Newbie Questions

[BABore]

Just got done casting up some Lyman #457643 boolits for my 450 Marlin. Over two casting sessions I made about 350. On my 2nd session I had less than a 4% reject rate, so I must have read enough stuff here. Everything was ladle poured. I plan to shoot these unsized with Alox liquid lube. Some of the data I got from http://www.gmdr.com/ suggests using WW 231 at 11 to 13 grs. No fillers or anything were recommended. Does anyone have any opinions on this load?

I also just ordered a Lyman #311041 mold for shooting in my 30'06 and buddy's 30'30. Any recommended loads using WW231, Unique, or 2400 for 1,200 to 1,500 fps loads. Unique and 2400 are listed in my Lyman cast book. I'm planning to put on the gas checks and run the boolits thru a Lee sizer. I'm assuming I have to lightly lube them first. Following that I'll start lubing them with liquid Alox. I also got some Rooster HVR to pan lube with just in case.

One final really stupid question. I'm ladle casting, the 311041 mould is a two-cavity. I'm assuming I pour one cavity and let the sprue run away from the second cavity, pour the second cavity and let the sprue run into the first one. Is this correct?

[David R]

I have found out 12.5 of unique works well for my two groove 06. I tried 16 grains of 2400, it worked well too. It seems the gun prefers one boolit more than it cares for which powder. Never shot a thuty thuty.

Just pour one boolit, when its full, pour the other one. I find it easier if the sprue is one piece for easy removal.

[Bass Ackward]

1. Just got done casting up some Lyman #457643 boolits for my 450 Marlin. Some of the data I got from http://www.gmdr.com/ suggests using WW 231 at 11 to 13 grs. No fillers or anything were recommended. Does anyone have any opinions on this load?

2. I also just ordered a Lyman #311041 mold for shooting in my 30'06 and buddy's 30'30. I'm planning to put on the gas checks and run the boolits thru a Lee sizer. I'm assuming I have to lightly lube them first. Following that I'll start lubing them with liquid Alox. I also got some Rooster HVR to pan lube with just in case.

3. One final really stupid question. I'm ladle casting, the 311041 mould is a two-cavity. I'm assuming I pour one cavity and let the sprue run away from the second cavity, pour the second cavity and let the sprue run into the first one. Is this correct?


BA,

(I feel like I am adressing myself)

1. Forget double charges. With that small amount in that L A R G E case, you could quintuple charge and not notice it. I like more case fill myself for safety sake.

2. People that usually hate liquid Alox usually hate it because they are trying to make one bottle last a lifetime. Lube your bullets and let them dry. Then put on your GCs on. The lube makes it easier to do that without shaving lead and the gooey stuff acts like a glue in the low spots.

Then lube again. When dry, run them thru your sizer which will push excess into the lube grooves. Then lube again for a third time to cover the bare spots. If that still isn't enough lube to prevent leading, buy some motor mica. (Midway has it) Put your bullets in a plastic baggie and add just a little mica (1/4 teaspoon) and roll your bullets around in it. It will act as lube and prevent sticky bullets besides.

3. Oh boy, you have asked one here. Who knows. You may end up having to stand on one leg and cross the other above your knee while whistiling Bonanza with your hands moving in and out while the dipper is in contact the blocks. Each mold is different and may require some absolutely insane techniques. But chances are you should start out simple and just increase either heat or casting speed at first until things start coming out OK. IF that doesn't work out, you are on your own.

This way, your family doesn't schedule you for psyiatric evals. It can be embarrassing.

[Buckshot]

............BABore, W231 would be suitable for the light loads you're mentioning, although they may not be low pressure. I don't know. Someone with a program might be able to supply that data. That website didn't show very impressive accuracy results, with groups all the way up to 12" (30-30). Of course they were also shooting a plain based BB slug too.

Shooting a GC design as the Ly 311041 is, I'd lean more toward the Unique, 2400, 4227 loads myself. But that's just a personal preference and not backed up by any experimentation, extensive or otherwise. I have used W231 in a 35 Rem shooting the Lee 358-148WC, and at 50 yards all shots touched each other.

One thing his charts do show with the 450 Marlin and the fast powders he's using is how bullet mass affects accuracy. These fast powders are high energy and only a little more or a little less makes a large pressure impact. His 3 charts for the 3 bullet weights, 300, 350, and 405 show good velocity increase for each charge increase. Linear increases, and probably averages for 5 shots or so.

