Lyman 311410 boolit for .308 win ?

[Revolver]

I've had this mold but never used it until the other day. I cast up some 135 grain boolits. These are plain base, no gas checks.

Does anyone have any suggested 308 win loads? I am having trouble finding information for cast boolits. Castpics lists loads for this mold for 30-06 w/10 grain unique but nothing for 308.

It would be really nice to have a load using unique or red dot as I have a lot of that. FWIW I'm just target shooting in the back yard.

I have on hand...

Unique
Red Dot
Bullseye
Hodgdon Benchmark (The label suggests 43 gr MAX for a 155gr j-word in Win .308)

[1Shirt]

It was designed for the 30 carb. and in that it shoots ok. If you are going to shoot it in a 308, suggest lite loads of Unique or Red Dot, and vols under the 1600 fps mark. I have had a little luck with it with unique, and vols in the 1400 range.
1Shirt!

[runfiverun]

bout 5=6 grs of red dot.
6 ish of the unique also.
bullseye would be in the 5-6 range also.
you'll be looking to start there and see what you can do.
900-1400 fps should be bout right.
good paper/plinking/small game load.
think super powered 30 long rifle.

[HARRYMPOPE]

It was designed for the 30 carb. and in that it shoots ok. If you are going to shoot it in a 308, suggest lite loads of Unique or Red Dot, and vols under the 1600 fps mark. I have had a little luck with it with unique, and vols in the 1400 range.
1Shirt!

My experience also.I have had it shoot OK but not a real tack driver at 100 yards.At 50 yards it shot good enough though.I used Bullseye loads at velocity of 1200-1300 in the 30-06 and 308.The HP i have will out shoot the solids for some reason.
For a quiet plinker back yard load 5g of Red Dot will be great.

George

[Bret4207]

It was designed for the 30 carb

I believe if you check that was designed for the 32-20. Doesn't matter much, just a point of interest. It came out back in the teens IIRC, long before Carbine Williams got desperate.

[Mk42gunner]

I haven't shot that particular boolit, but have used Wilbird's 314-120 GB (think 311008) in the .308 in front of 6 grains of 231. It shot okay for plinking cans under fifty yards, but the Lee 312-185 with 16 grains of 2400 was way more accurate. This was from my 98 Mauser with a Parker-Hale take off heavy barrel, IIRC they are supposed to have an 11 inch twist.

I am not sure if it was the gascheck or the heavier projectile that made the difference. Now that I have a 311316, I need to do a side by side comparison.

Robert

Robert

[HARRYMPOPE]

I believe if you check that was designed for the 32-20. Doesn't matter much, just a point of interest. It came out back in the teens IIRC, long before Carbine Williams got desperate.


It was for the 30-06 according to Lymans special bullet list in handbook #37.It's not a 32-20 bullet

George

[HARRYMPOPE]

I haven't shot that particular boolit, but have used Wilbird's 314-120 GB (think 311008) in the .308 in front of 6 grains of 231. It shot okay for plinking cans under fifty yards, but the Lee 312-185 with 16 grains of 2400 was way more accurate. This was from my 98 Mauser with a Parker-Hale take off heavy barrel, IIRC they are supposed to have an 11 inch twist.

I am not sure if it was the gascheck or the heavier projectile that made the difference. Now that I have a 311316, I need to do a side by side comparison.

Robert

Robert

The 3118 also shoots for me and Mmuch better than the 311410.The 311316 has shot about like the 31118 for me but for loads in that class the 3118 wins out as the GC is just an extra a step not needed for sub 100 yard loads.I have 311316 HP and tried to hot it up for a varmint load in a 308 but when i got to 2000 accuracy fell off sharply.

George

[Bret4207]

It was for the 30-06 according to Lymans special bullet list in handbook #37.It's not a 32-20 bullet

George

My Ideal reloading Handbook says it's a 32-20 boolit. Just read that the other day which is why I commented.

[Bret4207]

My apologies! This got bothering me and I found my old Ideal catalogs. I was thinking of the 311359! I blame old age and too much to do. The 311410 was listed in Ideal 29 as a "light load for the '06". However, it still predates the 30 Carbine by at least 10 years as I thought. The 311359 is a very similar appearing boolit designed for the 32-20 with a GC, whereas the 410 is PB. Both have been said to have been designed for the 30 Carbine and neither was.

Mea culpa.

Somewhere in my enormous collection of reference material is a book or an article that outlines the known designers of various Lyman boolits and a good deal of information on their thoughts. Finding it would be something close to a miracle at this point, but if I ever run across it I'll try scanning it for Castpics.

