Small game w/ .270 on pack in elk hunt?

[hookem3119]

I am doing a 7 day hike in back country elk hunt in Colorado's second season. It would be nice to be able to take small game to add a little variety to the diet of GORP and dehydrated foods, but carrying a second gun is not an option. Even a single shot .22 cricket or air pistol is more weight than I want to add.

I would like to work up some cast or jacketed .270 loads over the lightest charge I can get away with.

My goals are as little noise as possible (already hunting spooked elk on public land), and something that will shoot MOR (Moment of Rabbit) at 50 yds to the same point of aim as my current set up.

I have not done anything even close to this in the past, so would love suggestions. I am looking at 150 gr Montana cast bullets over about 14 gr of Trail Boss powder as a starting point. But no experience with cast.

http://www.montanabulletworks.com/270_Rifle.html
http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

[I'll Make Mine]

You're looking for something akin to "whisper loads" or "cat sneeze" loads. The basic method is to load either a light or heavy bullet over just enough very fast burning powder to get it out of the bore at a useful velocity. The smaller boolits are less likely to tumble (low velocity may not give enough RPM to stabilize a really long slug), and will have plenty of power for rabbits, squirrels, grouse/chukar, etc. -- you'll be shooting in the same power range as a .32 S&W, give or take.

The powders that commonly work well for this are fast pistol/shotgun powders like Bullseye and its cousins, fast enough to ignite consistently and burn completely even at low pressure; you could also try Trail Boss, since it'll fill the case enough not to be position sensitive like a tiny charge of less bulky slower powders can be.

The biggest difference you'll find with boolits as opposed to jacketed slugs is that you'll have much less of a problem with failure to exit the bore at the bottom end -- jacketed bullets are known to stick in rifles if you try to load much below 1000 fps, while a non-gas check boolit should be capable of consistency down to 800 or even lower, if you use a fast burning powder (Trail Boss probably can't get you that slow, I understand it shouldn't be used below about 2/3 of case capacity). If you're shooting what amounts to a pistol bullet, say under 100 grains in that size, I'd start with 3 grains of Bullseye, then adjust up or down to see what works.

Oh, and when testing loads in this class, be sure to take a cleaning rod to the range with you -- and listen carefully to your rounds; check the bore if anything doesn't seem right. Even with loads too weak to push the boolit to the muzzle, it's a bad idea to fire another one right behind... :violin:

[hookem3119]

That sounds like a good idea. I was thinking cast would be the safest bet, and Trail Boss would help solve the problem of case volume vs powder charge. I have seen some references to a load similar to what you describe, but nothing specific. People used old life jacket filler or dried corn meal over the powder as a filler, to keep the faster burning powder in contact with the primer.

Does anyone make a .277 caliber ball? That would solve the problem of stabilizing in flight. Would be great to find that in cast. How would a sabot do? Should exit the barrel pretty easily, but I wonder what kind of velocity they would need to straighten out...

[hookem3119]

Wadding material for whisper loads:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/07/01/an-interesting-use-for-wool/

[I'll Make Mine]

If you're using fast powder like Bullseye, you don't need filler -- the powder ignites easily enough and burns fast enough that it's not position sensitive (as long as you aren't firing vertically up or down, at least). If you're using Trail Boss, I'd recommend following the guidelines of using only charges ranging from 2/3 case capacity to not quite compressed (word is, don't compress Trail Boss). As for .277, that's a little bigger than #2 buckshot -- I'd suggest looking for #3 and sizing it in a push-through sizing die. Don't forget to slug your barrel to be sure of your groove size; .277 jacketed bullets means you've probably got .278-.279 grooves, and should use about a .280 in bare lead. Push a .300 diameter #3 buckshot through a .280 die with a convex tipped ram, and you'll get a bullet that looks like a very light pistol slug, just right for a whisper type load. Give it a shot of spray lube and load it up.

There *is* a commercial conversion cartridge, the Hammon Game Getter (no affiliation) that uses this kind of projectile, propelled by an off-center .22 Short blank power load made for concrete nailers -- it's on the expensive side, and takes a while to reload, but might be suitable for your application. It comes with one case, a push-through sizing die for the buckshot, and a few buckshot of the correct size; you buy the powder loads for it at the local hardware or home improvement store (Hilti is one well known brand).

