S&W M25-5 Cylinder Throat Problem

[nicholst55]

I've got a sweet-looking S&W M25-5 .45 Colt revolver with the typical problem - oversize throats. Mine mike right at .456, though I've heard of them going as large as .458". Understandably, this is not conducive to good cast boolit accuracy in a gun with a .452" groove diameter barrel.

Short of replacing the cylinder, I can't think of a solution to this dilemma except for either finding a hollow base mold, or buying a custom mold to throw .458" diameter bullets. Or, I guess I could also shoot a softer alloy boolit at lower velocity, and see how that works.

The gun shoots jacketed stuff pretty well, but I hate to pay the price for jacketed bullets.

Does anyone know of a source for a hollow base mold? Otherwise I'll be looking for a group buy on a mold when my budget allows, which it simply doesn't right now.

[Dr. A]

I've got a 25-5 with throats right at .456 as well. They shoot well with store bought bullets. (Remington cast) :roll: Before this, I just used my cast unsized. The remingtons seem to bump up just fine. There was an article in Handloader about these bullets in the last two months you should look up.

[beagle]

Think NEI still lists a HB 250 grainer for the .45 Colt.

If you pick up a old Lyman 454190, most cast about .454". You may be able to "beagle" them up another .002"./beagle

[Bass Ackward]

I've got a sweet-looking S&W M25-5 .45 Colt revolver with the typical problem - oversize throats. Mine mike right at .456, though I've heard of them going as large as .458". Understandably, this is not conducive to good cast boolit accuracy in a gun with a .452" groove diameter barrel.

The gun shoots jacketed stuff pretty well, but I hate to pay the price for jacketed bullets.

Does anyone know of a source for a hollow base mold? Otherwise I'll be looking for a group buy on a mold when my budget allows, which it simply doesn't right now.


Nick,

You make a lot of assumptions here. You .... may .... be worried about a problem that you do not have.

I own a 29 Smith with .433 throats and a .429 bore. Works better than some other 44s that I have that are within .001. Designs are sized anywhere between .429 and .431. If you shoot that 45 Colt at wide open 45 Colt pressures, you won't need over 14 BHN for anything anyway. Truth is, you probably got the king of soft leaders. You won't need over 50/50 ww / pure (@8 BHN) if you pick a GC design.

An option is to buy some different bullet designs that add up to like a 500, bulk bullet purchase. I would get them all sized .454. Then get a Lee .452 sizer for about $12 and play around and see what happens. We have a custom commercial caster at the bottom of this site. Maybe he will mold just about anything you want and may put a package together for you separated in plastic bags. Beats buying several molds to answer all the questions you need first. What if the gun just won't shoot PB for some reason? What if it needs fire lapped and you end up having to open the bore to .454 anyway?

You have a few questions that can and should be answered first and a few trials to conduct. I will bet that you don't have the problem that you think you do. Contact Dan at the bottom of the home opage and ask him what he can do for you.

[BruceB]

For a while, I had a 25-5. Bought it brand-new, in the presentation case, for $400 in '99.

I messed with it for about six years, spending quite a bit on moulds etc. without really obtaining a lot of success, and finally traded it off.

I believe that now, considering that it's only 35 or 40 grains heavier than "standard", I'd try a Lyman 457191. Nominally 292 grains, this is intended as a .45 rifle bullet, but I'd be willing to bet that it'd work great in a 25-5. I believe the design is still current in the Lyman line-up. This would allow you to size DOWN if necessary, rather than trying to 'inflate' your bullets to fit.

For that matter, in light of the present trend to heavier bullets in .44s and .45s, why not mooch some 330-grain 457122 "Gould" hollowpoints from someone here, and try them? I'm not recommending hot-rodding the 25-5 as some folks do with their Rugers etc., but just nice authoritative loads in the 900 fps range would be kinda nice....

[Larry Gibson]

I agree with Bass, you may be searching for an answer to a problem that really doesn't exist. I've had good accuracy out of several .45 Colt revolvers (including a nice old S&W) that had cylinder throats .002-.004" over the barrel. I used a FLAT based bullet cast of WWs and sized as cast at either .452 or .454. I've used Lyman's 200 SWC, Lee's 190 gr SWCs, RCBS 45-250-K and commercial H&Gs (back when you could get commercial flat based bullets) 68s. Another thing I use is a soft lube (Javelina) as the hard wax lubes lead like crazy at low velocity with undersized bullets. I know Venturino published an article where he had accuracy problems with a couple SAA's with "oversize throats" but "fitting the throat" always isn't necessary as everyone wants to think these days. You might want to shoot that revlver with some good flat based cast bullets lubed with Javelina or LLA before you decide you must sink a lot of money into it or special moulds.

Larry Gibson

[S.R.Custom]

I've done this dance with more Smith & Wessons than I care to remember--including some 45 ACP converted Eleys--and in every single instance, the revolver shot its best with bullets properly sized to the throats-- that is, .001" over throat diameter.

That said, there are a few moulds you might want to look at, the most notable being the RCBS 265 gr .456" hollow base bullet for the .455 Webley (45-265-RN-HB). Also, the Saeco #452 is a 300 gr. SWC that throws right at .456 as well.

While we're at it, all the major MFRs make 300gr. rifle bullets which throw at about .458" or so... You have a number of options before having to resort to a custom mould...

The only problem I see with using .456" or .457" sized bullets in that revolver is that you may have a chambering difficulty with bullets that fat; brass choice becomes critical. I've found that Remington brand tends to be the thinnest at the case mouth...

[leftiye]

Get a model 29 cylinder on evilbay. There are a couple on there now. Look under hunting, and search for "S&W cylinder". Ream them out (or have it done) to a nice minimum chamber .45 acp, or Colt. If you watch long enough you can find the reamer there (evilbay) too. Then you'll have a match chamber. Don't forget to fit the cylinder too.

[nicholst55]

Some good advice and options. I'd thought of using a nominal .458" diameter bullet, and also considered the possibility of chambering problems with them. I'll get busy and do some more shooting, and see what this gun likes. I believe I'll buy some pre-cast 458" 300 grainers and see how/if they work. I can always shoot them through my .45-70 if I need to.

I already have an 'extra' M629 cylinder that I bought on flea-bay for another project. Fitting and rechambering it is an option, but one that I'd prefer to avoid for various reasons.

I've got a box of bevel-base .454s that I mistakenly bought a while back - I intended to order .452s. They chamber and shoot well through my Ruger, so that's what I'd been using them for. I'll have to look around for flat base or gas check .454s and try them in the Smith.