PDA

View Full Version : Situational awareness thread: do we need one ?



gray wolf
08-07-2012, 02:43 PM
I am well aware that some here are very well versed on situational awareness,
some think they are, some are not, some are to shy to ask
and some have no clue as to what it is.
So hence my ??
I know it will have conflicting views, but that's what makes us great.
Dead wrong suggestions will be jumped on and corrected, by the knowledgeable folks
( I hope ).
I say it's needed, what say you ?.
If it gets out of hand or wonders to much we can pull it back in.
It can cover the topic in general, and cover equipment also.

smokeywolf
08-07-2012, 03:41 PM
Most folks here are open to sharing their knowledge and learning something new from others. Although this may not be associated with reloading, it is associated with firearms and their use or misuse.
It could save a life someday, go for it.

44man
08-07-2012, 04:10 PM
No. All here will help. Many views but it is up to you to find what works.
There is NEVER a stupid question. Conflict is normal because stuff works for some. But there is never anger. Give and take is what is so great.

GRUMPA
08-07-2012, 04:42 PM
As far as the situational awareness goes, it's nice to be informed or someone takes the time to let others know what they found someone else didn't.

Even knowing something can give a person I guess insight so that they can ponder it for themselves.

If it's regarding the second my hand would be raised, but I've seen things that seem to get out of hand if you will and next thing you know a MOD has to come in and put that warning sticker on someones monitor.

Around these parts people are wondering what's next, and these are the people that are uninformed and have no clue except what they hear come from someone else, and they are scared.

I've read a great many things on this site from many people that I value what they write, but at times the statements that follow border on someone having a hissy fit.

Personally something like that would be great for information as long as it's kept that way, information, and not something that morphs into something else entirely and gets out of control, around here we call it the snowball effect, it starts out small and given enough momentum gets large and out of control.

2muchstuf
08-07-2012, 05:10 PM
Like I voted, I just might learn something.
Never too old to learn.
Keep an open mind and you should learn something every day.
2

popper
08-07-2012, 05:28 PM
Could be informative if it doesn't turn into an equipment argument (45/380/shotgun/HP/zombie ammo, etc). Like driving a car, you need to know what is going on around you. I presume you really are talking what to do if found in a situation.

Wayne Smith
08-07-2012, 05:36 PM
One thing I've noticed is that my situational awareness varies significantly with my tiredness. On the way home after work I am much less aware than on the way in to work in the morning.

gray wolf
08-07-2012, 06:48 PM
If it gets out of hand or wonders to much we can pull it back in.
Lets fool everyone and do this correctly,


Like driving a car, you need to know what is going on around you.


Yes that is what it means, exactly.


I presume you really are talking what to do if found in a situation.

No, I am talking about how not to get into a situation by being aware of whats going on around you, Staying alert to stay alive.
Also what to look for that may indicate ( this could be a problem ) time to leave.
We do not want to get into a shoot em up,
simple example
You are driving with your wife in a new area and she wants to stop in a large store to do a little gift getting. You park and go into the store. What might be some of the first things to make mental notes off.
Simple answer to get the feel of it.
Did I notice any people standing in or near the front door that could be trouble ?
How much daylight was left when I parked the car ?
If it's going to be dark when I leave the store, did I park near or under an out door light.
As I walk into the store I get a feel for and try to notice ware the exits are.
Do they allow entry from the outside ?
What kind of emergency lighting do they have ?
Do I see a fire alarm or extinguishers ? are there sprinklers ?
How big is the main door, if I have to leave in a hurry and the store is full of people,
would one of the emergency doors be a better choice to keep me from being trampled ?
I can't see my wife, she was right here a minute a go, did you have a pre plan with her ?
A Threat to your life can come in many forms besides from a gun.
Some of the roof in the store may be caving in and you need to get out.
A fire has broken out in part of the store.
You think you may be smelling something strange.
Ect. Ect.
Simple you say ? notice no guns were involved here, but it could be life threatening.
How unaware were you in this situation ? what did you take for granted ?
This can get as hard as you want to make it, Lets start easy,

kbstenberg
08-07-2012, 06:53 PM
Small minds need clarification. What You talking about Willis?

