fedral vs cci primers ?

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I was at the store last night , and bought the last box of cci small pistol primers they had , 2 other guys where in for the same thing they each picked up 1k of the cci 500 when i say i got the last box i got the last box of 100

they had asked about ordering a 10k lot so the shop owner had been checking he can't find any more cci 500 right now all his places to order from are out , but he had a shelf of federal

what do i need to know about using Federal small pistol instead of cci

what should i be watching for

i have only used cci before

i prime with the lee safety prime in on classic cast turret

[rexherring]

I've been shooting both in my .38 and can't tell the difference with my plinking. So, I just buy whatever is cheapest.

[375RUGER]

the only SP primers left here are winchester. I already had some so didn't get any, but I have bought the wins when I was running low.

Get the Feds, they are good.

[9.3X62AL]

Federal SP primers might have a little bit softer cup metal than do CCI SP, but they did very good work for me over the years. Locally, both Rem and Federal primers are difficult to find, while W-W and CCI are stocked in some depth. I go with what I can find.

The rubric to 'lower powder charges with any component change, then work back up' is a sound one. This goes double for loads that are approaching "red line". That's just safe practice. While I saw no significant differences between CCI, W-W, and Federal SP primer results, this DOES NOT justify a short-cut on safety. A 50-to-100 round test sequence that verifies safe ammo is time and effort well-spent.

IIRC, the Federal 100 primers gave me the smallest SDs with Hornady HBWCs in 38 Special that I ran through a K-38 x 6" some years ago. The Load was 3.0 grains of WW-231 into W-W wadcutter brass, in a "CCI vs. W-W vs. Federal" primer shoot-off. All 3 loads had equal accuracy at 25 and 50 yards, and I didn't use a Ransom Rest.

[joec]

I use everything but Federal only due to Lee doesn't suggest using them with some self priming systems they sell. I mostly buy Winchester or CCI only because they are fairly easy to find around me. I've also used Wolf and Remington and they worked fine too. I really would have no problem with Federal primer using the Lee Classic turret press but started with a Lee Pro 1000 so headed the warning label that came in the instructions.

[GBertolet]

If you are shooting a tuned revolver that has a lightened hammer spring, get the Federal primers, as they have a more sensative priming compound mix, and are easier to light off. Other than that, performance wise, there is no real difference between the major primer brands.

[captaint]

I have a revolver that I have to load Federal small PP's for. They do have a softer cup. Any other primers in this particular gun, I get 99% ignition. With the Federals, it's 1000%. Never had any problems with them in any gun. I always keep some around. enjoy Mike

[bob208]

i will use federal before i even think about cci. many years ago when i did a lot of reloading i had trouble with cci not going off. after talking to them many times i got the answer their primers were harder than any bodyelse's i have a bounch of cci in an ammo can that i am scard to use. i mite try them for plinking loads now that i have the time to mess with them.

[mortre]

I've use CCI, and generally buy them by the 1,000 as they are not that expensive as far as component's go. 1,000 primers is a far cry cheaper than 8 lbs jugs of powder.

Those quantities are overkill for me, but I am starting to buy component's in large quantities because it seems like I was always going from 1 lot to another. Either a new lot of powder, or a new lot of bullets, or a new lot of primers. But buying bulk has saved me from the component/lot # switching hassle for the most part. Still haven't found an 8 lbs jug of H4895 so that's the one that still bites me in the rear end. That's the powder I use for my j-bullet hunting loads so I go through it faster than anything else. Less than 200 rounds per lbs.

[1Shirt]

I have had better luck with Fed SP primers over any other brand for 38S and for my Hornet and K-hornet. I use them with the lee hand prime tool, but am very careful and so far, so good.
1Shirt!

[9.3X62AL]

If you are shooting a tuned revolver that has a lightened hammer spring, get the Federal primers, as they have a more sensative priming compound mix, and are easier to light off. Other than that, performance wise, there is no real difference between the major primer brands.

I knew about the softer cup metal, but not about this. Good to know. Thank you!

[MtGun44]

+1 on Al's last post. Not more sensitive compound, softer cup. Definitely the
required primer for the light hammer spring revolver guys.

Bill

[dmize]

Only gripe I have with Federal is the certified jackaxx that designed their packaging.

[imashooter2]

+1 on Al's last post. Not more sensitive compound, softer cup. Definitely the
required primer for the light hammer spring revolver guys.

Bill

No, not softer cup, more sensitive priming compound.

