

i have the lee 55 grn 6 cavity bator mold i use in my encore .. i have no complaints with it .. great acuracy with unique and moderate loads .

midsouth usualy has the 6 cavity .22 bator mold in stock

[Hilleye]

Quality loads in the 2400+ fps range will be more expensive because they will take about twice as much slower powder (2400, 4227, 4759, 5744, Lil'gun, etc), quality GCs whether you make'm or buy 'em and quality alloy.

Larry Gibson

Larry,

If I was to make 1000 cast projectiles able to run at 2400fps+ what do you think it would cost me? Assume buying GC at this stage.

The intent is to use something like Lil'gun or ADI 2205 powder to get the extra velocity, which I'll need to shoot out to 200+yds.

Nik

[kir_kenix]

I second the 225438 as an excellent hornet projectile. The RCBS 55 sp is another good boolit, but it is a little more finicky to get shooting well in my experience.

One of the biggest concerns for you trying to keep the price down is gas checks. They are expensive! Buying a GC maker like pat marlins or Freechex would allow you to keep the price per shot down.

The 22 Hornet is a great round. It can be loaded from .22 short balistics all the way up to 2400 fps of varmit blasting fun. Let us know the twist and we can probably offer more specific advise regarding loads and boolit suggestions.

[5shotbfr]

the last box of gas checks i bought was $27 ... and they do disapear very quickly .

lead costs arent very high ... it takes a awful long time to empty a pot with a 6 cavity mold

[Larry Gibson]

Considering todays price of primers, powder and GCs (won't count the brass or the lube) and if you bought commercial #2 alloy, probably 10 cents a shot or so...........Can be done for less if you buy "on sale", in "quanity", scrounge the alloy and don't count your own time.

Larry Gibson

[Gohon]

I second the 225438 as an excellent hornet projectile

Just out of curiosity, how long have you had that mold? Reason I ask is about three years ago I purchased that mold from MidwayUSA and the check shank was to large. Could not get the checks to go on. Sent it back for a exchange and the second one was the same way. finally gave up and turned it into a plain base mold. Still want the mold but not sure if the third time will be a charm.

[HARRYMPOPE]

I have had 4 variations of the 225438.Some newer ones have one less lube groove and are more pointed.M old ideal 4 cavity appears to be the "correct" version and shoots the best in the Hornet.In all honesty i have better accuracy in the 22-250 with cast bullets than my Hornets.

George

[kir_kenix]

Just out of curiosity, how long have you had that mold? Reason I ask is about three years ago I purchased that mold from MidwayUSA and the check shank was to large. Could not get the checks to go on. Sent it back for a exchange and the second one was the same way. finally gave up and turned it into a plain base mold. Still want the mold but not sure if the third time will be a charm.

I have 2 copies of this mold in my shop. One was purchased new in '07 or '08 and another I found in my grandfathers gear. The new one has one less lube groove, but the same nose profile. Appears as though there are several generations of this boolit. Looking at the pics from the older ideal catalogues, they appear to have a slightly different profile .

In any case, I have had great luck with either mold.

[Hilleye]

It's an Anschutz 1730 D KL MC .22 Hornet so pretty sure it's 1:16 twist rate.

[enfield]

I just got a new 225438 45gr mould and it shoots fine in my 1-16" twist barrels, I also have the lyman 55gr mould and it puts boolits sideways at 25 yards in a
1-16" twist barrel.

[35remington]

Just a comment.....the 225438 at 22 long rifle velocities or a bit above won't be a good jackrabbit stopper. Put some more speed on it, use a flatpointed bullet, or better yet put some more speed on it and use a flatpointed bullet.

225415 gets my vote.

[Larry Gibson]

My 225415 shoots very well to 75 yards out of my 16" twist #3 Ruger. However it loses it between there and 100 yards with accuracy getting bad very quickly. A great bullet in the 14" twist Hornet though.

The 225438 is a good all around choice for the Hornet with a 16" twist. Cast soft it can be driven to 22.LR HV with equal accuracy and effect. Cast harder it ca be driven upwards of 24-2500 fps with useable accuracy to 150+ yards and small game.