I'd be inclined to leave the Game Getter to those who don't have a press and dies, but it is a low effort path to your stated goal. BTW, almost anything your .270 can do with jacketed bullets, it can do with cast boolits (with gas checks, for the full power stuff), cheaper and at least as accurately.

[Ole]

Why on earth would you want to make any noise unless you were taking a shot at your elk?

I mean geeze. Take a couple extra tubs of peanut butter with you if you think you'll get hungry.

[waksupi]

I'm thinking sling shot, if you want any elk left in the area.

[.22-10-45]

Why on earth would you want to make any noise unless you were taking a shot at your elk?

I mean geeze. Take a couple extra tubs of peanut butter with you if you think you'll get hungry.

Now that made me laugh Ole!...Peanut Butter..the 21 century pemmican!

[Whiterabbit]

I agree with everyone else.

That being said, FYI, when my hunting load is shooting to MPBR which is about 3" high at 100 yards, my trailboss loads shoot 3" low at 25 yards. It's about 12" load at 100. about.

[bruce drake]

http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=2050

Save the shot for after you bag your elk and you are waiting for your partner to tag out or at the very least, the end of the day as you are walking back to camp. The Elk will have forgotten it by the next day.

I've never used a 270 before but I have used Whelen's Small Game load for my 30-06 to take down squirrels when the season's overlapped.

Bruce

[Huntducks]

I don't know how much elk hunting you have done, but bulls or any elk don't wait around with any pressure or shooting. last you will see is that light a$$ going over the 3rd ridge, you going elk hunting or small game?

Big bulls don't get that way being stupid, and neither do lead cows.

Eat some pine nuts for varity.

[40Super]

I've been elk hunting in the Bitteroot Mtns,till the wolves killed every fawn for years:evil::evil:, anyway where was I?
Oh ya, we were hunting several miles away from camp and would shoot red squirrels and Gray Jays at camp,with .22 though.Even less than a 1/2mile away with peaks and valleys you couldn't hear the shots,The elk heards stayed there and we filled up (or close)usually. That said we wouldn't do any shooting(other than at elk) for the first couple days and not near any known herds.

What about paper patched bullets? anyone know if something like that work for him?

[hookem3119]

I'll Make Mine,

Thanks. That fits the bill nicely. I think I will order one of the kits. They are $40 and come with a "sizing die" to resize buck shot to the correct for caliber diameter. He will even custom machine for wild cat cartridges if you send him your die. Then I will load my own with resized shot. I don't already have a bench type loader with dies. My set up consists of digital scales, a primer tool, then I neck size and seat my bullets with an old school Lee Loader. I just reload one caliber for one gun so this is all I need. Plus it would be impossible to improve on the accuracy I am already getting (3@1/4").

[hookem3119]

I can appreciate everyone's thoughts on saving the bullet for the elk.

But there are a few considerations:
1. If you have ever actually packed in all your gear in winter, and camped where you hunted, you will know that you don't just toss in a extra pound of PB. I have spent a lot of time and effort to minimize the last few ounces from my kit. By the time you include the gun, winter clothing, binos', etc., that is a lot of weight to tote through the kind of places road hunters and base campers won't go.
2. We are already living off PB, jerky, and a little dried fruit exclusively. We plan our rations based on food that will average a yield of 130 calories / oz to make sure we are carrying as little weight as possible. We will also put out a few baited hook in beaver ponds. A squirrel or rabbit just allows us some margin of error if weather causes us to have to extend out trip. Plus a hot meal over an open fire (assuming no burn bans) is as good as it gets.
3. I know this all sounds crazy to normal people, but we don't even expect to see a legal elk that whole week anyway. At least not on public land. We are doing this for the trip ittself. Think of it as a camping trip, that we take durring elk season just in case. The elk is a bonus.
4. If I can get a load with a sound signature somewhere in the 22LR range, and only take shots at food, it shouldn't matter. A single shot in the mountains is not going to give away your location. And we would not be shooting while we were glassing and stalking anyway. We will have to periodically break camp to move, wash out our clothes, resupply water, etc. These are the times we would be taking small game.
5. We are hunting a very small patch of very rugged land where no one else is willing to go. It is between some of the most pressured hunting grounds in the state, and some of the most productive private ranches. Any elk moving through will not be site seeing. This is ambush hunting. We will see elk. Lots of them. They will just be in the valleys below us on private land.