Then you look at the accuracy charts, as the boolit weight increases the width of the groups sizes narrows, as the up and down movement flattens with the heavier slugs. Probably what this is, is increased energy to engrave, simple mass, increased bearing surface (friction), and a slower initial engraving. All have a tendancy to smooth out the difference in initial pressure inconsistancies. My basic thoughts for recommending the Unique, 2400, 4227 powders.

For using TL with GC slugs I seat the GC, then TL twice and size.

For multi-cavity moulds I tip the mould down away from me. Fill the first cavity and then push the mould in to fill the next. Hot lead from the 2nd and subsequent cavities runs over the previous. This is using a bottom pour furnace.

.............Buckshot

[BABore]

I got that 311041 mold last night. Cleaned and deburred it before dinner. I sat around afterwards watching the News and just couldn't take it any longer. Went down and fired up the burner for a tryout. Took a bit to get the hang of things working with two small cavities so close to each other. Finally got it down by filling the front cavity with the mold tipped forward finishing with a rather small sprue. As soon as it started to solidify, I turned the mold 90, mated the ladle, and tipped it upright to fill the second cavity, then allowed the sprues to run together. Seemed to work pretty well. I had to be real careful to not allow any runnings get into the second unfilled cavity prior to filling it. It took a while to get the cavity closest to the handle hinge to drop good boolits. Uping the temp. didn't seem to make a difference. It just took longer to get that section hot enough, I guess. Anyway, I ended up casting about a 100 boolits with about 20% rejects. Some were just technique, but most were partially rounded bases from the second cavity.

[Wayne Smith]

Bass Akward, you forgot the invocation to Celtic gods that comes before the whistling of Bonanza, or Oh Shennandoah, depending on where you live!

I have the problem of overflow into the second cavity on my two hole .41 Colt mold. Hasn't been a problem as yet, maybe because I typically cast rather hot and pour fast. I'll have to try holding the mold at an angle next time I make some.

Just got my first Lyman 4 cavity off eBay, so I'll watch that one when I use it and see how it goes.

[David R]

I just pour into the first hole. If it runs into the second, as long as the mold is hot, I keep a goin. Works for me.

Try pouring the rear hole first. It seems to me you are being too careful and thinking too much. Just pour em and see what happens.

[REDTAIL]

stupid question ? is this motor mica powder the same stuff that is sold on some web sites as the base powder used for makeup ?

[BABore]

Boy, you did some digging to resurrect this post. Don't know about motor mica being used in cosmetics. I quit using them a long time ago.:D

I got a can of motor mica, from Ballistic Products, for loading high-end shot shell loads. Tried it on LLA coated boolits and it works great. No more stickies. A 1 lb jar will last you a lifetime. Maybe even longer as you will learn that LLA is like kissin your cousin. Real lubes are much better and more accurate.

[44man]

My oh my, c'mon guys! [smilie=b: Put the ladle in the sprue plate hole, tip the mold up, hold it for a while until the shrinking boolit pulls all that is needed, tip off the ladle. Let the first sprue just set and do the same with the second. What is this dribbling into the second hole all about?????? :!:
A .450 Marlin with 231?????????
Get busy with Varget, 4198, 322, 335, 3031 and make that thing sing. That long 400 gr boolit will suck with light loads.
Dump the LLA snot and use a real lube! :kidding:
OK, I am wide open, but prove me wrong! [smilie=w:

[Bass Ackward]

Who's this trainee .... BABore.

We already got one don't we? :grin:

[RU shooter]

For W231 in the 30-06 I use 7.5-12 grs depending on what boolit I am using . Works as well accuracy wise as Unique just a bit harder to find the sweet spot .

Tim

[Boomer Mikey]

Boy, you did some digging to resurrect this post. Don't know about motor mica being used in cosmetics. I quit using them a long time ago.:D

I got a can of motor mica, from Ballistic Products, for loading high-end shot shell loads. Tried it on LLA coated boolits and it works great. No more stickies. A 1 lb jar will last you a lifetime. Maybe even longer as you will learn that LLA is like kissin your cousin. Real lubes are much better and more accurate.

