I goofed

[Bad Water Bill]

I started with 200 LC 06 brass and worked them down to 221 Fireball. Now they were very hard to do any neck sizing to as I was actually into the body of a military brass. Using the colored paints for temp I tried to anneal them before neck sizing to 20 VAR TARG.

Now when I try to neck size them the neck goes into the body. Something got to soft. :bigsmyl2:

My question is can I save 200 221 Fireball brass by fire forming them using PB?

Also what would be a suggested load to neck harden them so I can eventually finish the job of turning them into 20 VAR TARG?

Very frustrating to think of all of that work going to the junk yard.

[44man]

That is a long stretch. Did you turn and ream after forming? Those necks might be way too thick.

[Bad Water Bill]

Turned the necks like the bbl mfgr recommended. (Shilen bull bbl SS 28")

The neck thickness is .013 IIRC and they are turned to that.

When I got the bbl I used range pickup for the first batch. The results were about 1/2" at 100 yards so decided to get same head stamp and go from there.

Now the neck slides into the shoulder and into the body. You have to remove the shell from the die with the neck sizing assembly stuck inside. Cut the body from the head then remove the sizing sleeve from the rod to salvage them.

[Mk42gunner]

I don't know that only one firing will harden the brass sufficiently to prevent the shoulder from collapsing when you try to neck it down the next time. You may have to fire it in a fireball chamber two or three times???

One thing I would not do is load a max load in it with the current soft necks.

Robert

[Grandpas50AE]

Ever hear of "soap rounds"? They used to do that in Viet Nam to kill rats. They would pry the bullets off, dump the powder, stick the neck in a bar of soap to get a soap plug in the case neck, then let the primer drive the soap projectile. Wonder if that would work to fire-form back to chamber dimensions?

[44man]

I have formed many cases and never annealed the shoulders. Has heat gone too low?

[MBTcustom]

The soap trick does not create near enough pressure to form the brass. It might move it a little, but you wont get a full form. If it were me, I would load 'em up with a unique charge and fireform them, and then try to use them. However, I would be keeping a sharp eye on the case length as overly soft brass stretches much faster than the hard stuff.
I realize that its a little late for advice on annealing, but after I did exactly what you have done, I started using my lead pot to do my annealing and it is working quite well. I don't have to worry about one side being softer than the other, or too soft, or not consistently soft throughout the batch, its always right. 650-700 is about right on the lead temperature to get me back to where I was 5 loads ago on hardness. I just dip the neck in the molten lead and hold it there until I feel significant heat in the base that I am holding with my bare fingers. I just pull it out of the pot and drop it in water, grab another one and the process resumes. It only takes a few seconds each.

[Bad Water Bill]

I have formed many cases and never annealed the shoulders. Has heat gone too low?

That is what I suspect.

I put the shell into a deep well socket with just the neck above the socket and the socket is in a power screwdriver.

Each shell is painted with 650 degree paint. When the paint changes color it is flipped into the water.

I am hoping to be able to fire the cases a time or 2 and re harden the brass so all of my time and the brass is not wasted.

The next problem might be since I have already turned the necks to Var Targ thin ness will they split when fired in a 221 chamber?

Not woorried about fire forming just re hardening the soft brass.

[runfiverun]

you want the 700 in the neck the shoulder should only see about 450.
you'll have to work harden the brass, take the expander out of the die and size, then open the neck with the expander.

you might could open the neck with a larger expander then resize back down to work the brass some.
if that doesn't work i would consider the brass as junk.
best i can come up with.

[GRUMPA]

If it were me I would start with a new batch, if anything I would consider them less than 100%. It just isn't worth the possibility of that "What IF" moment. When I make those I look and check everything I can, any imperfections and in the scrap bucket they go.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/162764fc93af2a4916.jpg

[220swiftfn]

Isn't the Fireball based on a .222 case????


Nevermind, thought that he was using the OTHER '06 brass (that'd be *seriously* overbore, don'tcha think????)

Anyhow, if they're soft enough to double over the neck into the case, I'd call them scrap. Next batch anneal in stages (just like the factory does) just kiss the neck/shoulder junction with the color ring so the shoulder won't crumple when you full-length. Then you can anneal again when you're done moving all that metal around so you don't get split necks.....


Dan

[chboats]

To stop the heat from getting too low I cut a 1" square of 1/2" thick sponge, and cut a 3/8" hole in the center. Wet the sponge and push it over the case to just below the shoulder. It acts as a very effective heat sink.

It slows down the process but you don't have to worry about getting too much heat into the shoulder.

Carl

[Bad Water Bill]

I have formed many cases and never annealed the shoulders. Has heat gone too low?

When you push the shoulder back about 1/2" you have to cut off a VERY long neck and your new shoulder and neck are part of what used to be the top of the original body of a military shell hence much thicker and harder to size without annealing.

The brass is inserted in a 3/8 deep well socket leaving only the neck and shoulder exposed to the heat. The deep well socket acts as a heat sink protecting the body which I do not want to soften.

The annealing coloration Never went below the shoulder. If that happened I believe it would result in a very weak body and dangerous cartridge to shoot. Dangerous in this old man's opinion.

[blackthorn]

I think R5R has the best suggestion for you to try.