Larry Gibson

[leadman]

The OP mentioned pulling 22 LR bullets to use. I haven't tried using them but they are a heeled bullet and normally around .222" to .223" so may be too small also, along wth being very soft.
I use the Lyman 44gr in my 22 K-Hornet with WC680 powder and small rifle primers. I normally cast them out of Lino to help fill-out. When you hit a jack with a linotype boolit even at 1,600 fps the jack usually doesn't move from the spot. I hit one once at about 2,400 fps in the front shoulder, the other whole side to the rear leg was gone!

Gator makes 22 cal gas checks so that is probably the lowest cost available for them. Don't know if Blammer here carries them.
Tried low velocity with no check and it really wasn't worthwhile.

[303Guy]

Welcome aboard, Hilleye.

Interesting post. I also have an Anschutz 22 hornet. Mine's a 1531/32 - that means it is a shorter version of the 222 action.

I'm thinking 22 Hornet with cast but with a difference. I want 3000fps out of it! I'm planning on a 22lr barrel - a long one. But if 2400fps is all I can expect then I might use a 1-in-14 22lr barrel and 55 to 60gr FN boolits. I might also opt for swaging the boolits because of the difficulty in casting such small boolits. I have the RCBS 55 FN mold and can't get it to cast well at all.:-?

[Larry Gibson]

303 Guy

3000 fps might be doable with a 24, preferably a 26" barrel with a 16" twist on th right action. I've not had a chance to cast any more 225438s or the lighter yet 225107s and test them with Lil'gun. The 24-2500 fps is just where I topped out with 2400, 4227 and 4759 with accuracy capable of keeping 7 out of 10 shots in 1" or under at 100 yards for the very small ground squirrels I shoot. I think higher velocity with useable accuracy using Lil'gun is definately possible for larger game. Case capacity of the standard Hornet becomes the limiting factor.

Larry Gibson

[303Guy]

Maybe I should go straight for the long barrel. I get 2740fps with jacketed's in my standard hornet with Lil'Gun and I know the 40's can be driven to 3100fps. Lil'Gun can be compressed quite a bit which seems to help keep pressure down. Case capacity is critical though. Too much and pressure goes up. Go figure!

[runfiverun]

303
run that mold the opposite you normally run mehanite molds.
treat it like an aluminum mold.

i over heat mine to start, where the alloy won't solidify without frosting severely and the sprue won't solidify.
i then run it fast and hot opening the mold right before the sprue is fully solidified.
i also use a 4/6/90 alloy for fill out and final bhn.
the alloy temp is only in the 725 range.
but i run it as fast as i can go 5-6 pours a minute and pour a good sprue on the plate keeping things warm.

[dualsport]

Ranch Dog has a .22 mold offered in gc, pb, or 50/50. It's a 6 cavity. Still working on a pb load for my Hornet but I've got 'cheap' going on.

[Gohon]

Ranch Dog has a .22 mold offered in gc, pb, or 50/50. It's a 6 cavity.

Might be wrong but I think he dropped that mold from his inventory because it wasn't selling all that well.

[Hilleye]

I'm thinking 22 Hornet with cast but with a difference. I want 3000fps out of it! I'm planning on a 22lr barrel - a long one. But if 2400fps is all I can expect then I might use a 1-in-14 22lr barrel and 55 to 60gr FN boolits.

I'd be happy if I was getting similar accuracy and velocity as .17HMR at 2/3 the cost. If I can better the performance of .17HMR (0.5MOA and 2565fps) it's a bonus, but I need a rifle capable of minute of rabbit's head at 200m.

The factory test target for the Anschutz 1730 indicates it's up to this level of accuracy with factory ammo so handloads should perform even better once load testing is completed. Will cast bullets be up to the task in a 22 Hornet?

[303Guy]

Thanks runfiverun. I'll give that a try once I'm set up again.


Will cast bullets be up to the task in a 22 Hornet?I don't see why not. I've only tried my poorly cast samples with mediocre results and gave up. I've always thought the hornet would be an ideal cast boolit rifle. If I do go through with my plan I will cut the throat to what I think will work with cast.