[44man]

I like Fed primers and even use them with all of my over power hammer springs.
CCI's work fine too.
I have used Fed forever with Lee tools, I don't know why they warn about them????? None of my Lee tools had the warning but I would ignore it anyway. Must be a million Fed's through my tools!
Long ago a large lot was being shipped, UPS if I remember. The box was tossed into the truck and went off. Fed changed the box.
With all the labels on the box, it takes STUPID to throw the box! ;)

[daniel lawecki]

Ive used fed cci rem Im using tula primers right now. I bought 20,000 when powder valley had them on sale no haz or shipping fee at the time. The 15.00 dollar per 1,000 primers have worked great in all my guns So i juet think its up to what you perfer. I worked up my load data as you should with any change in primer or bullet change

[bobthenailer]

After using untold thousands of Federal primers over the years ive never had a problem and they are my prefered brand of primer. i would only buy CCI Or Win if i needed primers right away or they were at a good price , But ive never had a problem with them either when used.

[Recluse]

No, not softer cup, more sensitive priming compound.

According to a ballistician I talked to at ATK, the cup AND compound are both slightly more sensitive--but the cup moreso. Because of the incredibly minuscule amounts of compound used, "sensitivity" to percussion is critical, so the cup plays just as significant a role.

That is some scary stuff. I played with C4 in the military and we often times used it to heat up our c-rats--it burns like sterno. Some years later in federal law enforcement, I got to mess with some C5. Impressive.

Those EOD and kablooey boys and girls have my absolute respect and admiration.

During my IPSC days, I shot a Smith & Wesson 686 with a trigger job to absolutely swoon, cry and die for. BUT, the first time I was at a practice match and using my ammo loaded with CCI small pistol primers, I had one FTF after another after another.

Switched the Winchester primer ammo and they reduced drastically.

Started loading my competition ammo with Federal and they (the FTFs) went away completely.

For my personal self-defense ammo, I only use Federal primers.

:coffee:

[Ilwil]

I have several revolvers with "tuned triggers" and lightened hammer falls. If I use Win or CCI primers in them, I am guaranteed it will take several rotations of the cylinder for them to light off. Consequently, I use Federal or Remington primers only for them. I cannot say whether they have softer cups or more sensitive mixtures, but I suspect it is softer cups that makes them work.

[gofastman]

CCI500's are hard to find around here too, I wonder if its a northern states thing?

I know ATK, the owners of CCI and Federal Ammo (Im not sure if Federal primers are made by them)
received an order for 450,000,000 rounds of Federal .40 HST ammo from the Dept. of Homeland Security.
I wonder is they are focusing their efforts there.


Only gripe I have with Federal is the certified jackaxx that designed their packaging.
+1, what is up with that???

The other problem I had with Fed 100's was piercing of the primer cup on some too hot .40 Blue Dot loads, the CCI 500 had no problem with that same load. I have since backed off quite a bit from that recipe :mrgreen:

I bought 1k of Remington 1 1/2 to tide me over for now, I hope the're ok, i have never used them before

[Edub]

Only gripe I have with Federal is the certified jackaxx that designed their packaging.

+1!

http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad336/ericwallace87/Reloading/IMAGE_325.jpg
http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad336/ericwallace87/Reloading/IMAGE_327.jpg

And the thing I hate most about Federal's packaging the darn child safety lock:
http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad336/ericwallace87/Reloading/IMAGE_329.jpg

The packaging sucks but I like the primers though. I haven't had any problems with them.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I like Fed primers and even use them with all of my over power hammer springs.
CCI's work fine too.
I have used Fed forever with Lee tools, I don't know why they warn about them????? None of my Lee tools had the warning but I would ignore it anyway. Must be a million Fed's through my tools!
Long ago a large lot was being shipped, UPS if I remember. The box was tossed into the truck and went off. Fed changed the box.
With all the labels on the box, it takes STUPID to throw the box! ;)

lesson 1 about all shippers , they at least in this area hired tech school students who worked the unload at 3-7 am they started on a trailer grabbing boxes as fast as they could and tossing them out the back to the converter belt when i was in school we had several guys including 2 of my roommates that worked for ups fed-ex and rps this was some years ago, it was all about how fast you could get the truck empty and get on the next one they would come to class at 7:30am still ringing wet even in the winter , they aren't reading anything just go as fast as they can to get done.
my father in law worked for USPS retired a while back he didn't load the trucks with much more concern for what he was tossing into that spot near the ceiling of the truck just that it looked like it would fit and he could lob it in to the hole he showed me his box tossing skills when he helped us move from our first apartment.
now my dad was a UPS driver for many years , he would read boxes he would also check them for addresses and organize his truck , in the pre electronic board/pad days and actually even after the first boards came out just before he retired.

so pack everything like you expect it to get thrown at each transfer point to the destination.





thanks for the info on the primers

[Mike H]

Seems to me,it is a revolver spring problem,more than a primer problem.
Mike

[imashooter2]

Seems to me,it is a revolver spring problem,more than a primer problem.
Mike

A revolver with a smooth 5 pound 8 ounce DA pull that lights Federal primers 100% of the time doesn't have a spring problem...