Taylor
08-07-2012, 07:01 PM
I am well aware of the meaning of situational awareness...but I'm with kbstenberg.

Lefty SRH
08-07-2012, 07:46 PM
A little situational awareness can prevent many many bad things. Tid bits of good info here and there on the subject are always a good thing to discuss.

1Shirt
08-07-2012, 08:15 PM
NO! It is not broke, don't try to fix it!
1Shirt!

725
08-07-2012, 08:40 PM
Some wander through life blithely unaware of what goes on around them, without any understanding of how things work, or how a host of things do or do not affect them. With blind luck many of them are rarely put upon by the facts of life and appear to think this is just the way it is. Others of that ilk are routinely supprised at every turn, and suffer the consequences of usually avoidable troubles.
Those who cultivate their situational awareness, in effect, prepare themselves metally to make future decisions. Cops and combat soldiers seem very good at this. What may happen to them in the very next moment might be dire. It's not just a mental exercise but rather a very real copeing skill that helps in survival for them. Experience is the grand master. If you survive one event, you will be more atuned to the next similar event.
Try as I might, I can't get my daughter to figure it out. She can't / won't learn from my experiences, and pays all too little attention to my advice.
Will Rogers had a handle on it; "Some can learn from the experiences of others, some have to pee on the electric fence themselves."

gbrown
08-07-2012, 08:42 PM
I am well aware that some here are very well versed on situational awareness,

I know it will have conflicting views, but that's what makes us great.
Dead wrong suggestions will be jumped on and corrected, by the knowledgeable folks.

I think it is something that can never be overstressed. Makes me think back to the early '80's and the Street Survival training I received. Yes, the training is still available, and the book is still offered by Calibre or Caliber Press. My only problem is the "will be jumped on" statement. I notice that sometimes people who don't agree have ridiculed or basically denounced someone. As extended family, and "that's what makes us great", I think that we should all tread lightly and ask for clarification of statements we do not agree with. The good Lord knows that I have mis-stated plenty of things.

btroj
08-07-2012, 09:49 PM
I don't know that one can truly learn situational awareness from a website. Training of the nature needs to be first hand and involves much practice.

Trying to learn this from a website sounds to me like the realm of mall ninjas.

No thanks.

runfiverun
08-07-2012, 10:07 PM
teaching some [of this] stuff does take ummmm props and stuff.
knowledge can be passed on through the written word, if that type of thing is what is being discussed.

here is/are the biggest things you can do.

1. have an exit.....alway's have an exit.
2. open your circle....... be aware of the other aisles/ends of your aisle when shopping, the door when at a restaurant.
3. protect your 6.....learn to walk or sit a little sideways
4. and learn the difference between cover and concealment.

practice those 4 things and most situations will be avoided.
if a situation occurs.
refer to rule number one.
move and keep moving as long as possible.
using rules 2-3-4.

trust me on those 4 rules [plus the move and keep moving] working in avoiding and surviving an issue.

gbrown
08-07-2012, 11:41 PM
+1 with btroj's and runfiverun's statements. However, I think that this would be good to get people "thinking" in the right direction. Situational awareness, as I have been taught and believe, is a state of mind. Riverfiverun points some of these out. Earlier posts have done the same. I think that raising points such as these will get people to think about what they observe in any given situation. No situation will ever replicate itself, in it's entireity(sp?).

waksupi
08-08-2012, 01:00 AM
Every battle plan is perfect, until the first shot is fired.

fixit
08-08-2012, 09:29 AM
i get called mr. obviousman because i intentionally ask the questions that everyone thinks everyone knows the answers to. my willingness to appear foolish has led to many people, myself included, learning that things are different than they thought! so, yes, i think this is a good idea!

