Ballistics software

[AZ-Stew]

I posted this as a part of another thread but didn't get any responses, probably because the thread wasn't heavily read. So, let's see what happens when I post it as a new thread. Comments? Suggestions?

I've been far less happy with the ballistics software packages that are available. They seem to be geared toward Joe Average hunter who's too lazy to look up the ballistics tables for factory ammo in catalogs or on the net. Most of those currently available were written to run on a 486 processor-based computer running DOS or Windows 95. They will allow you to input data from external sources, but it must be done manually - very slow and tedious. So far, I haven't found a ballistics software package that is designed specifically for the handloader/experimenter. I'd like to see one that does NOT have any factory ammo look-ups or bullet or cartridge drawings in it, allows direct importation of chronograph data (this can be done from a Chrony with an accessory cable), allowing the data to be input both into the analysis/graphing section and to a log for annotation and later retrieval, and the ability to overlay and compare graphs of various loads. I would appreciate a look-up of ballistics coefficients of all currently produced J-bullets (not just one manufacturer), with the ability to add new listings as product lines evolve and to allow us to add data for various cast bullets. The software should include a comprehensive shooter's log and a section where we can catalog the contents of our safes. Any suggestions? If I knew Visual Basic I'd write my own program.

Regards,

Stew

[Bigjohn]

I can't help you with exactly what you want as the two I use only have manual input as far as I know.

I use RCBS LOAD and Oehler Ballistic Explorer, both work in Windows XP Pro.

John

[MakeMineA10mm]

Well, I haven't used it yet, but I'm looking hard at NECO's QUICKload 3.2/3.3. This has most of the features you are looking for, although it does have some features you don't like, such as drawings and all current jacketed bullets' information built in for easier calculation. There is a manual input as well, and it looks like their chronograph plugs into it, so that you can do the automatic input thing you were describing.
See it here: http://www.neconos.com/details3.htm

I wanted to get Oehler's Ballistic Explorer along with a Model 35P chronograph, but I met Dr. Ken Oehler at the NRA Annual Meeting in St. Louis last month, and he told me they are no longer making the 35P. I was shocked and asked why, and he said it had to do with finding a suitable, reliable printer. I told him I'd take one without the printer, because I planned on using Ballistic Explorer and having the chrono data automatically saved. He said EXTREMELY few people bought that option....... His wife did put me on a list of people who would like to get a 35P, as they will consider re-starting manufacture, if they have enough interest to warrant designing/making their own printer, or searching for another printer vendor... :roll:

[VTDW]

You might try sending Ranch Dog a PM. He uses what is probably the best around as he is gathering all sorts of ballistic data and doing strain guage testing to go along with his new boolot mould business but I do not remember the name.

Dave

[jimofaz]

AZ-Stew,
Check out Tom Meyer's software at: http://www.uslink.net/~tom1/

It's the best cast bullet orientated ballistic software I've ever used. I live door to you in Chandler, AZ. so your welcome to come over for a demo if youd like. No, I won't make you a copy but you can at least take it for a good test drive. Jim

[AZ-Stew]

As usual, my writing style causes people to slightly misinterpret what I intended to write. My fault, not yours.

I have several ballistics programs, including Ballistics Explorer and the RCBS program, which is why I'm looking for something different. I haven't tried the Sierra program, nor have I tried the NECO Quickload. I'll have to look at the NECO program. I haven't heard anything about it until now. Thanks for the suggestion, MakeMine.

As to the cartridge and bullet drawings, they don't affect the performance of the program, but they don't add anything that can't already be found in my reloading manual library. I'd rather the programmers concentrate on making a straighforward, user-friendly program that does ballistics calculations from imported chrono data, and graphs and provides a way to analyze and compare data than spend their time cataloging cartridge/bullet drawings and factory load data which can be found elsewhere.

In addition, I'm not looking for a computerized loading manual. I want to analyze the data I collect with my chrono during my shooting sessions. Therefore, cartridge, bullet and powder data are superfluous. I would like to see, as a part of the data logging section (database), the ability to store or link to photos of my targets so that a visual representation of the groups can be retrieved at a later date or can be compared with others.

My comment about the operating system that the programs were written to run on does not mean I believe they will only run on those OSs. I work for Intel, so I'm reasonably computer literate (again, my fault for not explaining better). My point was intended to be that some of these programs don't take full advantage of the tools available in the current OSs. Screen resolution is poor (16-bit color) in the older programs and simple tools such as cut 'n' paste aren't included. The programs I've seen just aren't up to date.

Anyway, I'm still open to suggestions and I'll look at the NECO program.

Thanks and regards,

Stew

[Ranch Dog]

Greetings Stew...

I have been using RSI's Shooters Lab (http://www.shootingsoftware.com/ballistics.htm) for several years but have been switching all my recent records to Precision Ballistics and Records (http://www.tmtpages.com/index.htm#BPCB) offered by forum member Tom Myers of TMT Enterprises.