[Larry Gibson]

hookem3119

I am looking at 150 gr Montana cast bullets

You'll need to flair the case mouth a bit to seat the cast bullets. Since your loading equipment apparently is limited this can be done with a tapered puch or with needle nosr pliers. Work the puh or end of the pliers nose into the sized case neck and open it just enough for the cast bullet to start in it for seating.

I would not use Trail Boss. I would switch to a very fast burning powder as already mentioned. Bullseye would be my choice. I have used Bullseye very successfully for just this type of load in different cartridges for many years. Start with 3.5 gr and work up in .3 gr increments to 6 gr. You should find a sweet spot in there where the load will shoot into 2"- at 50 yards.

The difference between using TB and Bullseye is that 1/3 to 1/2 the amout of powder will lesson the noise considerably for the same velocity given.

Larry Gibson

[hookem3119]

Think I am going to use the fast burning powders for sure. And go with sized #1 buckshot. A nearly round 40gr projectile is perfect for my needs. I am going to lube the shot. Are there any other precautions? Is there a gas check for a round ball? Patches? Do I even need it?

I may add a little wadding for peace of mind, but I don't think it is necessary. I used to have a single shot 12ga when I was a kid. We used to dump everything out of factory loads except for a little risidual powder, then add a few grains of bird shot back to it and cap it off with paper plate. That is probably more space than the case volume 270 brass. These worked like a champ. Had the report of a 22 short, and would fire the birdshot just fast enough to stick in plywood at about 20 yards. My mom still doesn't know about our little experiments. Luckily we didn't find out about secondary detonation the hard way! I also used to score the tips of lead tip 22 shorts and fire them into phone books to test the effects of my modifications on penetration and terminal ballistics. I did all of this indoors while my parents were at work, so the neighbors wouldn't hear. If they only knew!

[Bigslug]

You can get a 3" S&W Model 317 .22LR that only weighs 12.5 ounces. This gives you eight rounds of .22LR in whatever decibel level you desire, and eliminates any potential for wrong ammo in the rifle at the wrong time, or issues of "which trajectory was I thinking about again?"

Plus a handgun in the boonies is JUST A GOOD IDEA. There is always the possibility of predators smelling your kill while you are either dressing it out with your rifle leaning on a tree 40 feet away, or while you're packing it out with your rifle tied to your pack. And there is always the possibility of encountering a Two-Legged Kook, which are not nearly as rare as we would like to think.

But if you're set on this particular game, I would lean towards lighter bullets on the assumption that a bunny doesn't need a lot of killin', and the slightly higher speed might more closely follow your elk load's trajectory over the short distances you'll be shooting. In the .30-06 I use, I would probably go with a gas-checked .30 Carbine bullet. I'm sure there's a .270 equivalent.

[I'll Make Mine]

You can get a 3" S&W Model 317 .22LR that only weighs 12.5 ounces. This gives you eight rounds of .22LR in whatever decibel level you desire, and eliminates any potential for wrong ammo in the rifle at the wrong time, or issues of "which trajectory was I thinking about again?"

Plus a handgun in the boonies is JUST A GOOD IDEA. There is always the possibility of predators smelling your kill while you are either dressing it out with your rifle leaning on a tree 40 feet away, or while you're packing it out with your rifle tied to your pack. And there is always the possibility of encountering a Two-Legged Kook, which are not nearly as rare as we would like to think.

I see a serious contradiction in these two paragraphs. If predators disputing your kill and two-legged snakes are really an issue (and I won't argue they might be; there are in fact both timber wolves and mountain lions in much of the Rockies and Bitterroots now, on top of the coyotes that were never gone -- and let's not forget both black and grizzly bears), that .22 snub isn't the right gun for 'em. I wouldn't consider anything lighter than a full-power .357 Magnum for either kind of defense in that country -- and a .44 Magnum isn't any too much gun for bear.

Problem is, by the time you take one of those and enough rounds to bother, you've added four or five pounds to your load, which will seem like twenty or twenty-five by the time you've carried it up an aggregate total of ten thousand vertical feet in a day (climb over three ridges, each a little over three thousand feet high, and you've done that -- and that's not unheard of terrain for that country). Adding a Game Getter or a box of small game loads is a matter of less than a pound -- still more than is really desirable, but easily the lightest alternative.

