i want to try a flint lock

[unclebill]

i just decided that i want to buy a flintlock rifle kit.
and while i realize i get what i pay for
i have very little moolah
so what kits should i avoid because of crappy barrels ,actions etc.
and which are good for the money?
thanks folks!
__________________
p.s.
which would be a good beginner caliber?
mostly for lead savings.

[kullas]

I am thinking somewhat of the same thing i will be watching :popcorn:

[docone31]

First off, get some DVDs. They will help immensly.
I would build my rifle from parts, but starting on a kit will make it easier to build a real one later.
However, for a first one, I would go with an uninletted stock.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/GunKit.aspx/604/1/EARLY-HAWKEN-FULLSTOCK-FLINT-PARTS-LIST
You can also make it convertable from Flint to percussion.
I am building a Southern Mountain Rifle from an old CVA .45 capper.
You can also restock a traditions .50 kit. Rather than going Drum or bolster, you could convert it to fling with a touch hole liner and lock.
Lots of directions there.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/50-cal-kentucky-rifle-kit.aspx?a=394783
You could go with that kit and swap out for the flint. Go with a touch hole liner, and leave the slot to convert to percussion and back. That is what was done back then.
The barrel makes a good platform. The breech plug is held in by the drum.
Definately get some DVDs.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

In my humble opinion, cheap flinters are a disaster waiting to happen. Slow lock time, hangfires, etc.

Take a look at TVM's kits. There's a saying, you get what you pay for, or a bit less...


Rich

[waksupi]

Let's at it this way. The things to look for, is a good barrel. That can run you up to $250 or thereabouts. A swamped barrel makes a great difference in how the rifle handles.
A good lock will go around $140. I recommend Chambers locks at the time, as I think they are currently the best on the market, although they still need a bit of tuning to be their best.
Stock prices vary greatly. Most originals were pretty plain wood, although the modern trend is for higher grade wood.
If you order the parts a bit at a time, order the stock first, the barrel second, lock and small parts third. This is the order in which it generally takes the most time to get the parts. If you call a company, ask if all the parts are in stock,if you want everything at once. I have waited for over eight months to get stocks and barrels, that suppliers lied to me and said they were in stock, or would be sent within a week of ordering.

[1Shirt]

First suggest you talk with flint shooters in your area (if there are any), and get their opinion, and maybe try their rifles. There are many who, when I was shooting front stuffers competitivly that called them "flinchlocks", and for good reason, if you are not a rock steady shooter. A good well tuned flinter will shoot as fast as a percussion, but they are more sensitive. Quality flints, and a well tuned lock, and a properly hardened frizzen are essential to good results. Good luck!
1Shirt!

[405]

You can build from parts or a kit. Being a first time-- I'd be tempted to go with a kit. Be prepared to go slow and read, re-read then read again a good set of instructions. Did I mention be patient and go slow? Refer to good photos of examples, both of current and of old originals, for basic form.

Suppliers like Track of the Wolf and TVM, to name a couple, are good outfits. I too would concentrate on getting a good barrel and good lock. I like old Silers (if you can find one) and currently the modern Chambers locks are good. I have used all manner of barrels- Rice, H&H, Rayl and deHaas. Rayl and deHaas barrels are still available on a hit or miss basis. Not sure about Rice. H&H is no more. My recommendation is to go with at least a 40 or 45 caliber and try to match the caliber to the barrel diameter within reason for best handling and feel. Obviously, within any barrel diameter at a set length... the larger the bore the lighter the barrel. Seems juvenile to bring it up since it's so simple but it is often over-looked in the equation.

This past winter I used a 45 cal deHaas barrel for the last flinter I built. It is a super shooter.

[JeffinNZ]

Here is my take.

You can spend all the money you like on a premium barrel and a nice bit of wood but if the lock is not slick as butter on silk then you are wasting your time. I would rather have a highly tuned locked attached to a 2x4 with a cheap barrel than a dud lock on a anything else.

[sffar]

You can save money with less fancy wood, fewer fittings like patchboxes and stuff and still have a great shooter and good looking rifle. The more inletting that's done for you, the more money as well. I'd read up on what style or era you're interested in–what you want to shoot with it. Go from there, but get a high quality barrel and lock that suit your desired rifle. The muzzleloadingforum has lots of information, though there's lots of arguing about authenticity and such.
Don't forget smoothbores!
Sam

[Marvin S]

Tell us what school or style you are interested in and if a straight barrel is okay or a swamped is needed. I am fond of the 38" Issac Haines swamped.

[waksupi]

The new Silers are made by Chambers now, and the geometry is better than Bud's locks were. Jim lengthened the hammer about a quarter inch, giving it a longer throw, and giving better alignment with the pan making it more dependable than the older ones.

[405]

The new Silers are made by Chambers now, and the geometry is better than Bud's locks were. Jim lengthened the hammer about a quarter inch, giving it a longer throw, and giving better alignment with the pan making it more dependable than the older ones.

Whatever. The issue likely doesn't apply to first time builders currently looking for new part and/or kits. The earlier reference to older Silers is for information only.

