The leaded bore...

[montana_charlie]

Back when I decided to get a rifle which would only be used with cast bullets, I read everything I could find that touched on any part of that activity. I found it remarkable how many shooters were troubled with leaded bores, and was even more astounded at the many recommendations for getting it out.
I even collected links to several articles about lead removers similar to the Outer's unit, just in case I ever had the problem.

I decided my best course of action was to make certain I never leaded a barrel...but I got 'trapped' into it while trying some 'grooveless' bullets. That took me back to reading all of those 'proven' procedures.

I tried some of them with varying degrees of success, and I carefully stayed away from those (call them) 'instant de-leading' methods.

During that first major cleaning odessey (took three days) I tried most all of the standard solvents and implements that are produced for cleaning guns. I did not try materials created for scouring skillets, removing old paint, or burnishing cabinet hinges.

I think I succeeded (in that first job) because I exhausted my small supply of 'ancient' Hoppe's #9, and ran so much material through the barrel that the lead simply eroded away. But I finally got it clean.

Since then, I have become a bit more experienced in recognizing when lead is present, and even putzed around and settled on a fairly efficient way of getting it out. Having read about the 'tight patch' on BPCR sites, that proved to be an 'answer' for me after using a soaked patch wrapped on a bronze brush to 'break things loose'.
But, I now find that I was just 'half-stepping'.

Dan Theodore finds time to experiment with just about every aspect of shooting that a person may have a question about. His posts in this thread ( http://shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8804 ) have filled in the blanks for me. I am certain his method works because it is just a more extreme (and more efficient) version of what I found on my own.
CM

[pdawg_shooter]

I have always been able to get the lead out by shooting a few jacketed bullets don tne bore.

[montana_charlie]

If a jacketed bullet was shaped as a straight cylinder with a funnel shaped cavity in the nose, I might believe that. If the leading edge of the funnel was sharp enough to act like a chisel, to peel the lead away from the steel and deposit it in the cavity, I could believe the bullet might pick up lead and carry it out of the bore.

As it is, I imagine the lead is spread forward (like troweling concrete), perhaps being polished by the smooth copper so it 'looks' like shiny steel...at least temporarily.

I wonder what a borescope would show you, after using that method...?
CM

[44man]

I just never have those problems! Yes, there will be a few specks of lead once in a while but it pushes right out with a jag and tight patch. It never sticks or builds up. Boolit fit, alloy and good lube prevents it for me. I don't even see a difference with the first shot from a clean bore and the 50th shot.
I never clean with one of those slotted ends either, they are junk. Sometimes I don't clean a gun for a year.
I do remember the old days and cleaning .38's for the Cleveland police after they shot wad cutters. I could not find rifling and even the outsides of the guns were full of lead. Now THAT was work!
Someone has said that if lead is built up on one side of the bore and you shoot jacketed, you will bend the barrel or make it egg shaped! I don't know, I clean out lead (Specks.) before jacketed and remove copper before lead.

[Bass Ackward]

MC,

I am glad that you have found a method that you are comfortable using. Everyone should feel that way.

I just bore scoped a section right ahead of my chamber that I could readily identify of my krieger, 416R stainless, 458 barrel. It has that has the wet, mirror finish look. I brushed the barrel multiple times with a bronze brush only to find the same sandblasted finish coating of which Dan Theodore described.

But .... when I went in with Hoppie's Elite and removed the bronze deposited from the brush that was causing that finish look, my pristine bore was not defaced or altered in any way visible at that power. The appearance was just as before. But I will admit that it could have been worn and I just couldn't tell it. I have plastic, stainless, and bronze brushes that get used from time to time under different applications.

What's the difference between my 416R and Mr Theodore's? Maybe the amount of heat treatment or the fact that I shoot jacketed every so often which heat treats and surface hardens the bore. I can't say for sure, but I evidently don't have the bronze brush problem he fears. And if I don't have it with soft stainless, I doubt that I will have it with the 4140 series either.