The rabbit loads could/should be single loaded on top of a full magazine of hunting rounds -- that hurts follow up shot times for small game, but keeps the rifle ready to serve that defense role. If you discover you have to jack the rabbit load out in a hurry, you might lose the $40 Game Getter -- but that's better than coming up against a grizzly with a .22 snub, and half a pound lighter, too.

Mind you, a .270 is a little light for griz, IMO -- but if that's what you're carrying, it'll have to do.

[1Shirt]

Go back and read Col. Whelan! Good advice from times past!
1Shirt!

[Bigslug]

I see a serious contradiction in these two paragraphs. If predators disputing your kill and two-legged snakes are really an issue (and I won't argue they might be; there are in fact both timber wolves and mountain lions in much of the Rockies and Bitterroots now, on top of the coyotes that were never gone -- and let's not forget both black and grizzly bears), that .22 snub isn't the right gun for 'em.


Which brings us to a primary use for most handguns, which is to fight your way to a long gun - - which is this particular case would be in semi-close proximity. I never said it was the ideal choice, but far better than gouging thumbs into eye sockets, and probably not far beneath a mouse fart .270 load anyway. For a camp meat gun, it makes more sense (to me) than juggling two loads for the primary.

[dk17hmr]

I burn alot of Trailboss in my 30-06's. I have been able to get cast bullets out of my barrels at noise levels less than a springer air rifle. I ussally carry a couple of those loads with me when elk or deer hunting with the hopes of seeing a grouse or rabbit on the way back to camp, also to save expensive bullets if the big game animal is down and not getting up but hasnt given up yet when I get to it.

[hookem3119]

Good advice on th Col. I am familar with some of his writings about firearms, but only what I have come accross researching other subjects. I have to admit that I haven't made it a point to just read his books yet. But they are on the todo list.

No chance in mixing up the rounds. I am not going to be firing at any game I see while actually hunting elk. I will do my small game hunting around camp, and while attending to chores. If a 400 class Bull wonders into to camp while I happen to be lined up on a squirrel, or attending to nature for that matter, I'm sure my buddy will be willing to do the honors with his 270 WSM. He is bringing the fishing line and hooks, so no danger of a mix up there :D

Also, I hope to relize a net reduction in packed weight by doing this. A handful of small game loads, for a few less pounds of food. I can pack in 3500 calories per day instead of 4500, my usual for cold weather hiking. May not seem like a big deal, but that translates to 25% less food I have to carry on that first ascent above the treeline.

[I'll Make Mine]

A handful of small game loads, for a few less pounds of food. I can pack in 3500 calories per day instead of 4500, my usual for cold weather hiking. May not seem like a big deal, but that translates to 25% less food I have to carry on that first ascent above the treeline.

And that, as they say on TV, is priceless.

I'm with you on this one, Hookem -- whether you wind up with the Game Getter or loading down some regular cases, cutting your initial food load by 25% is all the incentive needed. You have to carry the rifle and hunting ammo -- adding the small game loads will reduce your total load-out by significantly more than any separate gun. The .22 revolver suggested above would weigh as much as the food it replaces -- nothing gained -- and, IMO, be less effective in bringing down rabbits or other small game, if you've done your homework in calibrating where the reduced loads shoot from your rifle.

[Bomberman]

I came across some 150 gr Nosler Partition bullets in a bunch of stuff I bought at an auction...not my usual Whitetail bullet for my .270 but figured they'd be good for popping gray squirrels on the ground if the deer were not cooperating. I loaded them up with 15 grains of Unique and was very pleased with the performance. Fairly quiet, no recoil, and one ragged hole at 50 yards. No sense in making it complicated...take whatever bullet (or boolit) you normally hunt with and load it down with the appropriate powder and give it a try. Once you find the load you're looking for take a red sharpie marker and color the casing...that way you won't get the loads confused. Good luck.

[1bluehorse]

City folk, :grin: There is no way I would hike "miles" into a somewhat (?) unknown area in Wyoming AND in winter AND reduce my food load and expect to make it up with squirrels and rabbits (or whatever). Take MORE food than you expect you'll need, otherwise you may either get very hungry, shorten your trip, or really get to like pine nuts and Juniper berrys. I've not been hunting in Wyoming, only here in the Pacific Northwest so my knowledge is obviously local. But around here "small game" can be downright scarce in most areas. (There ain't much meat on a chipmunk or Blue Jay)....thats probably why {most} folks that do that kind of hunt use pack animals. Good luck though, it does sound like a great trip..