[44man]

A revolver with a smooth 5 pound 8 ounce DA pull that lights Federal primers 100% of the time doesn't have a spring problem...
That is fine for general shooting and I agree a gun sure feels good that way. Double action speed shooting at close range.
It is when you shoot long range and for small revolver groups that you will see a weak spring reduces accuracy. It is not hammer speed but a real FAST hammer also hits good. A good spring that is light but has a fast rebound is OK.
I shot IHMSA for years and I would see accuracy drop off so I replaced the hammer spring to get it back. I changed springs at least once a year. I always used Fed primers and even they need a certain impact to be consistent.
Then I picked up a BR book and read about a shooter with a new rifle. The action alone was over $700 and had the best barrel.
He shot one hole groups but all of a sudden he started spraying the targets. He went back to the brass and bullets, worked everything but the gun got worse. Then one day the firing pin and shroud popped out the back of the bolt. It had been unscrewing. He tightened it back and shot one hole again. He made a chart for each spring pressure and could tell you the size of the group as he loosened the pin spring.
It confirmed what my revolvers were doing so now I use over power. I have seen new revolvers shoot poor while another shot great so I changed the spring and both would then shoot good.
I actually change the spring on a new gun before working loads.

[David2011]

Federal primers make my slicked up Trooper Mk III work 100%. CCIs are very unreliable in that gun. Conclusion: It doesn't matter of the cup is softer or the compound is more sensitive. It goes off more easily, period.

In my IPSC STI I started using CCIs after Jimmy Mitchell told me how much better they work in Dillon presses than other primers. He was right. I have far fewer problems loading with CCIs in a Dillon 650 than I had with Federal, Winchester or Remington. They just slip into the primer pocket more easily. The Colt revolver has a very light trigger pull for a revolver due to a Bullseye mainspring. The STI has a full power mainspring and a 2 lb. trigger. There are many reasons to choose a particular primer so use what works for you.

I would not use the Colt as it's currently configured for anything but fun shooting.

David

[imashooter2]

That is fine for general shooting and I agree a gun sure feels good that way. Double action speed shooting at close range.
It is when you shoot long range and for small revolver groups that you will see a weak spring reduces accuracy. It is not hammer speed but a real FAST hammer also hits good. A good spring that is light but has a fast rebound is OK.
I shot IHMSA for years and I would see accuracy drop off so I replaced the hammer spring to get it back.

-snip additional good information-

I don't doubt this for an instant, but USPSA with a 12 pound DA pull is a tough game. I suppose the answer really depends on the question. :-)

[WRideout]

i will use federal before i even think about cci. many years ago when i did a lot of reloading i had trouble with cci not going off. after talking to them many times i got the answer their primers were harder than any bodyelse's i have a bounch of cci in an ammo can that i am scard to use. i mite try them for plinking loads now that i have the time to mess with them.

I had the same problem with CCI primers in my stock S&W mod 19. Nowadays I mostly use Win SP primers, but I wouldn't hesitate to use Fed.
Wayne

[blackthorn]

As a point of intrest, this is a bit of information on primers gleaned from another thread, relating to a conversation on June 14, 2009 with CCI's tech department discussing the technical differences between their primer types. With respect specifically to the cup thickness, formula differences, and formula amount differences between their #500 (SP), #550 (SPM), and #400 (SR);
●Cup thickness: The #500 has a thinner cup than either the #550 or #400; however, both the #550 and #400 have the same cup dimensions (including thickness).
●Flash powder formula: All three sizes use the same formula for the flash powder.
●Flash powder amount: The #500 has a slightly smaller amount (3 micrograms) than the #550 or #400 which both have the same amount.
The tech rep confirmed that on comparison, the SR primers could be used as an acceptable substitute for the SPM primers because the #550 and #400 appeared to have the same specs, same dimensions, same cup thickness, same formula, and same amount of flash powder. Further the SPM primers were slightly taller than the SP primers and were exactly the same dimensions as the #400. Information from CCI indicated that SR primers were suitable for reloading both rifle and pistol magnum or not. The only exception being for custom pistols where the thicker rifle cup contributed to misfires, which has only been documented as a problem occurring in custom race pistols.

[44man]

Lot of good stuff. Cup thickness does vary and mag primers will have a tiny bit more compound, not much but just enough.
I want to make something up other then a boolit to measure any small differences in pressure. A boolit has too much friction when it enters rifling and gas goes out the gap.
I have seen the .500 S&W with rifle primers fail to light one even with 3 hits. The compound was busted and no longer under the anvil.
It is like a .22 that the compound was not spun all around the rim. There is nothing left to ignite.