The last Siler lock I used was a parts lock so I have no idea of its mix or match geometry. It works very well. I know it has mostly all machined parts. I also know that Chambers does the current "Siler". I put a current Chambers Siler on the last flinter I put together. It works very well. But, unless I'm mistaken the current Chambers Siler locks use mostly cast parts.

[Marvin S]

One thing is for sure is it can be easy to turn a $1000.00 worth of parts into a $500.00 rifle. So do as suggested and take it slow and think about when you drill a hole where will it go into and come out of. Tight in letting is king.

[x101airborne]

I wish I knew more about kits. I have only had a pedersoli flinter and I am quite pleased with it for a production gun.

[DIRT Farmer]

Buy the best metal you can afford and think about your wood skills. I have one gun set in yellow pine, just because I could. If I remember, the 2 X 6 set me back about $4. I have a nice piece of gum that I am slowly gnawing on, from guns I have seen, the wood will look nice if I do my part and it is as close to a garontee it will not split.

[wgr]

i put a lyman kit togather . shoots better than i can

[Boerrancher]

There are lots of good suggestions here and I am going to add mine as well. I have been shooting MLs for over 30 years, since I was a kid, but never messed with flinters until about 9 months ago. I now have two, because I like them so well and am looking for a third. You didn't mention in your post about how much experience you have with ML's. If your Muzzleloading experience is none, or only with a modern inline, then you need to rethink the whole flintlock thing. With a traditional ML there are many variables that play into accuracy. I have picked up some nice cap locks over the years for practically pennies on the dollar because the owners couldn't hit the side of a barn with them. It was not the fault of the gun, it was because the owner didn't know and understand how to overcome all of the issues that are inherently in traditional MLs. When you throw a rock and a flash pan in to the mix, you have just doubled the issues you will have to overcome to shoot reliably and accurately.

Now that I have tried to talk you out of a rock lock, if you are still determined to get one, for your first I would suggest you buy a good used one and get use to shooting it. Even if it is an old CVA or Traditions flinter. There are plenty of them out there that can be had rather inexpensively if you look, and parts are easy to come by. Learn to shoot it and work through all of the problems that go hand in hand with shooting a flinter. My first flinter was a put together Hawken of some sort. It has a custom stock and accoutrements, a custom lock, and a CVA Barrel. The advise of the others about a good lock is on target. Once you have gotten use to having a fireball in your face each time you pull the trigger, and can continue to hold the gun steady and not flinch when it happens, and have learned how to deal with all of the inherent problems that come with shooting traditional MLs and especially flinters, then start looking for a better more expensive gun to either buy or build. I have literally seen first time ML shooters get so frustrated with their gun that they turn it into a club against the nearest oak tree. Senseless really, but some were never meant to own a front stuffer.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Maven]

Although I have and shoot 2 FL's, one of them a high $$ kit put together by Waksupi, I'm inclined to agree with wgr and Boerrancher. Firstly, why spend a lot of $$ on a FL kit when you don't even know whether you'll like shooting it? Secondly, I know I don't have the skills required to assemble one, but ask yourself whether you have the ability, patience, time, and tools to do so. Third, the Lyman (Investarms) Great Plains FL's, fully assembled or kits, are accurate and well-made rilfes, but the lock and vent liner need a bit of tweaking.* Some would say the trigger does too. (An aftermarket almost drop-in R.E. Davis hunting trigger is ~$40 if you don't want to keep the original.) Moreover, there's a great deal of information on the web** about assembling a Lyman GPR kit and improving the lock if you're so inclined. Lyman guns, while not strictly prototypical of any specific type, are much better in reality than their critics would have you believe.


*One modification is to polish all the inner surfaces of the lock to reduce friction and improve lock time. Another is to simply put a ~1/8" leather or wood shim (paint stirrers come to mind) under the flint to raise it and improve the lock geometry and reliability. As for the vent liner, you don't necessarily need to enlarge the touchhole itself, trial and error will tell you that; but you DO want to form a cone via a countersink and/or appropriate sized drill bit on the inner and outer surfaces [of the removable vent liner] to improve reliability.


** For example, http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/fusionbb.php

[Dean D.]

A whole passel of good advice here. I'd have to agree completely with Maven's comments too. I have 2 flinters, a Lyman GPR and a Lancaster I built using Track of the Wolf's "John Bivens" parts set. The Lancaster is by far my favorite but with that said I have to say the GPR shoots better than I can.

Good luck no matter what you choose. Oh, and by the way....it's VERY addicting!

[felix]

You will not shoot the flinters often if your personality is of sensitivity/nervy/excitable type. If you can handle show-time acid rock with glee or can handle heavy movie sound tracks on a bone-fide hi-fi system without jumping, you will love the notability of a flinter. ... felix

[Hanshi]

Yep, get a kit. TVM, NSW, Lyman, there are some good to great kits out there.

[unclebill]

hmmm
wow
an avalanche of good information!
it looks like a need a percussion before i get a flint lock
i will for sure buy a kit (and it will HAVE to be a cheap one)
i like building things and this seems like a really cool thing to play with.
i am pretty good at building cars (hotrods and antique jeeps mostly)
so i am fairly handy
but the money will keep me from going nuts
i cant afford to spend a months wages on anything
let alone another toy.

thanks for the great advice and info gents!