I believe that Shooter Lab has all the features that your two posts indicate you were looking for particularly storing targets and the ability to accept downloaded chronograph data. The targets are stored graphically by placing the target against your PC's screen and clicking the bullet holes. It is a very neat and practical solution for someone that shoots a lot. It is priced at $100 and a demo is available through the referenced link.

As I mentioned, I have switched to Precision Ballistics and Records. Where Shooters Lab fell short was it's ability to analyze loads against one another despite having all the data and that is where Precision Ballistics and Records excels. Through the information entered on the Target Records and Target Analysis pages loads are compared against each other. The chrony data and target coordinates must be manually entered but I haven't found that a problem. I am shooting and storing about 200 to 250 shots a week while developing my charge graphs for the boolits dropped from my molds. A demo for PB&R isn't available but but Tom has done an excellent job of dealing every aspect of his software on his web site.

Precision Ballistics and Records is offered in modules, you can buy what you want. The basic record keeping and complete ballistics package is $41.50 when downloaded on line. This module does not offer the ability to print load records (ballistic tables can be printed) but the Cartridge Box Label Printing (http://www.tmtpages.com/box_label.htm) module does this and much more. It is offered for $17.50 when downloaded on line. Precision Ballistic and Records offers some basic firearm data storage but a more complete Firearm Records (http://www.tmtpages.com/printarms.htm) module is available for $26.10 when downloaded. All three of these modules work perfectly with one another, seamlessly sharing information. The complete package downloaded as three modules is $85.10.

I didn't want to open Shooters Lab every time I needed to store a target so I downloaded Group Size Calculator (http://rawilson.net/shareware/Gsc/index.html) for $10.50 and use it as the program that scans and stores all my targets. I'm also using it this year to scan and store all the Postal Match targets I receive. I take the shot coordinates from this program and enter them in the PB&R Target Records page. I haven't taken the time to figure out if I could do it with bites and bits but with it only takes a few minutes to transfer the coordinates manually with the volume of shooting I'm doing. The shot coordinates displayed on Group Size Calculator are Horizontal then Vertical and PB&R uses Vertical then Horizontal so I must make sure I enter the correct strings of data. That hasn't been a problem either. With this software, the targets must be scanned so that means sitting down with the PC connected to a scanner. The total cost for the software setup I'm using would be $95.60 vs. the $100 of Shooting Lab.

By the way, I'm a shooting software nut so I have most of the packages offered. My choice runs as I've stated PB&R with the stand alone Group Size Calculator. I'm now to the point of having 100 or better loads stored for each single caliber that I'm doing the pressure trace work on and PB&R does a magnificent job of searching and presenting the records I want recalled. Shooters Lab was falling short here with the volume of records I had stored. I had some trouble with the load record search features that I was never able to resolve. At the same time, I never contacted RSI for help in resolving that issue.

I can only see three features that I would like to see added to PB&R. The ability to keep data on the number of rounds of a given load that I reload and the ability to present that as an inventory would be nice. In the same light, I would like to record the number of rounds of a given inventory shot with a given firearm. I recall Mr. Myers indicating that this feature would be available in the next version of the software. Right now, I just store the information in the notes section of each load and with each firearm record. I would also like to see the program have it's own group size calculator like that offered through the program mentioned above. Clicking on a bullet hole would enter the shot coordinates in the appropriate spot. Finally, an interface for the chronograph data would be great. Of course, these last two items effect what you want addressed in your software search but I have tried to indicate how I'm dealing with these issues in the text above.

I use the CED chronograph which has it's own software program. The same here, I just haven't taken the time to figure out how I might be able to paste the chrony data directing into the Target Records of PB&R. It might not be possible.

Stew, I hope some of this information might be of help. Tom seems a little shy when I comes to promoting his software here, but he shouldn't be as it is a first class system so may be he will chime in!

[AZ-Stew]

Michael,

Thanks you very much for your detailed response. It was VERY helpful.

I had a couple of short e-mail exchanges with Tom yesterday. He told me he had flirted with the idea of direct chrono input, and to quote him, "but decided that it would be too confusing for those that are not as computer literate as others." Personally, I'd like to see it as a "grayed out" tab that can be accessed by those who do consider themselves computer literate and are willing to pony up another $5 or so to access the feature. This would seem to satisfy both groups, but I'm not the one doing the programming, so I don't know how much of a hassle it would be to implement.

He also said, "Two separate modules are in the development stages. One that provides all the basic ballistic and record keeping in a very basic package and the other for those that are really into computers, component inventory and graphics."

I very much like his concept of separately purchased modules, allowing the shooter of modest means (probably most of us here) to assemble a sophisticated shooting data management system as we can afford it, rather than having to put off a single large purchase until we get a lottery hit.

Again, thanks for the info. I'll take a closer look at Tom's offerings and at the Shooter's Lab software.

Best regards,

Stew