[blackthorn]

+1---1bluehorse! If it were me and I cut my food budget by 25%---I would figure on going 25% hungrier!!! Anyhow---good luck and a safe trip, no matter what you decide.

[hookem3119]

Several good points, and I agree with most:

Won't forget the dried morrels. Would be great to find some wild mushrooms, but I am not familar with the local varieties. Eating wild shrooms is trickier than posting a question about about cast boolits on an internet forum :razz: And I do like pinenuts and juniper. Both would be great with my grouse...

I also like the idea of keeping the loads simple. Any FMJ over a few grains of fast burning powder would do the job. As would a full factoty loaded FMJ and a head shot. I don't plan on doing a lot of shooting, and I think that sound spooking game IS overrated, but no reason making more noise than I have to.

Finally, back country hiking is not for everyone. I enjoy it but don't advise it. Pack animals are great. So are outfitters, wall tents, RVs, and road hunting if that's what you are in to. My trips are probably obsessively planned out, with lots of redundancy. You plan for worse case scenarios, and hope for better. If you don't shoot game, or you get snowed in and have to spend 4 straight days inside your sleeping bag, you will be uncomfortable. But you are not going to starve. I could "survive" for weeks on the amount of food I carry in. Realistically, I could survive for weeks or indefinitely if I packed in no food. The greater dangers are exposure, mechanical injury, or illness. But thats why the Marines and boyscouts both advocate planning and preparedness.

[waksupi]

Don't forget if you hike in, if you shoot an elk, you have to hike out with it! I put myself in some pretty miserable situations when I was younger, doing such things.

[Bob Krack]

On the topic of survival food, as it were, some wire snares are usually more productive than any firearm and I promise you, they are a LOT quieter.

Pros and cons, good luck.

Bob

[Love Life]

Good luck on your hunt!

[1bluehorse]

Finally, back country hiking is not for everyone. I enjoy it but don't advise it. Pack animals are great. So are outfitters, wall tents, RVs, and road hunting if that's what you are in to. My trips are probably obsessively planned out, with lots of redundancy. You plan for worse case scenarios, and hope for better. If you don't shoot game, or you get snowed in and have to spend 4 straight days inside your sleeping bag, you will be uncomfortable. But you are not going to starve. I could "survive" for weeks on the amount of food I carry in. Realistically, I could survive for weeks or indefinitely if I packed in no food. The greater dangers are exposure, mechanical injury, or illness. But thats why the Marines and boyscouts both advocate planning and preparedness.

Well heck, if you can survive indefinitely without packin in food then why bother. That way you'll have plenty of room to pack out that Elk. Unless you figger on eating him there. Wish I had your backcounty survival knowledge, I pack close to 200 lbs in on my pack horse for a week stay. Course 100lbs of that is horse feed, there's generally not much grazing that time of year. Also they're on a high line most of the time...tried hobbles once, that only slowed them down a little. Picket pins are good, but easy to burn a hock when they turn..well, good luck..

[hookem3119]

This has gotten way off subject... and probably run its course. But to bring it back around, I have had several conversations with Brian Hammond, the maker of the Game Getter conversion kit mentioned earlier. He is a great guy, retired, and selling these out of his home in Alberta. I ordered one just to get the sizing tool he includes to resize buckshot to the correct caliber. Attached is a PDF of an article he sent me.

[Love Life]

Thanks for the link. That is neat.

[I'll Make Mine]

I think it's interesting that the author of the linked article claims a 7.62x39 can fire a unsized 0 buck with good accuracy -- that's a .310 round ball, which would be significantly undersized for a .311-.313 groove size typical of Russian rifles from 1891 through 2012. I recall reading that the Finns often fired an "undersize" ball on a cat-sneeze load -- I suspect it works because the smaller ball requires less power to drive (and hence makes less noise at the same velocity), while velocity and pressure are low enough to prevent leading.

That does it, I need to get a bag/can of 0 buckshot. I can make a sizing die easily enough (got some 7/8-14 rod already in house)...

[TCLouis]

Some information missing from what I wrote yesterday, so . . .

By second season so many people pack animals and quads will have passed through they will be skittish, but have been moved away from where they were in August before bow season started the inflow of hunting touristas.


I would never recommend such a thing, but some folks have bee known to use very little (make sure it is enough to get the boolit out of the barrel even in cold weather) Bullseye to do what you want.

I have ZERO experience with the 270 so can't be of any direct help.

[35remington]

O buck is most commonly sold, at least by Hornady in its swaged lead variety, in .320" diameter. I can supply a photo if you doubt. This would explain the fit in any .308 or .311" barrel.

[MT Gianni]

If you want food in your situation I would take 6-8 treble hooks with the spring inserts size 8 [baitholder], 25 yards of #6 test and 1/8th lb velveta cheese. [substitute power bait if desired].
Add some split shot depending on the current of the stream or beaver pond nearby, bait the hook, toss it out and tie it to a willow. Mark the bottom of the willow with surveyers tape so you can find it again. Set out 5-8 and check them twice a day. Cook the fish in a campfire wrapped in foil, which you packed in folded flat.
Having hunted Elk out of a backpack plan on one trip per quarter to pack it out and another for the antlers. Add in camp gear and it is two days of tough going. Good luck.

[fredj338]

I don't like firing my elk rig in elk cuontry, unless it's at elk. If you must hunt small game, consider a 22lr pistol. JMO, elk are tough enough to get close to w/o announcing you are there w/ a gunshot heard miles away. If you are taling survival hunting, well a 150gr 270 in a rabbits head is pretty final.

[Firebricker]

hookem, Welcome to the forum and good luck with you hunt. IMHO it's your hunt enjoy it any way you want. I'm not an elk hunter and never hunted west of the Mississippi River but if the elk are going to run away to the far corners of the earth at the sound of one gun shot it's amazing more than the first guy to shoot ever gets one. FB

[waksupi]

hookem, Welcome to the forum and good luck with you hunt. IMHO it's your hunt enjoy it any way you want. I'm not an elk hunter and never hunted west of the Mississippi River but if the elk are going to run away to the far corners of the earth at the sound of one gun shot it's amazing more than the first guy to shoot ever gets one. FB


Try it some time. The elk, and elk hunters aren't all in one pile, like the deer and deer hunters are back east. This is some biiiiiiig country. Elk can hear a whisper at 500 yards, and be gone five miles over two ridges. Gun shot works much further.

[Firebricker]

Waksupi, My point was more to the effect that this guy joined the forum because he wanted good info on reduced cast loads. And he got some good advice he also got a lot of unnecessary comments and criticism on his plans. Extra advise that is helpful and relevant is one thing but hey thats a dumb idea take some extra food is another. FB

[Dannix]

Elk can hear a whisper at 500 yards, and be gone five miles over two ridges.
Wow. Respect to the elk hunters here.

[1bluehorse]

Waksupi, My point was more to the effect that this guy joined the forum because he wanted good info on reduced cast loads. And he got some good advice he also got a lot of unnecessary comments and criticism on his plans. Extra advise that is helpful and relevant is one thing but hey thats a dumb idea take some extra food is another. FB

Well it is a dumb idea....

[nanuk]

i am glad that the areas I hunt are noisy, and gun shots are not uncommon

Elk, Moose and Deer move off the trails 150yds or so due to grouse hunters on quads.

if I can set up and call early.... before light, and the wind is right, the quadders push the moose to me!

if done right, life is good.


I understand using hunting as an excuse to camp.... did that for several years in a boat on a river.... tough slog, but loads of FUN

[M-Tecs]

My concern would be for point of impact of the elk load after firing a half of dozen shots with lead balls. I have never shot a lead ball out of a 270 but I have shot cast bullets followed by jacketed bullets.

After shooting lead my first shot point of impact difference is way more than I would accept in my elk load. If you decide to do this go to the range and fire a half dozen lead than one of your jacketed loads at whatever your sight in distance is. I have only done this once but my first shot after shooting cast without cleaning was 14 inches from normal point of impact at 200 yards.

[I'll Make Mine]

So, it sounds like it might be a good idea to have a lightweight cleaning kit (a bronze brush on a weighted string and wad of 0000 steel wool will get light lead/lube deposits out, and the brush can drag a patch, too), so every day actually elk hunting starts with a clean, cold bore, as it should.

[Dorado]

I don't know if it helps any. But a good slingshot can be used to take squirrels, rabbits and other small game. And it's silent. They don't weigh much. Less than all but the lightest pistols. You have a variety of ammo to use all around you. And can be more useful that you'd think. If you're stalking an elk and a squirrel is barking at you. A shot near the squirrel would scare it away and not startle the elk. I've done it several times while deer hunting. Just something to consider.

[BD]

Hookem, I don't know where you're headed, sounds a little like GMU 371. If you're not great with a thrown rock, I'd go for a sling shot. Fool Hens, (blue grouse), are the easiest good eating I've found above 7,500 ft in CO. If you're good you can stalk and grab them. Slingshot is easier. Not much for wolves or big bears, and seven days in the self defense requirement against two legged critters is gonna be pretty minimal. A seven day walk in hunt sounds like a noble enterprise, but you may be sorry if you're successful.
BD

[MT Gianni]

So, it sounds like it might be a good idea to have a lightweight cleaning kit (a bronze brush on a weighted string and wad of 0000 steel wool will get light lead/lube deposits out, and the brush can drag a patch, too), so every day actually elk hunting starts with a clean, cold bore, as it should.

I believe that every hunt should start with a fouled bore not a clean one. Not dirty mind you , but having previous residue and lube of the load that you are shooting. This gives you an impact much closer to your next two shots than a clean bore does. As far as a cast load I would be concerned, my 243 load drops 38 clicks @ 100 yards from jacketed, my 308 29 clicks. The OP wanted a 50 yard load with cast while zeroed with his jacketed load. I might get there with a few cartridges but not many I would hunt Elk with.

[blackthorn]

I'll Make Mine said "So, it sounds like it might be a good idea to have a lightweight cleaning kit (a bronze brush on a weighted string and wad of 0000 steel wool will get light lead/lube deposits out, and the brush can drag a patch, too), so every day actually elk hunting starts with a clean, cold bore, as it should. "

If you are taking fishing line with you you do not even need the "weighted string", just double over the fish line, shove it through the bore, put a patch in the "loop" at the fold-over and pull it back through the bore. "Quick and easy cleaning kit."

[40Super]

Are there any plated buckshot available? It would solve any leading possibilities.

[hookem3119]

I got the game getter in the mail. Will take it to range this afternoon and post results. I will be firing some full jacketed loads after. So all the dirty details to follow.

I don't think leading will be an issue. A single 40 gr lead ball at velocities around 1000 fps shouldn't shed a whole lot. But we will see. #1 buck is kind of hard to find locally though. I couldn't even find it in bulk or factory loads. If the range results warrant further testing, I will have to order some.

We are not in unit 371, and I would rather not mention where we are hunting, just because I really don't care to here all the "friendly advice" I'm sure I would get from people about how there are better tracts :takinWiz:

[40Super]

Or if you do good, next year you'll be standing shoulder to shoulder with other hunters.[smilie=s:

[hookem3119]

Range session was a bust. The kit came with a handful of buckshot. I stupidly assumed these were already sized. Wrong. I didn't have anything with me to use as a rod to push the shot through the sizer at the range. So I just had a normal practice session. It will be next week before I can get back out there and post the results.

[hookem3119]

Finally got to try out the Game Getter adapter. The results were pretty impressive.

At 25 yards, using the "brown" blanks, I got a 3" 5 shot group. 3 of the shots were within 1.3". And they were hitting at exactly the same POI as my full 140 gr elk loads.

The "green" blanks were 2.8" 5 shot @ 25 yards, with 4 of the 5 inside 1.7". Also same POI as hunting loads.

Best part: It wasn't as load as the kid's .22 LR that was sitting next to me. Hard to say how "quiet" exactly with earmuffs on. About as much noise as a high power air rifle.

According to the data supplied wiith the kit. The brown fired the 40gr buckshot at 875 fps, the green at 1015fps.

[I'll Make Mine]

According to the data supplied wiith the kit. The brown fired the 40gr buckshot at 875 fps, the green at 1015fps.

The groups are a little on the large size for grouse, but if you can find out what's causing the fliers (first likely suggestion: damaged shot after sizing), either one will provide a welcome change from freeze-dried backpack food. Now for a source of #1 buckshot (lifetime supply for $30 plus shipping at one online vendor I've seen).

[hookem3119]

The sized balls were far from pristine. Pretty ugly actually. And I din't take a lot of care putting them into the case. Just stuck them in finger tight and more or less straight. One of the balls came out looking like a shotgun slug. Elongated, round nose, and flat back. This was because i used a variety of make shift rods at the range to push it through the sizing die.