I guess REDTAIL did a search on motor mica to bring this thread up to the top... 2005... a long time ago BABore.

+1 on the LLA comment... I use it for some applications but certainly on boolits NOT! It's a pretty good bore preservative or conditioner for long term storage.

I do sprinkle a little motor mica on my lubed boolits if I'm going to store them for a while to keep them from sticking to everything including each other.

I wonder how your 450 Marlin loads worked out Bruce?

Boomer :Fire:

[Buckshot]

..................I like seeing these old ones come back up. Just proves to me folks are using the search function or are simply reading back through the pages. Not the slightest problem at all resurrecting one from 3 years ago. :-)

...............Buckshot

[BABore]

Actually that 231 load worked out pretty good for a plinker. As I remember, I leaded the snot out of my bbl with the undersized Lyman 457643 boolits. Lapped the mold out of round, then Beagled it back to round, and got a 0.462 boolit....... finally. Lubed with the snot and seated over a bit of WW 231, it would group them in one big hole at 50 yards. No vertical stringing either there 44Man. :takinWiz:

After about 3,500 cast boolits through that 450 bbl, I'm getting it replaced with a 20 inch, Montana tapered octagon bbl with 1 in 22 twist. Should be picking it up this week.

I gave up on the ladle casting thing. After reading about all the insane casting techniques here, I decided to just use a big pot-o-lead and dip the whole mold in. When the bubbles quit coming up, she's full.:grin:

[44man]

Babore, that one got me going this morning, I spit out my coffee again! [smilie=l: Soon, the keyboard will need washed again! :grin:
Good to hear 231 works. Just seems a shame to shoot so much lead for plinking, I would want to BLAST some animals with that thing.

[BABore]

Babore, that one got me going this morning, I spit out my coffee again! [smilie=l: Soon, the keyboard will need washed again! :grin:
Good to hear 231 works. Just seems a shame to shoot so much lead for plinking, I would want to BLAST some animals with that thing.


Well, your getting better. Your dentures didn't fly out this time.:grin:

I only shot a hundred or two of them plinker loads before moving on and up. I spent considerable time and effort trying to get that Marlin bbl to shoot well. Below an inch that is. I was stuck with a 0.4585 groove, a straight 0.465 throat, and a chamber that would only accept a 0.462 boolit. Must have made 5 molds for it. Tried everything possible. Hard boolits, soft boolits, PP boolits, fast, slow, every suitable powder. On occassion it would go sub-inch, but a flyer was always in the wings. Only held on as long as I did cause the guide gun is just plain fun to shoot. That bbl will be a tent stake now. Come Friday, I get to start the process all over again. [smilie=w:

I did manage to drop a couple deer, caribou, turkey, and several lesser critters with it.

[44man]

:mrgreen: I have to glue my dentures in for you guys!
I have the same trouble with my Marlin .44 mag. I shoot rings around it with a revolver.
I wish I had the money to get a barrel change. I wish I could just buy a barrel to fit.
I have a new lathe and just might have to try it myself some day. But even buying chamber reamers is expensive.

[Bass Ackward]

I wish I could just buy a barrel to fit. But even buying chamber reamers is expensive.


I just have to stop the whining about this 44.

Barrel here:

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/productdetail.aspx?id=324064

Rent the darn reamer:

http://www.4-dproducts.com/displayitem.php?rowid=256&tname=rental

[BABore]

Naw, that won't work. With a new bbl and chamber, 44Man would then be pissin & moanin about how he has to make a new mold cause none of his current boolits would chamber cause of the tight dimensions.:roll::-D Me thinks he want a little faster twist that 1 in 36 too.


I just got back from the Gun Smith's that's doing my new 450 bbl. He wanted dummy rounds so he could get the throat cut to them. I had previously measured his custom reamer which was made to the tight side of SAAMI specs. Everything looked to be dimensionally correct with a proper cast boolit throat. He was a bit taken aback when I told him to just cut the chamber for proper headspace and leave the boolit fit to me.

[Bass Ackward]

He was a bit taken aback when I told him to just cut the chamber for proper headspace and leave the boolit fit to me.


Yes.

Boy, you sure learn fast for a newbie. :grin:

36 twist is OK and the rifling height is good enough specially when you consider the $85 price. If you need more velocity to compensate for less RPM, you leave a longer barrel. :grin: