Cast bullets with foil

[David LaPell]

I read an article in Handloader from June 2009 that showed how to cast bullets using foil to help give the bullet a better expansion. Has anyone done this with handgun bullets?

[Guesser]

I was shown an example of this just two weeks ago. It was a bullet cast for a 40-65. He had placed foil between the mold halves and cast. He said he has varied the thickness of the foil. I was just standing there amazing.

[Sasquatch-1]

I was shown an example of this just two weeks ago. It was a bullet cast for a 40-65. He had placed foil between the mold halves and cast. He said he has varied the thickness of the foil. I was just standing there amazing.

OK you have peaked my curriosity. Does he just slide a flat sheet of Aluminum foil between the halfs and trim it off the bullet after it cools? What effect does it have on the bullet in flight and on impact?

[troy_mclure]

I've done it with a .44 .240gr mould. It did not open up in the 3 water jugs it went thru. It was I deformed in the sand bags behind the target. I used lyman #2 alloy at 1200fps.

[45 2.1]

OK you have peaked my curriosity. Does he just slide a flat sheet of Aluminum foil between the halfs and trim it off the bullet after it cools? What effect does it have on the bullet in flight and on impact?

Its a very old idea........ called a split nosed boolit. As long as you don't split the nose too far down, it flies like a normal boolit and on impact the split portion usually separates from the main boolit body creating secondary projectiles. Split it too far and it comes apart in flight (you can here it buzz after a side comes off). The exposed paper or tin foil is cut or pealed of the boolit nose after cooling and processed normally.

[MT Gianni]

In an old copy of The American Rifleman there was an article of a man that used check stub paper. He claimed good results but said to make sure that no one was in front of the muzzle in a 10 foot radius as occasionally the boolit would come apart upon exiting the muzzle and go anywhere. I sort of lost interest then. I used to claim it was in the Sept 67 issue but rereading that issue i don't see it there.

[1Shirt]

I have done it with alum foil and with onion skin paper in 45-70, by putting a strip of the material about a quarter of an inch wide a little from the nose of the bullet (about a 16th of an inch or so) and triming the foil or paper after it comes out of the mold. I worked fine with a 405 grain Ohas blt, and a friend used in on a deer out of my #1 Ruger with black powder, so would estimate maybe 1200-1300 fps or so. He said it made a 45 cal hole going in, and about an inch hole on exit. I did not see the deer, so can't vouch for him and his estimate. However if so, would guess tha the front (maybe 1/4 of an inch or so broke off shortly after impact inside the deer and the balance of the projectile went on thru. The few that I made and shot did shoot accurately on paper with a clean 45 cal hold. It was an expriment only however, and saw no need to repeat it. As far as I am concerned a nice flat nosed 45 cal projectile at between 12-15 Bh, driven at between 1200 and 1500 fps is probably adequate for anything in the lower 48.
1Shirt!

[jwhite]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=38175&highlight=split+nose

Above is a link to some testing with pictures that I posted several years ago.

JW

[mpmarty]

Old wives tale or not, I recall using cigarette paper in a mold to separate the two halves of the casting. Trick shooter would then fire the round at a knife held by an assistant and the paper target behind the knife would "prove" the shooter had hit the knife as some stupid range.

[John in WI]

here are some experiments I was doing with my 4" .38 special. The lead was dead soft (no tin or antimony), above 4.5gr Unique. I don't have a chrono, but the book says the speed should be about 800fps.

The lower right are my split tips. Some of them were nearly torn in half and probably expanded about 3 times. But it seems more often than not one of the tips breaks off (upper 2) and sometimes both break off. These were shot into wet phone books at about 12 feet. Penetration about 9"

Like a dummy, the one that expanded to a perfect "dog leg" V got re-melted before I got out the camera!

I posted something on here a while back about adding some tin to help toughen up the alloy so it could deform without actually breaking. To toughen it without really hardening it. I recast some at about 3% tin, but haven't tested them yet.

Anyway, they will require a lot more testing, but if I can dial in the hardness I would seriously trust them for a short range SD load. (notice the upper right pictures--drilled HPs that didn't expand--I need more speed and a bigger hollow, me thinks)



I like the idea.http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_22299500ca7ecf08bd.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6014)

[heathydee]

I played with this concept a lot about six months ago with the aim of having a sub-sonic 30 caliber boolit provide good terminal performance . Results were mediocre until the split boolit was augmented with a small hollow point to initiate expansion .
Boolits tore into three pieces upon impact into half gallon containers full of water . The front breaking into two pieces and the solid base being the third. Several boolits were tried but best results came from the Lee 200 grain offering which gave good accuracy out of several rifles .
Here is a link to the thread.
http://garagegunsmithing.com/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=54&jfile=viewtopic.php&f=32&t=1557
Performance was videoed and is on Youtube here.First an unmodified boolit .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=App1keMEMVc&feature=autoplay&list=UUdza0w1OiFq1ByUehsRXzdA&playnext=1
The final attempt shows a remarkable difference in performance .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buprWD66MTQ&list=UUdza0w1OiFq1ByUehsRXzdA&index=1&feature=plcp

[John in WI]

I checked out the youtube videos. Were you happy with the boolit breaking up into 3 pieces? I'm mostly recovering boolits that break off one tip but the broken off piece doesn't seem to have a whole lot of penetration. I guess out of my .38 I'd prefer it if they would stick together and keep moving forward as 1 mass.

My first trials were with dead soft lead and middle of the road charge of Unique. This next time around I'm trying 2% tin, and also a softer range scrap with 1% added tin. Then I'm trying them at 800, 850, and 900 fps. Hopefully there is a "sweet spot" in there of hardness vs. speed. I was surprised at how 100% of the split tips I tested expanded, while only 3 out of 12 of the hollow points did.

The only real issue I had was that it takes so long fiddling around to get the paper aligned in the mold that the mold got cold between pours, so I tried to compensate by running the lead a little hot. A few wrinkles that got thrown right back in to the pot but pretty good success. I hope to test the idea further this summer. The expansion was nothing to sneeze at, and getting slammed through 2 waterlogged Milwaukee phone books would make it a good close range thumper! (my lee drops 162gr SWCs)

[heathydee]

I checked out the youtube videos. Were you happy with the boolit breaking up into 3 pieces? I'm mostly recovering boolits that break off one tip but the broken off piece doesn't seem to have a whole lot of penetration. I guess out of my .38 I'd prefer it if they would stick together and keep moving forward as 1 mass.

I was fairly pleased with the penetration I achieved in both wet paperbacks and a slab of ballistic gel I mixed up . The two wings of the boolit weighing about 45 grns each , departed at an angle of about 30 degrees from the original track and penetrated eight inches or so . The base of the boolit weighing around 100 grns kept on track and penetrated a little farther .
The idea behind the whole deal was to get energy expended in the target with the aim of achieving humane kills on reasonably sized game ; feral goats being my target of choice here in Australia . I have used unmodified sub-sonic 30 calibre boolits on game in the past and have had very few instant kills with chest shots ; the usual result being an in and out 30 cal. hole with the goat bleeding out a couple of minutes later .
I have yet to try the modified boolits on game but expect a much better terminal effect .
There is no reason why the split/hollowpoint modification could not be used with a harder alloy at higher velocity but I have yet to experiment at anything other than the low speed application .

[JoeTheMechanic]

in light of getting laid off last week :| i've though about playing with this for some SHTF ammo to feed my 60y/o 5" smith .38, since it doesnt look like i will be buying guns for awhile. or a hallow point mold

i was thinking that with something soft like range scrap you could get really good expansion without going +p, since im afraid much of that would be rough on my old k frame. a (non+p) max load of HS6 should push my 158swc close to 1000fps, which would probably rip an 8 BHN split nose boolit apart, imparting alot of energy in the process. however, have yet to try it. partly because im fairly certain of the results, less accuracy and less energy deposit than a hallow point, but with interesting wound tracts.

one idea i had that was inspired by the split nose boolit was to put a small glass bead on a thread and center it in the nose to create something of a hallow point/ballistic tip.

[John in WI]

Hi Joe,
My 158gr SWCs aren't going nearly 1000fps, and the expansion so far has been 100% successful with water jugs, phone books, and pine boards. I've gone down as far as 4.5gr Unique and they seem to work great with dead soft lead and a bit of lead/tin solder in them. The book is saying that should be a speed of around 800fps out of a 4" .38.

I bought some HS6 because the rated speeds were really impressive, but by every account I read, nobody with a chrono got even close to what they were reporting--mostly they reported making a mess of unburned powder.

Anyway, my non-+P split tips hammer through denim and 2 soaked Milwaukee phone books (about 8") before being stopped by plywood on the opposite side. I wouldn't hesitate to put them through a vintage Smith (in good working condition). I'm not convinced that you need to "hot rod" a split tip to get impressive deformation. My results so far have shown it does very well at tame velocities.

It seems to me that you have a little bit of control over how much they open up depending on how far back you place the paper in the mold. My first ones were from the meplate all the way back to nearly the lube groove. And those DO nearly tear in half. My next experiments, I think I'm going with bit harder alloy (range scrap + solder) and splitting them maybe 3/4 of the way back from the tip to the shoulder.

Keep us informed if you go ahead and test them. I think it's a viable idea for defensive loadings, and mine so far have not suffered from failure to expand (regardless of denim, plywood, or the ballistic medium).