[Revolver]

UPDATE: I loaded some up with 8 grains of Unique and shot them tonight. It went very well, very light, made me feel almost like I was shooting a 22. Got about 1" group at 50 yards but I am not good at holding the gun very still yet, need some sandbags or something. I am going to load up about 20 rounds and do more testing soon. I saw no signs of leading yet, but then again it was only 3 rounds.

[Bret4207]

That's a good start. IMO too many people try and start with mid range to heavy loads way too soon. That little PB out of a 308 with 8 grs Unique would be somewhere in the 12-1300 fps range I would think. That puts you in the 32-20 standard load range more or less and the recoil you describe is what I get from a 32-20 rifle, just a slight shove that lets you know the boolit went someplace. Keep going in the direction you're headed!

FWIW- an awful lot of venison has fallen to a 32-20 with a lighter boolit than you have at less speed. It might seem like a 22, but it packs a wallop on the other end. That is likely a fine rabbit load!

[Revolver]

That is very encouraging, can't wait to do more testing. Thank you for your feedback.

Also, I am using White Label 2500+ lube, which is what I use for my revolvers, do you think that is ok for .308?

[L1A1Rocker]

There is currently a group buy on a modified version. It's a Miha cramer hollow point GB. The nose of the boolit was extended giving it a forward driving band and keeping the weight at 130grs with the hollow point.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=129160

[HARRYMPOPE]

My apologies! This got bothering me and I found my old Ideal catalogs. I was thinking of the 311359! .

I thought that's the bullet you were thinking of.You are correct on the '359 often quoted as being designed for the .30 Carbine and it was not.

George

[Revolver]

Reporting back, I just got through shooting off 50 of these 311410's w/8.0 gr Unique in 308 win. I am confused with the results and would appreciate some insight.

My first 4 groups of 4 shots each came out at about 1" or less if I deleted 1 shot. Beyond that things just got worse, to a point where some weren't even hitting within the 4" printed target area. Major scattering.

I checked the bore and don't see any leading. The barrel did get hot, would that matter? Thank you.

[HARRYMPOPE]

sometimes with plainbase often you wont get leading but accuracy will be bad.i personally dont drive 30 caliber plainbase faster than abut 1300 fps(close to 1200 for me).I bet you were over 1400 with that load and at the edge of accuracy for plainbase bullets.Sometimes it will hold together over 1400 but that's the exception rather than the rule for me

[Revolver]

sometimes with plainbase often you wont get leading but accuracy will be bad.i personally dont drive 30 caliber plainbase faster than abut 1300 fps(close to 1200 for me).I bet you were over 1400 with that load and at the edge of accuracy for plainbase bullets.Sometimes it will hold together over 1400 but that's the exception rather than the rule for me

So dialing back the powder might be the next thing to try? Maybe 7 grains or would you suggest smaller increments?

[HARRYMPOPE]

Sure try 7 and see what happens.if you just want a plinker load 6 wouldn't be too low to start.

[Bret4207]

As Harry said, dialing it back might be the ticket. As far as your barrel heating up affecting things, it could certainly happen. Dimensions change as the barrel heats, your fit is affected and your burn rate might be too. All this can lead to poor shooting without leading.

Might be worth running a patch or 3 through the barrel to see if you are getting some lead build up. I bet you find some.

[Revolver]

Sure try 7 and see what happens.if you just want a plinker load 6 wouldn't be too low to start.

Reporting back again. Today I fired off 50 rounds with 7.0 grains of unique and had much better success. They Crono'd in the 1265 range and seemed much more accurate then previously. I wonder if I should dial it back a little more, to around 1200 fps.

[MT Gianni]

I would dial back until the groups no longer improved. The caveat is that you don't want to stick one and I would consider 1000 fps as my minimum velocity.

[cbrick]

Revolver,

I started the Miha group buy for this mold that L1A1Rocker mentioned in post #14, Dannix is running it now. This is an outstanding bullet in my Ruger 30 Carbine and my T/C 32-20. My Lyman 311410 was a bevel base and HP'd by Lyman with a very long HP spud. I had Erik Ohlen remove the bevel base and make an additional shorter HP pin. With lite loads in both of these guns it is devastating on ground squirrels with the short pin.

I also plan on trying it as a plinking load in my 308 rifle and XP, I now have a starting point for the 308's thanks to this thread.

The group buy is for Miha's brass in 2 or 4 cav and comes with the long HP pin, short HP pin and pins for casting a flat point in the Cramer style. It's also available in either plain base or gas check but not in the same mold. It's also available in either .311" or .316" but not both in the same mold. If your going to be shooting a lot of this bullet you may want to get in on this group buy.

Rick