felix
08-08-2012, 10:15 AM
About every thread deals with situation awareness. Many threads include "I heard", "I talked with", "that page or book says", "look at this link", etc. NO, we need no special thread, other than the TOPIC at the top of the post as is normal on this board. ... felix

gray wolf
08-08-2012, 10:21 AM
I think some clarification is in order for those that seem to know everything
including what's good for others. Please read the header, say the words very slowly so they sink in. In doing so you may notice there is NO mention of starting a new topic for our forum index .
It simple refers to a THREAD,
We have many poles from time to time about many different subjects.
As a courtesy I thought we could take a vote to see if there was enough interest in the subject before a thread was even started.

It's not about adding anything to our forum index


I don't know that one can truly learn situational awareness from a website. Training of the nature needs to be first hand and involves much practice.
Trying to learn this from a website sounds to me like the realm of mall ninjas.
No thanks.
For those interested in developing a better understanding of situational awareness
and what is going on around them, please don't let statements like in the above quote deter you. Others ignorance should not interfere with your ability to learn.
situational awareness is a state of mind, it's a shift in ones way of thinking about what is going on around them, in this case it is focused on ones well being.
Helpful ways to avoid situations that could escalate, and become life threatening.
It is not something that needs hands on training We are not talking about weapons training or there deployment. What lies in the balance is the re-training of your thought proses.
If the poll numbers show that folks would like to pursue this paradigm shift relating to the way we think and act in our environment then we can proceed.
We can possibly have a thread that relates to the subject, with questions
and answers that can be discussed. Pros,cons and helpful thoughts for those that would like to participate.
Needless to say for the folks that think it's a waste of time, they will not have to participate. If some folks think they are in total control of there surroundings
You also don't have to participate.
Why would you ? if you know everything there is to know about the subject
move over and let someone else have a seat so they can learn.

blackthorn
08-08-2012, 10:51 AM
Until Gray Wolf raised this subject I had never consiously given much thought to "situational awareness". This thread has started me thinking. In Canada we are not leagaly allowed to carry weapons even to defend ourselves. Every area is a "safe" hunting ground for whatever crazy nut case that comes along, and that does not even begin to address the much more likely "non-agressive"/natural disaster situation I could find myself in! I try to be aware of what is occuring around me at all times and that, along with some inovative driving, has been instrumental in avoiding being involved in several traffic accidents over the years. I think this is a good thread and I will be following it and perhaps contributing.

gray wolf
08-08-2012, 10:59 AM
I think this is a good thread and I will be following it and perhaps contributing.
Thank you R D M I am sure you will have good things to add.

44man
08-08-2012, 11:06 AM
About every thread deals with situation awareness. Many threads include "I heard", "I talked with", "that page or book says", "look at this link", etc. NO, we need no special thread, other than the TOPIC at the top of the post as is normal on this board. ... felix
OH MY, Felix, you have exceeded all. This is the truth and what some of us fight day to day.
I wonder at you and the way you say things with such clarity. You say very little but it sure is always right.
Takes me weeks to get something across! :holysheep

JonB_in_Glencoe
08-08-2012, 11:28 AM
I mostly believe Situational awareness is instinct...either God given or learned at a very young age. I will surely NOT Poo poo this thread, as it's always good to discuss things and maybe pickup a kernel or two from someone elses experiences.

what I'm sayin' is...
when you're driving in a known area for deer, at dusk...you are either continually watching for wildlife, or you reading bumper stickers and chattin' with the wife.
Jon

geargnasher
08-08-2012, 03:38 PM
While I want to think this idea is silly and pointless on a bullet casting discussion board, I have to admit I learned an important and useful tidbit from one of the posts. I suspect that for many of the members this site is one of the few they visit, so making it more "comprehensive" makes sense to a few. So you guys do whatever, I'll probably browse any thread that might come up.