[altheating]

BRP 226-47 gr boolit and 9 gr of IMR 4227 when the rifles were hornets! Now that they have been reamed out to K Hornets 11 gr 4227 in all three of the K Hornets. Accuracy is good enough to shoot paint balls at 100 yards. I'm going to work on a load using the NOE 225107 37 grainer this winter, seeing how I have 27 pounds of them cast and waiting to be shot.

[leftiye]

Hilleye - You might someday achieve that accuracy with that velocity. Probly be a while and some major effort. Cast boolits are subject to a lot of different problems, and high velocity doesn't help any. Mostly, they are victim to problems that remind you of being too soft, they skid on the rifling, slump, gas cut, lead, are deformed by deposits and fouling in the bore, and so forth. Best you can do for a start is to follow the formula. After that there's a lot of thinkin', guessin', and tryin'. I only wanted 2000 fps, but my contender (like so many contenders) has an odd chamber. I ended up opening up the chamber neck, polishing the leade, and shooting .228 inch 225438s, and am thinking about using linotype. 50/50 WW/pure in a number of applications acts to be too soft unless heat treated. P.S. Lil Gun is your best friend in a Hornet, it giving top velocities with lower pressures than H110, and also being possible to load down without problems with ignition. Results in possible moderately high velocity with moderately lower pressures, a good combination for accuracy. Low pressure is your friend too in achieving accuracy

[303Guy]

Over on another site there was some discussion on the hornet with jaxketeds. These folks claimed better accuracy with small pistol primers and a tight crimp with the lighter bullets. That's because a small rifle primer will push the bullet out the case case before the powder takes off. I use Federal small rifle primers and believe they are sensitive and low powered (there is a comparison to be found on the 'net and the Fed primer is the 'weakest'). I also use a heavier bullet which I'm sure helps but I do also compress that powder which probably helps too. Maybe compressing the powder then filling the space with Dacron or maybe even wheat germ for a lower pressure load? The wheat germ or Dacron won't hurt the cast boolit any. I would think a fairly hard alloy would be a good place to start.

[StrawHat]

...These folks claimed better accuracy with small pistol primers and a tight crimp with the lighter bullets. ...

Small pistol primers and the 22 Hornet is a combination that I first learned about nearly 50 years ago. It worked then, it should still work now.

[telebasher]

I've had my best luck with AA1680 in my high velocity loads. For those with 225438 moulds you can use a 415 top punch to size with and it puts a nice little meplat on it that ups the smack factor noticeably. I just got my single cavity mould back from Erik that he hollowpointed, can't wait to thump a prairie dog. Hollowpoints really up the thump/splat factor!

[1Shirt]

SP primers make a world of accuracy difference in both my hornet and K-hornet. Best blt so far in 225438 HP. A pain to cast, but weighed to exact weights are a delight to shoot!
1Shirt!

[Littlewolf]

i shoot mostly the obsolete 225450 boolit in my H&R hornet loaded with imr 4227 and at 107 yards planting 10 rounds in a half dollar size group figured my cost reloading this lil bugger is down to aprox $0.03 per shot for powder, $0.04 per shot for primer, $0.0017 per shot on lead.
in 3 hours i have enough boolits cast from my single cav 225450 to keep me busy loading for the next 6 months. you want to know if cast boolits will be up to the task in a hornet well hilleye i'm punching neet holes in 1/8" steel plate w mine and exit holes on coyotes around 100 yards are about the size of a golf ball

[Euan]

I'd be happy if I was getting similar accuracy and velocity as .17HMR at 2/3 the cost. If I can better the performance of .17HMR (0.5MOA and 2565fps) it's a bonus, but I need a rifle capable of minute of rabbit's head at 200m.

The factory test target for the Anschutz 1730 indicates it's up to this level of accuracy with factory ammo so handloads should perform even better once load testing is completed. Will cast bullets be up to the task in a 22 Hornet?