But now I'm thinking I may be able to use some lead fishing weights, the bullet shaped worm weights, and approximate a very small cast flat based bullet.

The sizer is not really a sizing die. He calls it a swage. It is just a section of steel rod with a funnel shaped hole machined through it. The large opening is .325" and the small side for my kit is .272".

I was working up a new load before I tested the game getter, and forgot to save a couple of rounds to see how leading from the buck shot would affect POI in my hunting rounds. I'll look for signs of lead when I clean the barrel tonight. Since the diam of the shot is not wide enough to engage the rifling, and given the fact that I used a little lube, and the velocities are slow, I don't expect lead fouling to be an issue.

I'm sure that I could just load some cases with a mag primer and one of the shot and do as well. And the results are have already met my original goals. But the truth is, it's just fun to play with. Now that I can fire my 270 in the back yard, I probably will experiment with it some.

[I'll Make Mine]

A magnum primer won't give anything like the velocity of the brown load, never mind the green -- in fact, there's every likelihood you'll wind up having to drive the shot out of the bore with a rod. If you have a lathe, you could make up a simple push-through die and punch to fit your reloading press and get more consistent shot, but if you exercise a little care in sizing the shot with the swage provided, you can probably still cut those groups in half -- which is perfectly adequate for grouse, never mind rabbits.

[FN in MT]

Why on earth would you want to make any noise unless you were taking a shot at your elk?

I mean geeze. Take a couple extra tubs of peanut butter with you if you think you'll get hungry.

What He said!

Many years back I hunted a TREMENDOUS trophy area here in MT. As I was trying to close the distance down on
probably the largest bull I ever had seen, or have seen since then...some F'n idiot over the hill from me was blasting away with his sidearm at some grouse.

Of couse the elk left....I walked up the hill and heres this IDIOT with a grouse thats half blown apart...grinning at me with his .357 in hand. We had a few words (putting it mildly) and he walked away.

I never saw any decent bulls...or any other hunters., the next FIVE days . Imagine the LUCK!

WHY would anyone would want to screw up THEIR chances or someone elses...???

FN in MT

[10x]

The Hammond game getter may be the answer.
Brian has been making these for years, they work well, and are quieter than a air gun.
You carry the getter, .22 ramset blanks, and a bag of swaged .27 bullets.
http://www3.telus.net/gamegetter/

And elk don't spook at the sound of a distant shot, at least not the elk I have watched. One or two in the herd may look up.

[I'll Make Mine]

The Hammond game getter may be the answer.

Seems that way -- OP got one, and likes it... :)

[Griz44mag]

Ever thought about something like an AR-7 survival rifle from Henry?
Breaks down and it all stores in the stock. VERY lightweight. The stock holds the receiver, barrel and 3 loaded mags as well, and it will float if you drop in the lake. It's accurate enough to pick off ground squirrels at 50 yards. Fits into a wee bit of a corner in either of my backpacks. And being 22LR, it's perfect for small game. The extra weight of ammo for your elk gun would almost be the same as the AR-7 and it's ammo. Just a thought. I really like mine, and wouldn't think about going without it.

[Oregon Coot]

The Hammond Game Getter works very, very well. I have them in 7-08, 270 Win, 7MM RM & a custom one they did for me in 338-06 IMP. Quiet, accurate with a lot of grouse getting power.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n302/coot_03/gamegettertarget338_061_edited-1.jpg

[Captain_Howdy]

well I don't know what the hunting regulations are in the area where you are going to hunt but where I live it is against the rules to hunt squirrels with a centerfire rifle regardless if it has an adapter or not. I wouldn't want the game warden to find me out in the woods with a squirrel and a centerfire rifle only. In my opinion, for me anyway, there is only one option:

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k632/Captain_Howdy1/squirrel.jpg

These handy little devices also work very well to provide food and limited protection in a survival situation. Not powerful by any means but the one pictured can easily lay down very fast and very accurate firepower. And needless to say, if used on small game, there will be game left to eat unlike if you blast it with that 270!

First and foremost though I wish you well on your trip! And hope you bag the big one!!!

[40Super]

Same with grouse here,.22lr also though(not squirrels).

Nice MarkIII, I have the 8in. target/comp M II