Gear

gray wolf
08-08-2012, 07:29 PM
Well Gear it's good to know you would visit the threads,
I would think you could add a lot to some of the discussions.
I Have a hunch there are many people that at a minimum could learn the importance of being alert to there surroundings and how not to get caught up in some of today's nastiness.
I could think of a lot worse topics to talk about. Look at all the play we got on the topic of flashlights. Some folks were and still are very interested in learning about a simple thing like a hand torch. As conversations went on I think folks understood a little more about the usefulness of a flash light.
I look at it this way, if anyone can learn anything that may benefit them or there family why not help.
After all it will only be a thread with responses to questions and suggestions to help people see, what they have NOT been seeing.
when the thread ends, that's that.

gray wolf
08-09-2012, 01:59 PM
As the Author of this poll I thought I would let it run till Sun. Unless there is an objection. To date it looks like many have read it and the votes look like it at least deserves a start.
So if it stays up there in the voting, come Monday perhaps I can start a little thread on the subject. Just something simple to see how it goes.
I hope the folks that are in favor of the subject will have something to say, and something to add.

popper
08-09-2012, 02:23 PM
I don't know that one can truly learn situational awareness from a website Easy rules.
1) Stay away from bars and dance halls. Have no more than 1 drink when not at home.
2) Stay off the roads between midnight and 5AM Sat & Sunday, that's when the drunks are on the road, usually AFTER the bars close.
3) Lock your doors - home, auto - even while driving.
4) The 'bad' part of town got it's name for a reason.
5) Watch out for persons wearing a hoodie, trench coat with AK under it.
6) Listen to what is going on around you in a store or office.
7) Watch your kids - their yours, not mine.
8) Wash your own windshield.
9) Add yours here.
10) Don't pay attention to me cause I don't know what I'm talking about!

gray wolf
08-09-2012, 03:17 PM
Don't pay attention to me cause I don't know what I'm talking about!
Yes and you show that from your post, ( no offense meant )
But thank you anyway, perhaps you would like to join in when we discuss it.

abqcaster
08-09-2012, 04:06 PM
There's a great book on the subject called The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker. My dojo references it a lot in self defense classes. And I personally recommend it FWIW.

popper
08-09-2012, 04:38 PM
greywolf - actually, check the stats. #1-8 are FACTUAL. Add 'stay away from drugs and druggies'. This will solve 99% (other than traffic tickets) problems. Others can add responses for the remaining 1%, which is, I think, what you really want to cover. 99% of the population will never be in the 1% problem area, discounting revolution or civil war. Yes, if you are in the 1% you need to know what to do! Just saying.

gray wolf
08-09-2012, 04:56 PM
Popper You don't have a clue as to what situational awareness means.
Thank you for your attempt to help.
I am talking about when your out and about in normal every day situations.
Not in a bar at 2 AM or going in the bad part of town.
Also thank you for the reference to the book. I am sure my copy is here someplace.

popper
08-09-2012, 05:40 PM
Oh, you mean like when I was visiting Savannah, passed a doorway when someone yelled 'help' and my wife ran in to she what she could do? Turned out to be an older gentleman who had fallen down. It could have been a mugger. Or Toronto, when they come to wash your windshield at a stop light. Or at WW when your kids get lost? Sat & Sun AM are when the drunks are DRIVING HOME! Avoidance keeps you out of the 1%. @ 70 yrs, I'm not going to get in a fight with some young punk, I don't carry except for a pocket knife. Avoidance and flight are my 'weapons'. I'll fight as a last alternative, with anything handy. My nephew was a bank teller for a while. The teller next to him was robbed at gunpoint. She quit the next day. There is a reason for no armed guards at banks anymore. Collateral damage. So I don't know about situational awareness. I don't want to be in the 1%.

gray wolf
08-09-2012, 05:49 PM
What can I say ??
Other than I guess it's a good thing you can only vote once.