G'Day Hilleye,
1st target on left CBE 225-42 gc loaded with 7.7 grains LilGun @2230fps. 2nd target, 225-107gc loaded with 9.6grains LilGun @ 2610fps. 3rd target, 225-107 loaded with 6.4 grains AP100 @ 2365fps. 4th target, Ranchdog 225-50gc, loaded with 7.7 grains Lilgun @ 2320fps.
The RD 225-50 has been the best killer, But I have no complaints with the others. Another load that I have used a lot in both my 22 K Hornets, was the CBE225-42 and Lyman 225-438 loaded with 8.2 grains LilGun @ 2360fps. All loads set off with small pistol primer. All shot @ 75 yards.
The current rifles are a CZ 527 1 in 12" twist rechambered to 22 K hornet & a BSA Martini Mod 6 chambered To 22 K Hornet with 1 in 16" twist. The CZ has fired over 25,000 Rounds of cast in the last 3 & half years. I have just had it relined with a 17 cal Walther liner and chambered to 17 Hornady Hornet. I had it out today for the 1st time,and shot 37 rabbits with it this evening.
Chers Euan.

[.22-10-45]

Hello, 303Guy. You might want to try paper-patching for that kind of velocity. I spent 1 1/2 shooting seasons shooting nothing but paper-patch in .22 Hornet & .222 Rem. Tried just about every type of paper available..including 100% rag from Craine to Velum & Teflon plumbers tape. Funny thing about patch in the small bores..not until I was well up into jacketed bullet charge weights did these things start to group. Never chrono'd them though.
My hat is off to you guys that have gotten the Lyman 225438 to shoot..for some reason, I never had any luck with that bullet. 225415..the older style of 49grs. from a single-cavity has always shot well in the Hornet. I finally bit the bullet, & had custom nose-pour moulds made by Fred Leeth at Pioneer Products. These are copies of the old Ideal 22636..both plain-base & G.C. Not until I made a tapered sizing die for my Lyman 45 did I achieve equal accuracy to best match jacketed loads. THis die will reproduce the same leade angle & dia. on the first band of bullet.

[303Guy]

I did actually paper patch a few rounds for the hornet. I never fired them! One day I'll get a round tooit.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-050F.jpg

Those leetil boogers are just so small! I have a young great-nephew .... [smilie=1:

303 Brit 180gr next to a 55gr 22

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-028F.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-181F.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-181F.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-182F.jpg

The first obstical is being able to cast or swage decent cores - same applies for shooting cast. Mmmm .... you got me thinking now.

[45 2.1]

You might want to try the 22 Nato group buy boolit listed in the Active GB section. It has shot well in a standard 16 twist CZ Hornet rifle.... stabile and accurate.

[trevj]

or actually buying cheap .22LR ammo and pulling projectiles appear to be the most cost effective options.

That, above, is proof you have not ever tried it. Not gonna work. Wrong size, to start with, wrong shape (rimfire bullets are heeled), and too soft to pull or use without damaging them beyond usefulness for other than maybe laughs at the range.

NOE has a 225107 mold on their for sale page. With a gas check, there were reports of getting decent varmint velocities and decent accuracy, in the group buy results forum.

For volume shooting on the cheap, the only thing I see the Hornet having an advantage in, is the low powder capacity. It makes up for that with more expensive brass, which is also more fragile, and more sensitive to load variations.

Can't beat a .22 Long Rifle for cheap volume shooting, when you can buy loaded rimfire ammo for about the price of primers for reloading with.

In the short term, it's cheaper to buy bullets than to load up on gear to cast your own. Gotta decide whether you like casting, or shooting, as a hobby, eh?

FWIW, I currently have a Hornet on a Martini, in the build process. Have 225107, 225438, 225415, and 225262 (IIRC) molds. Should be fun.

For cheap volume high velocity shooting, I have a .223 that I shoot jacketed from (for now) for which I have a lifetime supply of brass and a pretty good stash of reloading supplies for.

Can't reload for what I can buy a brick of rimfire for, though. I don't bother with the expensive RF calibers, either.


Cheers
Trev