Severe Oxidation of lead cause problems?

[MakeMineA10mm]

I scored about 250 lbs of what looks like #7-1/2 shot tonight. It was stored in two 5-gallon buckets (without lids) in a garage for at least 12-15 years. It has all turned very white, and the white is a powdery-substance which I presume is severe oxidation... I haven't put a micrometer to it yet... Maybe it has oxidized down to #8 or 9 size by now!:roll: :mrgreen:

Anyway, I'm wondering if there is any shootability issues with this shot being oxidized so bad? I plan on loading this in 12-ga target loads.

Also, anyone have a suggestion for removing the oxidation (as well as dust, dirt, rust residue and other fine-sized junk mixed in with it)?

[leftiye]

Melt it, the oxide will either render back into solution (use 50/50 boolit lube, and pine pitch or rosin to flux- best flux for putting oxides back into solution) or if it won't reduce, it will skim off as dross. They didn't cover the bucket? It wouldn't have oxidized like that if covered, so be real careful that it is dry or you'll get steam explosions (if you add more to a molten pot).

[44man]

I would think the only worry would be scratching the bore. The oxide is a little harder but in a shot cup, it would be OK. There might be some way to tumble small amounts at a time to clean it some. The ceramic media would be best. Throw it out when done.
I would do it outside and use a mask. You don't want to breath any of the oxide! Don't handle any of the stuff indoors and wash up good after.
The suggestion to melt it is the best, use it for something else.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Thanks.

Yes, the oxide is very dusty, especially when pouring from the 5-gallon buckets to more handle-able containers. Lead being lead, I knew not to breathe it.

I thought hard about melting it down, but I don't know if this is dead soft, or super-hard magnum shot... We have no idea where it came from. I suppose I could melt just enough to make an ingot and hardness test it, but it could even be a mixed batch...

Since the oxidation is on the surface, the shot would not disintegrate when shot from a 12-ga., right?

Is there anything to do about the oxide without melting or ruining my tumbling media, such as putting it in a rotary tumbler with some graphite to coat it?

[kywoodwrkr]

Question in general.
Would the oxide on the shot have any harmful effects to the eater of game taken with this shot?
Assuming a few hours residing in the game.
I never gave much thought to that before.
Is oxide which is digested as harmful as that which is inhaled?
DaveP kywoodwrkr

[joatmon]

If I wanted to load in shotshell's I'd get a small mesh strainer and sift/swirll it alittle (outside of course and stand upwind) since I load slow it would be cost efective for me but maybe not for others.

[versifier]

Question in general.
Would the oxide on the shot have any harmful effects to the eater of game taken with this shot?
Assuming a few hours residing in the game.
I never gave much thought to that before.
Is oxide which is digested as harmful as that which is inhaled?
DaveP kywoodwrkr

Yes, it could have very harmful effects. Lead oxide is much more toxic than pure lead, and dissolves much more readily.
Lead vapors are a direct inhalation hazard, and a very serious one, but we do not heat lead and alloys for casting to the temperatures where it is produced. BUT, when particulate lead or lead oxide is inhaled, it is deposited on mucus membranes in the nose, mouth, and throat, and eventually swallowed. It ends up in the stomach where it is dissolved by the HCl that the stomach produces, and it goes directly into the bloodstream. Likewise if residues are on your hands and you eat, drink, or smoke, they end up in your stomach, too. Lead oxide dissolves much more readily than metallic lead, and with the oxidized shot there is the added danger of possible increased risk of antimony contamination, depending on what caused the oxidation. Antimony is much more toxic than lead.

If I were going to load it in shotshells, I would wash the shot (shake and swirl it in water), then sun dry and graphite it. I would think it should be fine for target shooting, but I would still not be using it for bird hunting if there was any trace of the white oxide visible. Life is too short for unnecessary risks like that. I am much more consious of the risks of exposure to the oxide, and it's more than just a little paranoia.

Personally, I think it a much better plan to melt it down, flux thoroughly, pour into ingots, and cast it into boolits. It'll make you a good sized pile that will yeild many, many good boolits with no more risk than that which is easily avoided with normal precautions.

[44man]

Well said, I was thinking of shooting clays, not hunting. That is good info.

[jonk]

For clays I would just load it up. Shot is expensive these days.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I'm wondering if there is a chemical way to eliminate or neutralize the oxidation?

I ask because after considering the price of shot I'm not convinced I want to melt it, yet I'm concerned, because of the dustiness of the oxidation, that shooting 100 rounds at clays will still result in inhaling the lead oxide...

(We have to use steel for practically all hunting in my area, so I won't be eating any of it, but the answer to my question here might help others...)

[Andy_P]

......Lead vapors are a direct inhalation hazard, and a very serious one, but we do not heat lead and alloys for casting to the temperatures where it is produced......

That is what I have always believed, yet many hold to the "cast only in well-ventilated areas", and some go so far as to wear breathing apparatus, all in the belief that lead fumes are everywhere.

Lead has a very high boiling point (3180F), much higher than we cast at (650-750F), so as I understand it, the lead vapours given off at casting temperatures are (while not 0 ppm) practically undetectable.

[Sundogg1911]

casting at "normal" temp. You are fine with moderate ventilation. I cast in my garage under a range hood. the danger of lead poisoning is much greater from handling lead. If you are casting refrain from smoking, eating snacks, drinking (I keep my pepsi glass in a cabinet under my drill press and only open the door to take a sip) the key is wash your hands before doing anything. handling lead and then grabbin' a smoke is bad. I think that is the biggest danger. Common sense is the most important factor in keeping yourself "Unleaded"

[44man]

The danger when casting, other then handling lead, is the dross you remove after fluxing. That has dust in it you don't want to breath and the biggest reason for ventilation.

[versifier]

That and whatever you use for fluxing. I use old candles or beeswax, and while I don't think them smoke from them is harmful, I don't like working in a cloud of anything. Many other things commonly used to flux may not be so benign. If I'm just working with clean ingots and don't need to flux, I don't always bother to open the garage door for a casting session. (Also my neighbors are more likely to drop by and interrupt my work if they see the door open. Fluxing - even when it's not needed - acts as a good repellant when I don't feel like being social. :-D )

[slughammer]

I think a vibratory tumbler with the lid off will allow the dust and fines to blow away. I don't see the need for any media, the shot would take care of itself. But heck I wouldn't even do this out in the yard. Lead oxide...nasty stuff. No idea where you'd find a safe place to do this with the proper filtered ventilation.

[DLCTEX]

I would be concerned about the oxide dust, whether washed or screened getting deposited anywhere my son or grandchildren may come into contact with it. What do you do with the rinse water? I wouldn't want to pour it on the ground, where does it wind up if it goes down the drain? I would prefer to capture the dust and place it in a container that will be buried deep. We don't need to be careless and give the anti's any excuses. Just my dos centavos. DALE

[MakeMineA10mm]

I would be concerned about the oxide dust, whether washed or screened getting deposited anywhere my son or grandchildren may come into contact with it. What do you do with the rinse water? I wouldn't want to pour it on the ground, where does it wind up if it goes down the drain?

Dale,
Exactly my issue with tumbling, sifting, screening, etc. I feel guilty/worried enough about the dust that was generated moving the stuff from the two 5-gallon buckets in the car trunk to more easily handled containers (1 gal. windshield washer fluid bottles) with a funnel and scoop... I don't want to find a way to pollute my home/yard where my 4-yr-old plays with every bit of lead oxide off of 200 lbs of shot...

HENCE, why I asked about a chemical neutralizer. If no one knows of one, I think I'm going to melt this down. Presuming it's relatively soft shot, it probably is 3% antimony, so I could probably mix it with a very small amount of antimony and have a decent alloy... Could even mix it with WWs and tin (or just straight tin) to get my "normal" alloy of 94.5% lead, 2% tin, 3% antimony, .5% arsenic... Shame to melt it, but it was free, and I can't find the moron who left it uncovered for 20 years to kick his ****...