MT Gianni
08-09-2012, 11:28 PM
Easy rules.
1) Stay away from bars and dance halls. Have no more than 1 drink when not at home.
2) Stay off the roads between midnight and 5AM Sat & Sunday, that's when the drunks are on the road, usually AFTER the bars close. { A friend is a MHP officer, there are a lot of drunks headed to work any morning after a rough night Watch for side traffic as well as front and rear for any erratic behavior. ]
3) Lock your doors - home, auto - even while driving.
4) The 'bad' part of town got it's name for a reason.
5) Watch out for persons wearing a hoodie, trench coat with AK under it. [As I under stand a hoodie it ends at the waist, shorter than an Einsenhouar jacket?]
6) Listen to what is going on around you in a store or office. [Watch others actions as well as what they say. Watch eyes when speaking with someone.]
7) Watch your kids - their yours, not mine.
8) Wash your own windshield.
9) Add yours here. [When staying at a motel get two keys and lock one in the car. Make sure that the piece of paper identifying your room and motel stays in the room. If you don't like where the hostess seats you ask her to move you or leave.]
10) Don't pay attention to me cause I don't know what I'm talking about!
Watch out for motorcyclist that take their hand off the bars to raise them. They might not be empty. The standard wave is a lowered hand, the only exception is the old hand to the helmet pat indicating a cop ahead.

gbrown
08-10-2012, 12:02 AM
Okay, so let’s start, I will give you my thoughts on situational awareness. I’m not an expert and do not even believe all of this is the final answer. Correct and add as you feel necessary. This all theoretical-as one of the quotes I have read here many times: “It’s all an educated guess until the trigger is pulled.” If I got that wrong, please forgive me.

1. Awareness—understanding the situation in which you find yourself.
a. White—Bomb proof, nuclear shelter with every detection device known. Plenty of ammo and weapons. Unlimited sustainability.
b. Green—In the den, all doors locked (you checked them twice), dog is on the couch and everyone is home. Gun on the table beside you.
c. Yellow—Outside, in the car, mowing the lawn, grilling, etc.
d. Amber—Away from home, driving the patrol car, driving the family car (with family), in an unfamiliar place (city, neighborhood, wherever), walking through a parking lot.
e. Red—Something is out of place, disturbance, possible trouble. (Think: Going to a family disturbance call)
f. Black—Obvious threat (walls, ceiling or displays falling), weapons displayed, someone confronting another, store clerks disturbed, odd noises, etc.

2. Location—just like the realtors/merchandising gurus say: Location, Location, Location. Where am I at? Usual place like Grocery store, Mall, inside a retail store, golf club, shooting range, major league ball park, or somewhere totally unfamiliar, just where am I?

3. Environment—Darkness, Broad daylight, Rain, Fog, what am I looking at?

4. Normal—Is what I am seeing normal for the location (#2) and environment? We should all have enough experience with our usual haunts to know normal and not.

5. Focus/Observation—

a. Am I paying attention to detail?
b. Am I scanning for problems/threats?
c. Is there something out of place?
d. Is this “normal” for where and when I am at? (#2)

snuffy
08-10-2012, 12:12 AM
What can I say ??
Other than I guess it's a good thing you can only vote once.

I was going to vote, and keep track of this thread. But with an attitude like that, I'll find something else to read. Nice put-down!

Situational awareness, I had to look it up on wikipedia. Their definition was very unclear. I guess it's some yuppie catch phrase. Or PC code word.

Do I keep track of things going on around me? Sure do! Do I need somebody with a know it all attitude to tell what to watch for? NO! I can take care of myself.

Longwood
08-10-2012, 12:23 AM
Situational awareness, I had to look it up on wikipedia. Their definition was very unclear. I guess it's some yuppie catch phrase. Or PC code word.