What people need to realize is that a barrel is created, improves, stabilizes, declines and eventually needs replaced. What causes this life cycle? Wear. Wear does good things in the beginning and then eventually ends it. Cleaning is a necessary evil and more critical at different times in the life cycle of a barrel than others. Some techniques work better at different stages of the life cycle.

Failure to clean in itself can cause uneven (more) wear that would contribute negatively to the life cycle, than a seldom used abrasive cleaning method required to restore the bore to a .... clean state.

I am willing to accept that everything I put down my bore from patches to bullets has some abrasive property of which powder is absolutely the worst. Selected and operated properly, any method will cause less wear than if patience is lost and operated improperly.

Bottom line is I never narrow my focus on a cleaning method and I try to keep an open mind and understand where I am in the life cycle of my barrel. The method that works best is the one that I can use and operate while I still have the patience to do so. So in the end, the less .... damage can be caused from the most abrasive method that is operated properly. Each situation (gun) should be treated differently, especially after your "go to" method let's you down. And eventually they all will. At least mine have.

[montana_charlie]

I'll admit that I haven't thrown away my bronze brushes, BA.

Theodore may feel they do more harm than good, but sometimes that little bit of good is what's necessary to get all the way finished. I don't 'scrub' with them...just run through and back a few times. If something is being unusually stubborn, a little bristled encouragement under the Kroil-soaked patch seems to help.

But the extremely tight patch is the element of Theodore's described method I wanted to point out. When I was getting into that (on my own) there were a couple of times when I thought I had really screwed up. But, as long as the tight jag/patch combination will make it through the chamber and into the bore...it WILL go through without damage...if the rod can take it.

And, just for the record, I have never been this picky with my 'modern' guns.
CM

[randyrat]

I cast and load for the forty cal. I run a "Frontier" pad (kinda like a brillo pad) through it about three times (every 40-50 rounds) and it's clean. I know i get some leading but not bad. This stuff works great. It looks like a stainless steal brillo pad. I pull a few strands off and roll it a round a brush then run it through the barrel. Wow! it works great and no solvents.

[lurch]

I can't comment about rifles, but can concerning handguns. So far, Kroil and a tight patch on a jag does the trick for me to get the lead out. The short rods for the pistol length barrels can take a lot of force to stuff a really tight one through. I will admit to using a bronze brush too on occasion when things are really bad, but that doesn't happen too often. Can't see where it's ever hurt anything, but then I don't have access to a bore scope either. All I can say in that department is accuracy not showing any signs of going south.

[jonk]

50/50 mix of white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide (drugstore strength). Dip a brush in that, scrub the bore, then a wet patch. Let sit 5 minutes. Wet patch, dry patch. Then clean and oil as normal. No more lead.

[felix]

Vinegar attacks lead making lead acetate, which will go through your skin with no problems. Use rubber gloves. The white-ish look to the water is the acetate. Do this outside on the lawn. After the barrel is clean, wash down the barrel with tap water to raise the ph of the innards and outards; do not use distilled or reverse-osmosis water for the wash down. Any water will work using the vinegar with hydrogen peroxide because the vinegar will overpower the water's content of whatever. High ph water will neutralize the acidic environment before drying and oiling. ... felix

[35remington]

montana charlie, the result of firing a few jacketed bullets down a mildly leaded bore is less lead in the bore. Believe it. That is what a borescope shows. Theory on how that "can't" be happening doesn't matter. What matters is results. Feel free to shoot and scope a barrel to confirm.

We may debate the advisability of doing it, but as long as the rounds are low pressure I have found no harm in using jacketed as a deleader. I very rarely "need" to do so, preferring to scrub it out. Most of my range sessions have no jacketed loads present, and most of my loads lead very little if at all, depending upon what I'm doing, of course.

[montana_charlie]

That is what a borescope shows.
Not just everyone has access to a borescope...including me. But if your own eyes (with that kind of technological help) show it to be true, I won't argue with you.

I'll reserve the right to 'not understand' how it can happen that way...but there are more than a few things on this planet that I don't understand.
CM