Yep.
Another "Yuppy" word for Paranoid.
My dad and millions before him said it different, and kept it simple.
"Pay attention".

smokeywolf
08-10-2012, 12:33 AM
snuffy,
Don't leave. In military and paramilitary organizations one of the prerequisites is to have a can-do, know-how attitude. Even if someone sounds like a know-it-all, don't discount what they know.

smokeywolf

gbrown
08-10-2012, 12:41 AM
snuffy,
Don't leave. In military and paramilitary organizations one of the prerequisites is to have a can-do, know-how attitude. Even if someone sounds like a know-it-all, don't discount what they know.

smokeywolf

+1 One of the things I love about this site is the sharing. Let's share without harsh feelings or words. Let's help one another, despite each other's failings at times to find the right words. I can take it, when someone else thinks I'm an idiot. I know what works.

firefly1957
08-10-2012, 01:08 AM
The only negative might be sharing of something that could have legal consequences. I am not talking about illegal acts but look at what is going on with Zimmerman and what is happening.

44man
08-10-2012, 08:34 AM
Many good points and avoidance is always best. If it comes down to saving yourself or someone else it takes a mental state most don't have.
It takes muscle memory and constant practice. Even LEO's have a hard time hitting anything from lack of practice.
To have to watch everyone and everything around you is not an every day thing. That will just burn you out.
It is why our great men in uniform and LEO's have a lot of problems. Too much stress.
Yet I still believe more should be trained to carry and guns should be allowed everywhere, even open carry. Those nut cases might be put down faster to limit the harm they do.
Nothing is a better deterrent then everyone with a gun on the hip.
Nut cases go where there is no danger.

popper
08-10-2012, 01:24 PM
Good points, gbrown. Einstein said paranoia is a good thing. I think deer are paranoid. Another stat for my list is, > 75% of inmates were high on something when they did what they did. My 'list' is advice to keep out of the 1% situations. Maybe the thought of the thread should be what to do if you are 'in the wrong place at the wrong time'. At least we are avoiding the 'my gun is badder than yours' and 'this is the best ammo for SD'.

guns should be allowed everywhere, even open carry Not sure I can completely agree with that. CC laws are pretty obtuse and some people just aren't mature enough to carry.

looseprojectile
08-10-2012, 03:53 PM
yes, maybe I can learn something.
Then, when I read of someone posting their ideas and what they think, they get steped on.
At this point I don't think we need another thread where we see nothing but arguements.
Situational awarement covers so much ground, from politics to gang wars to just stepping out in your front yard I can see a thread such as this causing as much trouble as good. and much confusion.

Evidently situational awareness means different things to different people.

Define situational awareness.


Life is good

wills
08-10-2012, 04:10 PM
Now we vote on whether to have a thread?

wills
08-10-2012, 04:14 PM
http://hadtolol.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/situational-awareness-rain.jpg


http://lolz4u.com/posts/Situational%20awareness.jpg

44man
08-10-2012, 04:22 PM
Good points, gbrown. Einstein said paranoia is a good thing. I think deer are paranoid. Another stat for my list is, > 75% of inmates were high on something when they did what they did. My 'list' is advice to keep out of the 1% situations. Maybe the thought of the thread should be what to do if you are 'in the wrong place at the wrong time'. At least we are avoiding the 'my gun is badder than yours' and 'this is the best ammo for SD'.
Not sure I can completely agree with that. CC laws are pretty obtuse and some people just aren't mature enough to carry.
Nothing will ever change. There will be nut cases forever and a big knife can wreak death on innocents.
Most law abiding citizens can be trusted but there is no way to sort out crazy people, never will be.
The idea of liberals is to remove ALL guns but will you take away the guns from a nut case? What if the nut comes to church with a machete or a double bladed axe?
If I seen everyone with a gun on their hip, I would feel much safer.

JonB_in_Glencoe
08-10-2012, 06:52 PM
If I seen everyone with a gun on their hip, I would feel much safer.

Being at a "American" gunshow is about the safest feeling I've ever known.
BUT, I am still watching for greenhorn mistakes and, as always, I watch out for the nefarious types.
I am surrounded by liberal family members and there is no liberal that could ever convince me not to profile people...as much as they try.
Jon

Longwood
08-10-2012, 07:24 PM
You just need too,